I'm looking for some guideance on how to beach my C&C 24' for a couple of hours so that I would be able to do some work on the bottom, possibly scrape the old paint and apply a fresh botom paint. Does anyone know if there are any restrictions from the coast guard on doing this type of work? Also - I cant find any websites that describe how to beach the boat safely and what to consider during the process. My first concern is the potential improper load on the keel and it's affect on the keel bolts, etc. Thanx
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BEACH ????? KEEL ?????SAILBOAT
First off a guy down the creek from my slip did something like that during dead low tide and layed the boat on its side and cleaned and I think paint it. Someone called the DEC. Police,Its not allowed in ny. What draft do you have on your keel.
First off a guy down the creek from my slip did something like that during dead low tide and layed the boat on its side and cleaned and I think paint it. Someone called the DEC. Police,Its not allowed in ny. What draft do you have on your keel.
Be careful
Boat US in 2003, “In a Sept. 18 letter to Woodroffe the DEC agreed that a boat did not have to be located on the owner's property or leased space to permit a do-it-yourself bottom painting job. "The same is true whether the boat is located at a parking lot, beach or other non-marina area that is not owned or leased by the applicator" the letter stated.” Does this represent a change in the law? As far as beaching the boat goes just be careful to have the boat settle towards the shore so the incoming tide doesn’t flood the cockpit before she floats. Also be sure there are no big sharp things that will be under the turn of the bilge when she lies on the ground. And keep in mind that you need to collect all the sanding dust and all other debris. If the DEC catches you leaving toxic material on the ground you will be fined and forced to pay for cleanup. All the best, Robert Gainer
Boat US in 2003, “In a Sept. 18 letter to Woodroffe the DEC agreed that a boat did not have to be located on the owner's property or leased space to permit a do-it-yourself bottom painting job. "The same is true whether the boat is located at a parking lot, beach or other non-marina area that is not owned or leased by the applicator" the letter stated.” Does this represent a change in the law? As far as beaching the boat goes just be careful to have the boat settle towards the shore so the incoming tide doesn’t flood the cockpit before she floats. Also be sure there are no big sharp things that will be under the turn of the bilge when she lies on the ground. And keep in mind that you need to collect all the sanding dust and all other debris. If the DEC catches you leaving toxic material on the ground you will be fined and forced to pay for cleanup. All the best, Robert Gainer
Too much trouble
It'll cost $300 bucks for a haul and a couple of days dry storage work space. Way better than trying to wrestle with waves, laws, rocks and uncertainty. By the way, it'll take much longer than a couple of hours to do a bottom job on a 24. Also you'll need a power sander which requires 120V.
It'll cost $300 bucks for a haul and a couple of days dry storage work space. Way better than trying to wrestle with waves, laws, rocks and uncertainty. By the way, it'll take much longer than a couple of hours to do a bottom job on a 24. Also you'll need a power sander which requires 120V.
Jeff, how are that cheap
to not spend 300 buck for a short hall. Boats are all about spending money. If you don't have it you should not be boating. You are risking damaging you boat.
to not spend 300 buck for a short hall. Boats are all about spending money. If you don't have it you should not be boating. You are risking damaging you boat.
beaching
I appreciate the cost issues and am well aware that the haul is approx $300. I was more interested in whether this can be done, what are the considerations and whether this is legal. At a minimum, I was hoping to replace the thru-hull which is a near term project and worry about the paint towards the latter part of the season. Accordingly, I didnt really want to haul the boat twice.
I appreciate the cost issues and am well aware that the haul is approx $300. I was more interested in whether this can be done, what are the considerations and whether this is legal. At a minimum, I was hoping to replace the thru-hull which is a near term project and worry about the paint towards the latter part of the season. Accordingly, I didnt really want to haul the boat twice.
Tony
This is a common practice in other part of the world for boats with one keel - folks here seem to have some problem with it but suspect that attitude is more a function of unfamiliarity than substance. As long as you have the weight distribution correct, boats typically sit on their keel on the hard all winter in the northern part of the US so obviously, this isn't an issue. A bulkhead adjacent to a sandy bottom is ideal so as to preclude the boat from heeling over too much. Notwithstanding any local ordinance prohibitions, it shouldn't be a problem but you might want to find someone with experience to help. By the way, $300 for a short haul is a bargain...
This is a common practice in other part of the world for boats with one keel - folks here seem to have some problem with it but suspect that attitude is more a function of unfamiliarity than substance. As long as you have the weight distribution correct, boats typically sit on their keel on the hard all winter in the northern part of the US so obviously, this isn't an issue. A bulkhead adjacent to a sandy bottom is ideal so as to preclude the boat from heeling over too much. Notwithstanding any local ordinance prohibitions, it shouldn't be a problem but you might want to find someone with experience to help. By the way, $300 for a short haul is a bargain...
Hmmm ...
practical considerations... What is the draft of the boat? What is the tidal range? From this you can estimate the number of hours available to complete the job. Say the boat draws 6 feet and the tidal range is 9 feet every 12 hours. You beach the boat at high tide - 1 hour or 1.5 feet (to insure that you can get off on the next high tide). It will take about 4 hours for the tide to drop 6 feet, for a total of 5 hours. The tide will fall for one more hour before it starts to rise again. You will have 2 hours with the boat high and dry to change that through hull ... If you start the job standing in 1.5 feet of water and finish standing in 1.5 feet of water you have 4 hours to change the through hull. Do you KNOW that you can get the through hull changed in that time? Can you to it with the boat heeled 30+ degrees laying on it's side? If something does not go smoothly, what are you going to do about the hole in your boat when the tide rises? You are betting your boat on your ability to get the job done in a short time. Will failing to complete the job and sinking your boat be more or less costly than hauling it out and doing the job in the yard? If you are confident and willing to take the risk to save $300, go for it.
practical considerations... What is the draft of the boat? What is the tidal range? From this you can estimate the number of hours available to complete the job. Say the boat draws 6 feet and the tidal range is 9 feet every 12 hours. You beach the boat at high tide - 1 hour or 1.5 feet (to insure that you can get off on the next high tide). It will take about 4 hours for the tide to drop 6 feet, for a total of 5 hours. The tide will fall for one more hour before it starts to rise again. You will have 2 hours with the boat high and dry to change that through hull ... If you start the job standing in 1.5 feet of water and finish standing in 1.5 feet of water you have 4 hours to change the through hull. Do you KNOW that you can get the through hull changed in that time? Can you to it with the boat heeled 30+ degrees laying on it's side? If something does not go smoothly, what are you going to do about the hole in your boat when the tide rises? You are betting your boat on your ability to get the job done in a short time. Will failing to complete the job and sinking your boat be more or less costly than hauling it out and doing the job in the yard? If you are confident and willing to take the risk to save $300, go for it.
Any environmental concerns about scraping paint...
sealer material, and any other debree into the water? I do not know if boat yards simply rinse stuff into the water...or do they have process the water before dumping it.
sealer material, and any other debree into the water? I do not know if boat yards simply rinse stuff into the water...or do they have process the water before dumping it.
Last summer Nancy had the helm and we
were sailing in winds that charitably could be called light and variable. The wind went to a flat glassy calm and we gently drifted aground on the side of the channel. Nancy was terribly afraid that we were going to damage the boat by hitting the bottom at a half knot. I explained that the boat spent the entire winter resting on her keel and propped up with jack stands just to keep her from falling over. In the days of large sailing ships it was common to careen them for bottom work. This involved rigging a heavy tackle to the mast head and heeving the ship onto her beam ends. If you risk damage by deliberately grounding and drying out then you will surely destroy your boat in an accidental grounding with any speed.
were sailing in winds that charitably could be called light and variable. The wind went to a flat glassy calm and we gently drifted aground on the side of the channel. Nancy was terribly afraid that we were going to damage the boat by hitting the bottom at a half knot. I explained that the boat spent the entire winter resting on her keel and propped up with jack stands just to keep her from falling over. In the days of large sailing ships it was common to careen them for bottom work. This involved rigging a heavy tackle to the mast head and heeving the ship onto her beam ends. If you risk damage by deliberately grounding and drying out then you will surely destroy your boat in an accidental grounding with any speed.
Personally, I don't see why not.
As long as you don't leave anything behind, to give someone any reason to complain. That way next time you want to do it. You can. The land between high and low tide is public property. I know in Maine they have 12 foot tides and I have seen sailboats beached there for repairs. I know I have beached several sailboats before, though, just to save them from the stone wall and rocks. In Europe, it's done. And these are big 30 to 40 ft sailboats. Folks don't do it here because of the availability of lifts. I have seen where the beached side is propped up, using poles. I have seen pictures in magazines years ago showing the sailboats in Europe almost completely vertical, with people coming and going. Like it's the normal thing to do. I know, I have thought about doing things along this line, many times. It's always been in the back of my mind. Especially because there's sooo much room in there. Seriously though, I see nothing wrong with it. Just check out your beach carefully. I'd even contemplate using land stanchions with some sort of plywood on the bottom. Just so the stanchion doesn't settle into the sea floor. They adjust and would probably work fine. Maybe someone from Europe will chime in and give us some pointers on this practice. Good luck and take pictures for us. Keep us updated. Keep it up, Ctskip
As long as you don't leave anything behind, to give someone any reason to complain. That way next time you want to do it. You can. The land between high and low tide is public property. I know in Maine they have 12 foot tides and I have seen sailboats beached there for repairs. I know I have beached several sailboats before, though, just to save them from the stone wall and rocks. In Europe, it's done. And these are big 30 to 40 ft sailboats. Folks don't do it here because of the availability of lifts. I have seen where the beached side is propped up, using poles. I have seen pictures in magazines years ago showing the sailboats in Europe almost completely vertical, with people coming and going. Like it's the normal thing to do. I know, I have thought about doing things along this line, many times. It's always been in the back of my mind. Especially because there's sooo much room in there. Seriously though, I see nothing wrong with it. Just check out your beach carefully. I'd even contemplate using land stanchions with some sort of plywood on the bottom. Just so the stanchion doesn't settle into the sea floor. They adjust and would probably work fine. Maybe someone from Europe will chime in and give us some pointers on this practice. Good luck and take pictures for us. Keep us updated. Keep it up, Ctskip
Moody has a good point
Careening your boat on the shoreline as it is called will only offer you a limitied window of time to do the work you say is needed. In this day and age I would not recommend that you do this. There are CG RIB inflatables with machine guns mounted patrolling most of the NYC waterways that would be most interested in your activities not to mention nosy reighbors with cell phones who will call 911 or 311. The tidal range in south Brooklyn's bays is about 5 feet which may not allow your keel to be entirely dry and workable/paintable. If you just broke down and did the short haul for the bottom painting AND took care of the thru hull issue all at once you could save yourself some money that way. In fact, I prefer to have my boat hauled out every winter so the hull material can dry thoroughly before any new paint is applied. You will also want to power spray the bottom to get the marine growth off and then that needs to dry. I suggest that you will do a much better job on your bottom if you take the time to do it right, on land with shore power available. In the old days when they did careen their boats the bottoms were likely sheathed in thin copper sheets which could be repaired quickly with hammer, nails and new copper sheeting.
Careening your boat on the shoreline as it is called will only offer you a limitied window of time to do the work you say is needed. In this day and age I would not recommend that you do this. There are CG RIB inflatables with machine guns mounted patrolling most of the NYC waterways that would be most interested in your activities not to mention nosy reighbors with cell phones who will call 911 or 311. The tidal range in south Brooklyn's bays is about 5 feet which may not allow your keel to be entirely dry and workable/paintable. If you just broke down and did the short haul for the bottom painting AND took care of the thru hull issue all at once you could save yourself some money that way. In fact, I prefer to have my boat hauled out every winter so the hull material can dry thoroughly before any new paint is applied. You will also want to power spray the bottom to get the marine growth off and then that needs to dry. I suggest that you will do a much better job on your bottom if you take the time to do it right, on land with shore power available. In the old days when they did careen their boats the bottoms were likely sheathed in thin copper sheets which could be repaired quickly with hammer, nails and new copper sheeting.
Keep Our Waters Clean
All of our water Ways are polluted already what the hell it can't hurt. I am glad I don't go swimming in brooklyn any more or Oklahoma.
All of our water Ways are polluted already what the hell it can't hurt. I am glad I don't go swimming in brooklyn any more or Oklahoma.
Careenng the hull
Scubbing the bottom is entirely possible, though it will take most of two tide cycles to do both sides. Painting is a completely different issue, and I'd not risk it on a beach. I wouldn't want people out there dripping and spilling paint on the beach. Do unto others, you know. And betting your boat that you will be able to change out a thru-hull? This just isn't wise. There's a saying: "Penny wise, dollar foolish." If I see you on the five o'clock news, I'll know what your decision was. Jeff
Scubbing the bottom is entirely possible, though it will take most of two tide cycles to do both sides. Painting is a completely different issue, and I'd not risk it on a beach. I wouldn't want people out there dripping and spilling paint on the beach. Do unto others, you know. And betting your boat that you will be able to change out a thru-hull? This just isn't wise. There's a saying: "Penny wise, dollar foolish." If I see you on the five o'clock news, I'll know what your decision was. Jeff
You guys are forgetting something!
From the posts, the assumption is generally, to just wait for the tide to fall and start painting. My experience is that the procedure is harder. First, the moss, algae, barnacles, etc., must be scraped off. You have to wait for it to completely dry before you start painting. You may want a barrier coat to seal the bottom before the bottom paint goes on. Then, generally, the boat heels over on one side, so you can't paint the other side, which may get caked with mud. My guess is that, to do the job right would take a minimum of 6 tide cycles, assuming the tide in your area is deep enough to handle the entire hull. I would just pay the $300 and have it done in a couple of hours. Another way, get a trailer and paint it there. Lots of pros do it that way.8P4P
From the posts, the assumption is generally, to just wait for the tide to fall and start painting. My experience is that the procedure is harder. First, the moss, algae, barnacles, etc., must be scraped off. You have to wait for it to completely dry before you start painting. You may want a barrier coat to seal the bottom before the bottom paint goes on. Then, generally, the boat heels over on one side, so you can't paint the other side, which may get caked with mud. My guess is that, to do the job right would take a minimum of 6 tide cycles, assuming the tide in your area is deep enough to handle the entire hull. I would just pay the $300 and have it done in a couple of hours. Another way, get a trailer and paint it there. Lots of pros do it that way.8P4P
how about...
...a tidal grid? We have some up here in Vancouver. Float onto designated tidal grid, secure the boat alongside the dock, have a beer or two and wait for the tide to go out. Boat sits upright on its keel. You can powerwash, let it dry, paint, and be done in less than a day! Cost: about $50.
...a tidal grid? We have some up here in Vancouver. Float onto designated tidal grid, secure the boat alongside the dock, have a beer or two and wait for the tide to go out. Boat sits upright on its keel. You can powerwash, let it dry, paint, and be done in less than a day! Cost: about $50.
Waffle is an A**
I can't belive everyone on this thread let waffle get away with his comment. " to not spend 300 buck for a short hall. Boats are all about spending money. If you don't have it you should not be boating." Thats total crap. The waters are free, the winds are free, and if then you can haul out for free go for it. Waffle's comment is rude and insulting. While some may have plenty of money and afford to pay for what ever their heart desires, some of us are more limited. We have just as much right to acces the water ways. If you ask me, we have more right because we are true sailors, we depend on our selves and our abilities, we don't always hire some one or pay top dollar. We improvise, ask advice, and figure things out for our selves. Sailing is not about money and there is no cover charge to try (other than courtesy). Waffle, don't insult people with lower means than you, maybe you should just buy a power boat, but make sure you hire a captain so you don't come plowing thru my anchorage.
I can't belive everyone on this thread let waffle get away with his comment. " to not spend 300 buck for a short hall. Boats are all about spending money. If you don't have it you should not be boating." Thats total crap. The waters are free, the winds are free, and if then you can haul out for free go for it. Waffle's comment is rude and insulting. While some may have plenty of money and afford to pay for what ever their heart desires, some of us are more limited. We have just as much right to acces the water ways. If you ask me, we have more right because we are true sailors, we depend on our selves and our abilities, we don't always hire some one or pay top dollar. We improvise, ask advice, and figure things out for our selves. Sailing is not about money and there is no cover charge to try (other than courtesy). Waffle, don't insult people with lower means than you, maybe you should just buy a power boat, but make sure you hire a captain so you don't come plowing thru my anchorage.
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