I have a Ben 400 with in-mast furling and 135 genoa. On medium to strong breeze, I notice my boat slows down almost to a halt (not really) when on beam reach. The boom is opened 30 degrees (Angle of Attack), the outhaul is loosened for more shape, traveller is on windward side, sails are not luffing - but why am I not moving enough?
beam reach
- Thread starter ltinsay
- Start date
- Status
Why is the traveler on the uphill side?
I have experienced the same issue. Let the traveler down far enough to start back winding the main from the jib, than tighten up either the mainsheet or bring the traveler back up a little. Sounds like you're overpowered and heeling too much. Beam reaches are "funny things" - it seems like your sails are set right, but they're usually too over trimmed.
I have experienced the same issue. Let the traveler down far enough to start back winding the main from the jib, than tighten up either the mainsheet or bring the traveler back up a little. Sounds like you're overpowered and heeling too much. Beam reaches are "funny things" - it seems like your sails are set right, but they're usually too over trimmed.
What is the position of your rudder. are you moving the rudder to counter the effect of the boat heading windward?
More info
If the boom is out 30 degrees, trim issues related to twist shouldn't kill speed to the point of feeling like you aren't moving. What's your speed difference on close reach and beam reach in the same wind? What's the trim of your jib. Beam reach is funny because you are still powered with lift forces, not drag, but the noise and wind in your face dies down and makes things seem much calmer. I don't know your experience, but if you are very new, the difference between on the wind and beam reach can be dramatic with little difference in boat speed, just because of the apparent wind. Nope, just looked at your profile. I'm not telling you anything new. I suspect you meant the leeward side on the traveller and that I'm barking up the wrong mast entirely.
If the boom is out 30 degrees, trim issues related to twist shouldn't kill speed to the point of feeling like you aren't moving. What's your speed difference on close reach and beam reach in the same wind? What's the trim of your jib. Beam reach is funny because you are still powered with lift forces, not drag, but the noise and wind in your face dies down and makes things seem much calmer. I don't know your experience, but if you are very new, the difference between on the wind and beam reach can be dramatic with little difference in boat speed, just because of the apparent wind. Nope, just looked at your profile. I'm not telling you anything new. I suspect you meant the leeward side on the traveller and that I'm barking up the wrong mast entirely.
You need a Hobie Cat!
Put one of these little 16's on a beam reach... hike out... and you will sell your Benny! Can't help you on this one... I have the same problem with my boat. Mono hulls just won't sail... however they do tack.
Put one of these little 16's on a beam reach... hike out... and you will sell your Benny! Can't help you on this one... I have the same problem with my boat. Mono hulls just won't sail... however they do tack.
beamer
I have an OC400 with in-mast furling and a 155 genny. It screams on a 12 kt beam reach, but the key is to not overtrim the genny and the main. Use the telltales to get optimum airflow over both fails. Put the traveler slightly to windward. Set up the outhaul moderately tight. Also, I notice that this model boat gets most of its drive from the headsail, and maybe a 135 is not really big enough. Under main alone, my boat can barely get out of its own way, but under just the genny, it'll do almost as well as with the main up, too.
I have an OC400 with in-mast furling and a 155 genny. It screams on a 12 kt beam reach, but the key is to not overtrim the genny and the main. Use the telltales to get optimum airflow over both fails. Put the traveler slightly to windward. Set up the outhaul moderately tight. Also, I notice that this model boat gets most of its drive from the headsail, and maybe a 135 is not really big enough. Under main alone, my boat can barely get out of its own way, but under just the genny, it'll do almost as well as with the main up, too.
The mainsail is probably over trimmed......
put some tell tales on the leech (at just above each batten ... or where battens 'should' be on a furling main) and adust the sail in or out (preferably with the traveller). Adjust in/out until ALL the leech tell tales are streaming STRAIGHT BACK and not curling behind the main on the leeward side. You many need to adjust the halyard tension or **traveller position vs. mainsheet tension** to get the 'correct' TWIST of the sail to match the flow of the wind at differing levels up higher. Most importantly ..... For any sail to 'work' the flow of air coming off the sail at the LEECH has to be the SAME speed/velocity on both sides .... and the tell tales on the leech streaming straight back will tell you visually when this occurs .... and THAT sets the correct 'angle of attack'. (The BS taught in USA high schools and 'sailing books' about how a sail/wing works is WRONG .... use tell tales and keep it 'aerodynamically' simple.) Outhaul: Pull the outhaul TIGHT so that the sail is FLAT. FLAT sails are for FAST sailing, Full sails are for POWER sailing such as for punching through steep chop, etc. FLAT sails are for 'Speed Sailing' ..... and 'light air' sailing ... like being in 'high gear' in an automobile. Full draft (loosened outhaul) is SECOND gear ... used when needing to 'punch' through or to 'accelerate' to a higher speed. To adjust the outhaul .... ***watch your speedo*** - adjust the outhaul in/out ..... to get maximum speed (while watching the leech telltales). No guesswork, no perceived misconceptions .... just watch the speedo and tell tales!!!!! when you reach the maximum possible attainable speed by adjusting the outhaul in/out .... and the leech tell tales are STRAIGHT BACK ------- the outhaul will be set to 'perfection'. If the mainsail is not trimmed to 'perfection', the jib/genoa isnt going to have good 'upwash' flow and wont have much efficiency ... and everything falls to hell from there. A poorly set/shaped mainsail will cause the jib/genoa to be MUCH less efficient - they are a 'system' not two 'independents'. Suggest you get Don Guilettes "Sail Trim Users Guide" (here in the sailboat-owners on-line 'chandlery') or go to www.arvelgentry.com and follow the links to "magazine articles' for in-depth/technical usage of 'tell-tales'. hope this helps.
put some tell tales on the leech (at just above each batten ... or where battens 'should' be on a furling main) and adust the sail in or out (preferably with the traveller). Adjust in/out until ALL the leech tell tales are streaming STRAIGHT BACK and not curling behind the main on the leeward side. You many need to adjust the halyard tension or **traveller position vs. mainsheet tension** to get the 'correct' TWIST of the sail to match the flow of the wind at differing levels up higher. Most importantly ..... For any sail to 'work' the flow of air coming off the sail at the LEECH has to be the SAME speed/velocity on both sides .... and the tell tales on the leech streaming straight back will tell you visually when this occurs .... and THAT sets the correct 'angle of attack'. (The BS taught in USA high schools and 'sailing books' about how a sail/wing works is WRONG .... use tell tales and keep it 'aerodynamically' simple.) Outhaul: Pull the outhaul TIGHT so that the sail is FLAT. FLAT sails are for FAST sailing, Full sails are for POWER sailing such as for punching through steep chop, etc. FLAT sails are for 'Speed Sailing' ..... and 'light air' sailing ... like being in 'high gear' in an automobile. Full draft (loosened outhaul) is SECOND gear ... used when needing to 'punch' through or to 'accelerate' to a higher speed. To adjust the outhaul .... ***watch your speedo*** - adjust the outhaul in/out ..... to get maximum speed (while watching the leech telltales). No guesswork, no perceived misconceptions .... just watch the speedo and tell tales!!!!! when you reach the maximum possible attainable speed by adjusting the outhaul in/out .... and the leech tell tales are STRAIGHT BACK ------- the outhaul will be set to 'perfection'. If the mainsail is not trimmed to 'perfection', the jib/genoa isnt going to have good 'upwash' flow and wont have much efficiency ... and everything falls to hell from there. A poorly set/shaped mainsail will cause the jib/genoa to be MUCH less efficient - they are a 'system' not two 'independents'. Suggest you get Don Guilettes "Sail Trim Users Guide" (here in the sailboat-owners on-line 'chandlery') or go to www.arvelgentry.com and follow the links to "magazine articles' for in-depth/technical usage of 'tell-tales'. hope this helps.
Feels like…
I'd also question whether you are truly going slower, or just experiencing the reduced drama of a beam reach. This is the type of situation where I look at my gps (yes, something to measure speed over water would be better). I've often been surprised.
I'd also question whether you are truly going slower, or just experiencing the reduced drama of a beam reach. This is the type of situation where I look at my gps (yes, something to measure speed over water would be better). I've often been surprised.
Think about wind angles
If the apparent wind is coming off your shoulder then the mainsail luft angle of attack should be pointed at 9 or 3 o'clock no? Just like an airplane wing you have the sail stalled and it is not producing as much "lift" as it could. So how does does the main work when on a beam or broad reach you ask? It is a multi step process as there are interacting variables. For a fractional rig try this. At 0 knots boat speed your apparent and true wind angle are the same. Your sails would be lufting at this point. Pull in the boom and let the boat accelerate, pull it in a little more and let her accelerate more. Repeat pulling the sheet a few INCHES at a time till your instriments tell you you are starting to level off on speed or actually loose speed. Then halve the amount of sheet you just hauled in and you are ready for part two. Trim the jib. Using the same technique trim in the sheet till you see a drop in speed. It may take 30 seconds or more to realize the change for each small incriment. Be patient. Once the jib is trimmed, go back to the main and trim the sheet in. If this increses the speed (normal as the apparent wind is moving forward as the boat speed incresed with the jib trimming) keep doing it till you get to the highest speed. Again it may take upwards of minutes to realize a change. Be paitent. Then re-trim the jib and then the main and then the jib ...... till everything you do causes the boat to slow down. This is the gross trim. Now it is time to play with the cunningham, outhaul, halyard...... After each sail trim with these you are back to trimming the sheets again. Kinda makes having a crew to handle each item more easy to understand now doesn't it? Look up at your wind indicator and note that the angle the luft makes with it. They should be almost parallel on a fractional rig. Once you get a "best speed" write it down somehow so you don't have to go through the entire process and you can "jump ahead" to a fast trim start point. After you try this I think you will find that most sailors out there over trim all the time. I don't know why this is but it does seem to be common. For mast head rigs reverse the order of the sails.
If the apparent wind is coming off your shoulder then the mainsail luft angle of attack should be pointed at 9 or 3 o'clock no? Just like an airplane wing you have the sail stalled and it is not producing as much "lift" as it could. So how does does the main work when on a beam or broad reach you ask? It is a multi step process as there are interacting variables. For a fractional rig try this. At 0 knots boat speed your apparent and true wind angle are the same. Your sails would be lufting at this point. Pull in the boom and let the boat accelerate, pull it in a little more and let her accelerate more. Repeat pulling the sheet a few INCHES at a time till your instriments tell you you are starting to level off on speed or actually loose speed. Then halve the amount of sheet you just hauled in and you are ready for part two. Trim the jib. Using the same technique trim in the sheet till you see a drop in speed. It may take 30 seconds or more to realize the change for each small incriment. Be patient. Once the jib is trimmed, go back to the main and trim the sheet in. If this increses the speed (normal as the apparent wind is moving forward as the boat speed incresed with the jib trimming) keep doing it till you get to the highest speed. Again it may take upwards of minutes to realize a change. Be paitent. Then re-trim the jib and then the main and then the jib ...... till everything you do causes the boat to slow down. This is the gross trim. Now it is time to play with the cunningham, outhaul, halyard...... After each sail trim with these you are back to trimming the sheets again. Kinda makes having a crew to handle each item more easy to understand now doesn't it? Look up at your wind indicator and note that the angle the luft makes with it. They should be almost parallel on a fractional rig. Once you get a "best speed" write it down somehow so you don't have to go through the entire process and you can "jump ahead" to a fast trim start point. After you try this I think you will find that most sailors out there over trim all the time. I don't know why this is but it does seem to be common. For mast head rigs reverse the order of the sails.
Sail trim
Sail trim is more than adjusting your sails to a certain angle - it is also an art and one must, especially off the wind, develop a feel for it. When on your beam reach, keep a close watch on your speedo and start making adjustments. Many bring the main in too far, hence the saying, when in doubt let it out.
Sail trim is more than adjusting your sails to a certain angle - it is also an art and one must, especially off the wind, develop a feel for it. When on your beam reach, keep a close watch on your speedo and start making adjustments. Many bring the main in too far, hence the saying, when in doubt let it out.
- Status