I have four 6-volt batteries and one 12-volt battery mounted in the starboard lazerette. They are very crowded, which discourages proper maintenance. I'm looking for alternative mounting locations. Any suggestions?
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Bilge?
Hi Bob, I have seen some large batteries in the bilge of the H37C. Plenty of room, especially if you relocate the shower sump. I kept mine where yours are located. But I went with Gels when I bought the boat because I did not ever want to go back down there. Since then I have replaced the starter gel with an AGM. Then I added the starter gel to the house bank, now over 300 Ah with three gels. Two are on the hull under the icebox(one AGM, one Gel). The other two are on the shelf behihd the icebox. I wanted to keep the batteries there because all the #2 cables are shortest and my Link 2000 wiring and inverter/charger are all in there. The picture is before I added the third gel. It sits right beside the one you see there.
Hi Bob, I have seen some large batteries in the bilge of the H37C. Plenty of room, especially if you relocate the shower sump. I kept mine where yours are located. But I went with Gels when I bought the boat because I did not ever want to go back down there. Since then I have replaced the starter gel with an AGM. Then I added the starter gel to the house bank, now over 300 Ah with three gels. Two are on the hull under the icebox(one AGM, one Gel). The other two are on the shelf behihd the icebox. I wanted to keep the batteries there because all the #2 cables are shortest and my Link 2000 wiring and inverter/charger are all in there. The picture is before I added the third gel. It sits right beside the one you see there.
Attachments
Under cabin sole
I glassed in a couple of stringers, screwed down a plywood shelf and located my 'house' bank (2 x Gr 24 - soon to be 3 x Gr 24 or ~ 210 Amp/hrs)under the cabin sole; see attached link. There is still about a foot of bilge below the battery shelf. Gets the weight where you want it and makes battery maintenance easier to boot. I left a group 30 starting battery in the cockpit locker.
I glassed in a couple of stringers, screwed down a plywood shelf and located my 'house' bank (2 x Gr 24 - soon to be 3 x Gr 24 or ~ 210 Amp/hrs)under the cabin sole; see attached link. There is still about a foot of bilge below the battery shelf. Gets the weight where you want it and makes battery maintenance easier to boot. I left a group 30 starting battery in the cockpit locker.
Just Completed Mine
Just completed my battery upgrade. Installed (2) Trojan T-105's on the lower shelf amidship of the refer, accessable from the cockpit. Installed (2) T-105's in the Bilge just aft of the mast. Previous owner had (2) Grp. 27's in compartment's under the cabin sole which I replaced. This gives me 680 A/Hr's for my house bank. Starting battery is mounted in the bottom of the aft galley cabinet. Also installed new Blue Sea digital meters to monitor everything. Made all my own battery trays from starboard as all these locations were very tight. Use Hydrocaps, I check my water levels about twice a year. Charles S/V Destiny
Just completed my battery upgrade. Installed (2) Trojan T-105's on the lower shelf amidship of the refer, accessable from the cockpit. Installed (2) T-105's in the Bilge just aft of the mast. Previous owner had (2) Grp. 27's in compartment's under the cabin sole which I replaced. This gives me 680 A/Hr's for my house bank. Starting battery is mounted in the bottom of the aft galley cabinet. Also installed new Blue Sea digital meters to monitor everything. Made all my own battery trays from starboard as all these locations were very tight. Use Hydrocaps, I check my water levels about twice a year. Charles S/V Destiny
Charles, any photos available...
or perhaps a photoforum layout of your battery installations in the near future ? Richard S/V Rhapsodie
or perhaps a photoforum layout of your battery installations in the near future ? Richard S/V Rhapsodie
under the nav table
It is still a work in progress but i built a shelf under the nav table and mounted 4 6v golf batteries under there and used an echo charger to charge the starting batt that i mounted in the engine compartment just forward of the engine (I repowered a year and a half ago and moved the engine back a bit) i will try to attach a picture here but not sure if the file is to big it you are interested i can be contacted at 1keladi@comcast.net and will sent pictures direct chet
It is still a work in progress but i built a shelf under the nav table and mounted 4 6v golf batteries under there and used an echo charger to charge the starting batt that i mounted in the engine compartment just forward of the engine (I repowered a year and a half ago and moved the engine back a bit) i will try to attach a picture here but not sure if the file is to big it you are interested i can be contacted at 1keladi@comcast.net and will sent pictures direct chet
more pictures
I will try to get to the boat today or tomorrow to take more pictures with the batteries installed. works fine just a but of a chore to check the liquid levels but with a mirror i can see in the tops and top off as necessary
I will try to get to the boat today or tomorrow to take more pictures with the batteries installed. works fine just a but of a chore to check the liquid levels but with a mirror i can see in the tops and top off as necessary
680 Ah at 6 V .....
only equals about 340 Ah at 12 V.... Still quite a respectable capacity but not out of the ordinary for a 37 ft sailing vessel. It is not clear to me why the civilian battery industry keeps referring to Amp hrs, thereby always creating a lot of confusion. It probably goes back to the fact that they are still oriented to the start battery market (where amperage instead of power or energy is the overriding performance parameter). Instead, most military batteries now appear to be labeled in Watt hrs (or kiloWatt hrs). This makes it straightforward to sum and subtract battery capacities in complex DC power systems. Flying Dutchman
only equals about 340 Ah at 12 V.... Still quite a respectable capacity but not out of the ordinary for a 37 ft sailing vessel. It is not clear to me why the civilian battery industry keeps referring to Amp hrs, thereby always creating a lot of confusion. It probably goes back to the fact that they are still oriented to the start battery market (where amperage instead of power or energy is the overriding performance parameter). Instead, most military batteries now appear to be labeled in Watt hrs (or kiloWatt hrs). This makes it straightforward to sum and subtract battery capacities in complex DC power systems. Flying Dutchman
T-105's
Maybe I did my math wrong, but one T-105 is rated for 225 Amp Hours (20 hour rate) at 6 volts. I have two paired in series to equal 12 Volts with 225 A/Hr's. I have two sets of these T-105's equaling 450 A/Hr's along with two Grp. 27 batteries rated at 115 A/Hr's each at 12 volts. Please correct me if this is wrong but I have a total of (4) T-105's and (2) Grp. 27's in my house bank. I'll try to take some photo's next weekend and post them. Charles S/V Destiny
Maybe I did my math wrong, but one T-105 is rated for 225 Amp Hours (20 hour rate) at 6 volts. I have two paired in series to equal 12 Volts with 225 A/Hr's. I have two sets of these T-105's equaling 450 A/Hr's along with two Grp. 27 batteries rated at 115 A/Hr's each at 12 volts. Please correct me if this is wrong but I have a total of (4) T-105's and (2) Grp. 27's in my house bank. I'll try to take some photo's next weekend and post them. Charles S/V Destiny
Your math appears to be flawless, Charles!
You DO have 680 Ah in your house batteries at 12V and that IS a whole lot for any Hunter. Not that it is a bad thing to have that much battery capacity, of course, other than with regard to space and weight considerations. My sincere apologies for jumping in there with my big mouth and not checking all the posts carefully first. I did not read beyond the T-105's..... Having two sets of very different house batteries plus, apparently, one or two starter batteries, creates the need for a battery charger set-up with several independent output channels. I am curious to see how you are handling that. Besides the promised photographs could you perhaps post a diagram of the overall hook-up or just describe the charging arrangements in more detail? Flying Dutchman
You DO have 680 Ah in your house batteries at 12V and that IS a whole lot for any Hunter. Not that it is a bad thing to have that much battery capacity, of course, other than with regard to space and weight considerations. My sincere apologies for jumping in there with my big mouth and not checking all the posts carefully first. I did not read beyond the T-105's..... Having two sets of very different house batteries plus, apparently, one or two starter batteries, creates the need for a battery charger set-up with several independent output channels. I am curious to see how you are handling that. Besides the promised photographs could you perhaps post a diagram of the overall hook-up or just describe the charging arrangements in more detail? Flying Dutchman
Work In Progress
Currently I have a 80 Amp internally regulated Alternator running through a Battery Isolator, but I have a new 100 Amp dual output Balmar Alternator with ARS-4 Regulator and the new Digital Duo at home waiting to be installed. The Digital Duo piggybacks on one of the 100 Amp outputs of the alternator and sends 15 Amps to the starting battery with seperate (4) stage charging. My house bank is seperated into two banks that I can isolate or combine as needed. For instance if (God Forbid) I have high water in the bilge and the bilge batteries short out. Most of the time I leave them combined into one bank. The 110 charger is a Heart 1500 Inverter/charger with Echo Charger installed for the starting battery. As you might have guessed I enjoy working on the boat almost as much as sailing her. Charles S/V Destiny
Currently I have a 80 Amp internally regulated Alternator running through a Battery Isolator, but I have a new 100 Amp dual output Balmar Alternator with ARS-4 Regulator and the new Digital Duo at home waiting to be installed. The Digital Duo piggybacks on one of the 100 Amp outputs of the alternator and sends 15 Amps to the starting battery with seperate (4) stage charging. My house bank is seperated into two banks that I can isolate or combine as needed. For instance if (God Forbid) I have high water in the bilge and the bilge batteries short out. Most of the time I leave them combined into one bank. The 110 charger is a Heart 1500 Inverter/charger with Echo Charger installed for the starting battery. As you might have guessed I enjoy working on the boat almost as much as sailing her. Charles S/V Destiny
Cold cranking vs Amph Hours Ah
The average auto battery has about 40 to 65 Ah. thats one amp for 40 hours. or ten amps for 4 hours. the normal deepcycle marine im sure has more ah's. The ability of a battery to deliver 10 or 200or mor cranking amps for a few seconds in turning over the engine is not to be misunderstood as it is cold cranking amps only and not Amp Hours.
The average auto battery has about 40 to 65 Ah. thats one amp for 40 hours. or ten amps for 4 hours. the normal deepcycle marine im sure has more ah's. The ability of a battery to deliver 10 or 200or mor cranking amps for a few seconds in turning over the engine is not to be misunderstood as it is cold cranking amps only and not Amp Hours.
Sea water and battery
If you put your batterys in the bilge and you start taking on seawater, isn't that dangerous?
If you put your batterys in the bilge and you start taking on seawater, isn't that dangerous?
sea water and batteries
Sea water and batteries?....hummmmm? My guess is that sulfuric acid and sea water would not be an "explosive" mixture, however, The batteries would be probably be ruined if salt water got into the electrolyte. Sulfuric acid would also slowly creep into the bilge and corrode all the metal. None of that is good but probably not life-threatening. Thats's why I have 2 electric and 2 manual bilge pumps. For the batteries to be flooded would mean that the cabin sole would be awash. In other words, you've got bigger (life-threatening) problems. Everything is a trade-off. Just my opinion. You guys tell me if I'm wrong before I get 100 nm offshore.
Sea water and batteries?....hummmmm? My guess is that sulfuric acid and sea water would not be an "explosive" mixture, however, The batteries would be probably be ruined if salt water got into the electrolyte. Sulfuric acid would also slowly creep into the bilge and corrode all the metal. None of that is good but probably not life-threatening. Thats's why I have 2 electric and 2 manual bilge pumps. For the batteries to be flooded would mean that the cabin sole would be awash. In other words, you've got bigger (life-threatening) problems. Everything is a trade-off. Just my opinion. You guys tell me if I'm wrong before I get 100 nm offshore.
It's not the sea water in the acid...
that is the problem. It's the conductivity of salt water across the battery terminals that will short the battery in a heart beat let alone the possibility of starting a fire. Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop
that is the problem. It's the conductivity of salt water across the battery terminals that will short the battery in a heart beat let alone the possibility of starting a fire. Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop
ok im still undecided
I am concidering moving my batteries under the floor too. How many of you have had water up to the floor in the bildge? thats a hell of a puddle of water in a 37c. im try ing to weigh the disavantages of each idea. I use the area under my nav station and the batters dont get enough attention way down in the bildge i dont want the weight aft in the lazzerete so that leaves the floor!
I am concidering moving my batteries under the floor too. How many of you have had water up to the floor in the bildge? thats a hell of a puddle of water in a 37c. im try ing to weigh the disavantages of each idea. I use the area under my nav station and the batters dont get enough attention way down in the bildge i dont want the weight aft in the lazzerete so that leaves the floor!
Ed, just use AGM batteries in the bilge
Not only are AGM(Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries completely closed-off and maintenance-free, they are very resistant to damage through accidental or deliberate deep discharge and can be re-charged pretty much the same way as conventional ("flooded") lead-acid batteries. In other words, you will not need the special charge settings and babycare procedures of gel cells. Perhaps the most interesting characteristic of AGMs is their ability not only to survive accidental submersion but even to keep working when completely submerged in fresh or salt water (as long as the salt concentrations are not quite as high as in the Dead Sea or the Great Salt Lake here in Utah
)). Rumor has it that they were originallt developed for the US Marine's amphibious or landing vehicles. We have used AGMs for about 4 or 5 years now and are quite happy with their performance. Finally: Yes, the bilge is absolutely the right place to keep your AGM batteries from a performance standpoint, as it helps keep your center of gravity as low as possible and lets you make optimum use of otherwise largely wasted space. Just be VERY careful when you open a floor board when underway that NOTHING METAL can slide around on the floor and,inevitably, find its way on top of the batteries in the bilge (unless it happens to be the 4th of July, perhaps). Have fun! Flying Dutchman
Not only are AGM(Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries completely closed-off and maintenance-free, they are very resistant to damage through accidental or deliberate deep discharge and can be re-charged pretty much the same way as conventional ("flooded") lead-acid batteries. In other words, you will not need the special charge settings and babycare procedures of gel cells. Perhaps the most interesting characteristic of AGMs is their ability not only to survive accidental submersion but even to keep working when completely submerged in fresh or salt water (as long as the salt concentrations are not quite as high as in the Dead Sea or the Great Salt Lake here in Utah
)). Rumor has it that they were originallt developed for the US Marine's amphibious or landing vehicles. We have used AGMs for about 4 or 5 years now and are quite happy with their performance. Finally: Yes, the bilge is absolutely the right place to keep your AGM batteries from a performance standpoint, as it helps keep your center of gravity as low as possible and lets you make optimum use of otherwise largely wasted space. Just be VERY careful when you open a floor board when underway that NOTHING METAL can slide around on the floor and,inevitably, find its way on top of the batteries in the bilge (unless it happens to be the 4th of July, perhaps). Have fun! Flying DutchmanChlorine Gas
Maybe one of the Chemistry majors can back me up out there, but Sulfuric Acid and sea water mixed with an electrical current creates Chlorine gas. Any of you war movie buffs might recall the World War 2 submarine movies where the sub takes on sea water (Damage from depth charges) and when it reaches the batteries (lead acid) it begins producing Chlorine gas. Another excellent reason to have a good high water bilge alarm. If water in my bilge is high enough to reach the top of my two T-105's mounted there it is only about 6-8" from reaching the terminals of all my batteries. To get this high it must overrun three electric bilge pumps, a high water alarm, and one manual bilge pump. Might be a good time to call for asisstance. P.S.Chlorine gas is very dangerous, but it has a very distinct odor. Charles S/V Destiny
Maybe one of the Chemistry majors can back me up out there, but Sulfuric Acid and sea water mixed with an electrical current creates Chlorine gas. Any of you war movie buffs might recall the World War 2 submarine movies where the sub takes on sea water (Damage from depth charges) and when it reaches the batteries (lead acid) it begins producing Chlorine gas. Another excellent reason to have a good high water bilge alarm. If water in my bilge is high enough to reach the top of my two T-105's mounted there it is only about 6-8" from reaching the terminals of all my batteries. To get this high it must overrun three electric bilge pumps, a high water alarm, and one manual bilge pump. Might be a good time to call for asisstance. P.S.Chlorine gas is very dangerous, but it has a very distinct odor. Charles S/V Destiny
Nah, that's just urban legend
To make chlorine gas by electrolysis can indeed be done at (or even below) 12 Volt DC but requires the sodium chloride to be in the form of a pure, molten salt..... Electrolysis of sodium chloride dissolved in water produces sodium hydroxide and hydrogen chloride which are harmless in very high dilution and will largely recombine to make sodium chloride and water again in higher concentrations. The military can be pretty inept at times but I do not think they would have sponsored the development of fully immersable AGMs if there was any danger of producing extremely toxic chlorine gas. Flying Dutchman
To make chlorine gas by electrolysis can indeed be done at (or even below) 12 Volt DC but requires the sodium chloride to be in the form of a pure, molten salt..... Electrolysis of sodium chloride dissolved in water produces sodium hydroxide and hydrogen chloride which are harmless in very high dilution and will largely recombine to make sodium chloride and water again in higher concentrations. The military can be pretty inept at times but I do not think they would have sponsored the development of fully immersable AGMs if there was any danger of producing extremely toxic chlorine gas. Flying Dutchman
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