Battery Installation

Oct 30, 2019
574
Happy New Year!

Does anyone have some pictures or photos of their battery
installation? I've been re-working all of the electrical this year.
I recently finished pulling new wire, installing the DC Panel (thanks,
Steve B), shutoff switch, and ACR. Its now time to make a final
decision on the placement of the batteries.

My preference is to leave them in the bilge where the weight is
centered. However, I'm interested in any ideas about where batteries
are located and how they are secured. If you've put them in a locker,
have you noticed any change in performance or handling? Did you glass
in a support for the batteries in the locker, or simply epoxy-in or
screw in something?

Thanks,
Jack
 
Oct 31, 2019
163
Hi Jack,

I've no pictures I'm afraid and sadly the boats 2000 miles away, but:

We have two 100 amp/hr domestic batteries in the shallow bilge, to get them in I extended the rear of this compartment (ply/timber glassed in) about 5 inches over the main bilge and as the compartment narrows back there I have the rear battery chocked up on a bit of 4x 2" timber; whilst the batteries are not 'secured' within the compartment, we do have strongback bars fitted to the two covers in cabin sole which can be swung around and locked to prevent the covers lifting in the event of a rollover - we've actually only secured them about twice in five years.

The starter battery is locacated in the engine bay, on the starboard side about 18" from the back of the compartment; there's a reasonably flat fibreglass moulding there for it to sit on and then a 14" length of 3x1.5" timber has been notched to fit tightly over it and said timber is bolted back to the plywood engine bay/cockpit locker division to secure it firmly in place - use wing nuts on the securing bolts for ease of removal and use 1.5 not 2" thick timber (as I did originally) or you will have to remove the timber securing bar whenever you want to check battery electrolite levels.

Works for us,
Bob & Lesley
Spring Fever 1776
 
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
I read in Ocean Navigator that the newest type batteries can survive submerging and will even continue to put out power under water. The present location of batteries in the Vega is extremely good
for weight distribution (both low and away from the ends), the only downside being vulnerability to submergence. Were I outfitting for blue water, I'd think about replacing my standard type batteries with the type that can survive being submerged. Having done that, I do not think I'd relocate the batteries or locate another battery in a locker.

Having said that, immediately abaft the rudder post seems like a pretty good spot for a battery locker, though small.

Nicholas Walsh
Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial Street
Portland Maine 04101
Tel. 207/772-2191
fax 207/774-3940

This email was sent from the law firm of Nicholas H. Walsh P.A. It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect that you were not intended to receive this email, please delete it and notify us as soon as possible. Thank you.
From: j.hunter9999
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 8:15 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Battery InstallationAny thoughts on this?
 
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
Jack,
My battery renewal is covered in message #13425, with links to a
couple of pictures. I believe in keeping them in the original
location, using them as ballast. I think if you get water over the
tops of the batteries you have a lot more serious problems to worry
about than a battery replacement!
If you search the archives there's quite a bit on battery locations.
Cheers!
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
Oct 31, 2019
562
I guess my Vega is one of the earlier built boats- my number is 257'
I have 3 batteries; two in the bilge,one is covered by the floor, the other one by the bilge cover. The third one is right behind the ice-box, secured by straps. I had to build a floor; this battery is also safely secured.
All batteries have + and - shot-offs. In other words, when I'm away and charging, any battery being charged is connected only by the
wires from the charger to the battery. Saves a lot of headaches about electrolysis. The positive switch is for 'both', 'left', 'right', or 'none' connected to the engine.
The 2 batteries in the bilge are for the engine; the 3rd one for interior lights (and no connection to the 1st and 2nd)
Wilhelm, V-257
 
Oct 31, 2019
303
I agree, if you have water completely flooding your batteries you do have
more serious thing to worry about.

On batteries -- AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries will work underwater
upside down, on deck or wherever, and not short out or leak. They need no
care. They were originally designed for the F-18 fighter jet by the Concorde
Battery Company, but others make them now.

The other sealed battery is the Gel and I wouldn't recommend those as they
are a little more sensitive to voltage and actually run at a lower voltage
than the AGM - they charge the same as a flooded battery. AGMs actually have
a longer life than flooded - but they cost more.

Interesting that someone else extended the battery shelf in the bilge. I am
doing the same and have three Optimus Blue batteries there - since Optimus
is a smaller footprint they fit even though the cavity narrows. They each
put out about 50 Amps as I recall. I like them since they are relatively
light. I don't have an engine start battery since it seems a waste. I just
have one bank - I do carry a jump battery though - this also gives me a
source of portable power that I find handy. If I ever lost the battery bank
I could still start the engine. But I monitor the batteries very, very
carefully and always keep them at a 75% charge - well I try to - I never let
them get below 12.6 volts or so. Optimus batteries come in three cases - red
for starting, yellow for heavy duty, and blue for marine (these use
stainless hardware). There are several brands of AGM that look like a
traditional battery and they are available at marine stores (however go to a
wholesale/retail battery place for better selection, price, and advice).

Optimus batteries are a different shape in that they use a coiled up plate
or something like that. They are more expensive. However I always keep my
eye out and found a dealer who sells 2nds or blems. They are fine
mechanically just have a case that is a little distressed. My son-in-law was
manager of a wholesale/retail battery distributer and he says they are as
good as the others. The blems cost me less than I can get regular Optimus at
wholesale.


From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Nico Walsh
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:07 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Battery Installation

I read in Ocean Navigator that the newest type batteries can survive
submerging and will even continue to put out power under water. The present
location of batteries in the Vega is extremely good
for weight distribution (both low and away from the ends), the only downside
being vulnerability to submergence. Were I outfitting for blue water, I'd
think about replacing my standard type batteries with the type that can
survive being submerged. Having done that, I do not think I'd relocate the
batteries or locate another battery in a locker.

Having said that, immediately abaft the rudder post seems like a pretty good
spot for a battery locker, though small.

Nicholas Walsh
Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial Street
Portland Maine 04101
Tel. 207/772-2191
fax 207/774-3940

This email was sent from the law firm of Nicholas H. Walsh P.A. It may
contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect that
you were not intended to receive this email, please delete it and notify us
as soon as possible. Thank you.

From: j.hunter9999
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 8:15 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com mailto:AlbinVega%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Battery Installation

Any thoughts on this?
 
Oct 31, 2019
562
I guess this is possible (precluding the wire connection is water prove)
Wilhelm, V-257
From: Chris Brown svflyaway@...
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Re: Battery Installation
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 12:27 PM


I agree, if you have water completely flooding your batteries you do have

more serious thing to worry about.



On batteries -- AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries will work underwater
 
Oct 31, 2019
303
Wilhelm, first a comment then a question:

I've seen it without insulated connections. We are only talking twelve
volts, 14 at max and that is too low a power to arc between the terminals.
Not that one would want the battery to stay underwater, but on some
workboats batteries are exposed to considerable spray and still keep
ticking. Best to have the batteries inside and in a dry location. The bilge
location on the Vega is really a great location.

Now my question. How do folks secure the two cabin sole access plates? I
have been working on a solution, but I know others have already solved the
problem so why burn unnecessary brain cycles when there is already a
solution. Seems to me if done properly this would secure the batteries from
flying free if the boat were tilted at a severe angle (like upside down).

Chris

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of WL
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:34 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Re: Battery Installation


I guess this is possible (precluding the wire connection is water prove)
Wilhelm, V-257
From: Chris Brown svflyaway@... mailto:svflyaway%40comcast.net
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Re: Battery Installation
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com mailto:AlbinVega%40yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 12:27 PM

I agree, if you have water completely flooding your batteries you do have

more serious thing to worry about.

On batteries -- AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries will work underwater
 
Apr 30, 2000
197
Chris: I?screwed a wooden "ear" on the bottom of the cover at one end and a sliding wooden latch at the other. Both lock in under the cabin sole. I simply drilled a hole in the latch for a screwdriver rather than having a permanent handle protruding upwards. Oak is plenty strong for this application. Not complicated.? Bill Bach V1071
 
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
I didn't secure the sole plates as such. I did put a strong strip of 5/8 plywood (say 10" by 2" by 5/8") across the forward battery (athwartship) and under the glass cabin sole. The strip sticks under the glass sole just a couple inches or less at each end. I keep it in place with pan head sheet metal screws (1 at each end). These go through the glass lip or recess of the opening where the sole plate sits and then into the ply strip. I countersunk the screws just a wee bit (the fiberglass there being thin) so the sole plate still sits tight, doesn't wobble on the screw heads. Seems pretty secure and it was a quick job. If the forward battery stays in place, the after one can't fall out, of course.. Nicholas Walsh
Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial Street
Portland Maine 04101
Tel. 207/772-2191
fax 207/774-3940

This email was sent from the law firm of Nicholas H. Walsh P.A. It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect that you were not intended to receive this email, please delete it and notify us as soon as possible. Thank you.
From: Chris Brown
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:48 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Re: Battery InstallationWilhelm, first a comment then a question:

I've seen it without insulated connections. We are only talking twelve
volts, 14 at max and that is too low a power to arc between the terminals.
Not that one would want the battery to stay underwater, but on some
workboats batteries are exposed to considerable spray and still keep
ticking. Best to have the batteries inside and in a dry location. The bilge
location on the Vega is really a great location.

Now my question. How do folks secure the two cabin sole access plates? I
have been working on a solution, but I know others have already solved the
problem so why burn unnecessary brain cycles when there is already a
solution. Seems to me if done properly this would secure the batteries from
flying free if the boat were tilted at a severe angle (like upside down).

Chris

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of WL
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:34 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Re: Battery InstallationI guess this is possible (precluding the wire connection is water prove)
Wilhelm, V-257
From: Chris Brown svflyaway@... mailto:svflyaway%40comcast.net
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Re: Battery Installation
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com mailto:AlbinVega%40yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 12:27 PM

I agree, if you have water completely flooding your batteries you do have

more serious thing to worry about.

On batteries -- AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries will work underwater
 
Oct 31, 2019
562
From: Chris Brown svflyaway@...
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Re: Battery Installation
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 2:48 PM
Hi:
to answer your question- one battery is like in a tunnel (with almost no room between the battery and the 4 walls). For the second battery there is just enough room to slide it into the channel. With the lid closed, the batteries are very securly located.
I'm going to my boat tomorrow, I'll snap a few pictures and will post one (or two)
Wilhelm, V-257






Now my question. How do folks secure the two cabin sole access plates? I

have been working on a solution, but I know others have already solved the

problem so why burn unnecessary brain cycles when there is already a

solution. Seems to me if done properly this would secure the batteries from

flying free if the boat were tilted at a severe angle (like upside down).



Chris



From: AlbinVega@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf

Of WL

Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:34 AM

To: AlbinVega@yahoogrou ps.com

Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Re: Battery Installation


I guess this is possible (precluding the wire connection is water prove)

Wilhelm, V-257

From: Chris Brown svflyaway@comcast. net mailto:svflyaway% 40comcast. net

Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Re: Battery Installation

To: AlbinVega@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:AlbinVega% 40yahoogroups. com

Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 12:27 PM
I agree, if you have water completely flooding your batteries you do have
more serious thing to worry about.
On batteries -- AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries will work underwater
 
Oct 30, 2019
574
Thank you to everyone for your helpful advice. I agree that if the
batteries are covered by water, there are much bigger things to worry
about. My concern with keeping them in the bilge is not so much with
the potential for them to be covered with water. It is (1) I removed
the fuel tank to put in the port lazarette and (2) I really don't want
the batteries falling on my head if we turtle.

That said, there are some great ideas for for securing the batteries.
I just have to wait until the temperature gets above 50 degrees F
(should be about April or May) and glass in an extension to the
forward bilge.

The Per Brohall faithful have it and the batteries will be staying in
the bilge (with the exception of the starting bank, which will be
under the cockpit.

Is anyone using AGMs in their series 2? Do they fit?

Peter - Thanks for the photos and the lead to other postings. They
really help.

Wilhelm. Looking forward to seeing your photos, too.

Rock on.

Jack
V2620
 
Oct 31, 2019
303
A group 24 battery is basically the same case size whether flooded, AGM, or
Gel. As I said in my earlier email I switched to Optimus and three fit
easily in the bilge as they are slightly smaller (I used their 34M model I
believe it is). Before this I did have two Group 24 AGMs in the bilge, no
problem. Of course I now have the Optimus and the AGMs so I am contemplating
adding the old AGMs to the system, probably in the cabin if I can make room.
I consume plenty of power as I have lots of gadgets since I teach navigation
and have the excuse to always be trying new programs or equipment (at least
that is what I tell my wife). I never let my batteries discharge much below
70% or 12.6 volts (resting).

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of j.hunter9999
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 6:00 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Battery Installation

Thank you to everyone for your helpful advice. I agree that if the
batteries are covered by water, there are much bigger things to worry
about. My concern with keeping them in the bilge is not so much with
the potential for them to be covered with water. It is (1) I removed
the fuel tank to put in the port lazarette and (2) I really don't want
the batteries falling on my head if we turtle.

That said, there are some great ideas for for securing the batteries.
I just have to wait until the temperature gets above 50 degrees F
(should be about April or May) and glass in an extension to the
forward bilge.

The Per Brohall faithful have it and the batteries will be staying in
the bilge (with the exception of the starting bank, which will be
under the cockpit.

Is anyone using AGMs in their series 2? Do they fit?

Peter - Thanks for the photos and the lead to other postings. They
really help.

Wilhelm. Looking forward to seeing your photos, too.

Rock on.

Jack
V2620
 
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
Chris,
I used to have a hardwood 1"x2" across the battery under the lid,
tucked under the fiberglass rim on each side and held with two sheet
metal screws. But when I switched to deep cycle golf cart batteries
they were too tall for the wood to fit, so I put in four "wellnuts"
around the rim of the opening,
and hold the lid down with four 1/4" machine screws with fender
washers ... a bit cold on bare feet but it works.
The lid to the bilge I leave loose as there is nothing down there
(except a bit of water) that can do any harm.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
Oct 31, 2019
163
On Spring Fever we have a 1.5 x 1" timber batten (two on the longer stern cover) secured loosely with a single woodscrew through the cover. The inital force when you turn the screw, turns the batten until it wedges against the side of the bilge and is projecting under the fibreglass lip, a further half-turn clamps it securely to the underside of the cover and so locks it in that position.

Bob Carlisle
AV 1776