I keep my boat on a mooring in the middle of a river so have no access to shore power. Also I have a Heart Interface Freedom 10 (1 kW) static inverter which includes a 50 amp charger. My plan was to use a 700 watt AC petrol generator plugged into the boat's shore power socket to gain the benefits of the high rate charging plus the three stage control of the charge from the Freedom unit. Having bought the generator I am dismayed that the Freedom initially connects the generator but after 4 seconds simply switches the charging circuits off. It waits for about 30 seconds and repeats the cycle. It does this endlessly. I used the power sharing feature to reduce the input current to 2 amps but to no avail so I e-mailed Heart Interface but was not favoured with a response. As an electronics engineer I would be able to make alterations or adjustments to either device. Has anyone else suffered and/or solved the problem please and if so how? Regards, Don Alexander donalex@compuserve.com
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Matias II Santiago
Noisy Genset
Don: I have the same problem. I bought a Coleman 1800 watts gas gentset that is very noisy sound wise because it is air cooled. It is also noisy in electrical terms. I called Colemam and they suggested a signal conditioner (used for computer applications) at a cost of $150 (non returnable since it was a special order), it it suppose to clean (narrow the peaks - noise) of the output to around 60 hertz and it did not work, it still trips the Hearth charger. After doing some test the best I could do was to charge the batteries at 30 amps (It is suppose to be a 75 amp charger) by putting a load in the circuit from the genset. I used a hair dryer al low temp and low speed. This means that I will have to have the genset on for about 8 hrs to get the batteries charged (two 4D's, 180 amps- 50% discharged) instead of two if the genset was working properly. You may want to experiment with different loads to see if you can maximize the current available for charging. I hope that his help and if you find other solutions please let me know. Matias Boriken
Don: I have the same problem. I bought a Coleman 1800 watts gas gentset that is very noisy sound wise because it is air cooled. It is also noisy in electrical terms. I called Colemam and they suggested a signal conditioner (used for computer applications) at a cost of $150 (non returnable since it was a special order), it it suppose to clean (narrow the peaks - noise) of the output to around 60 hertz and it did not work, it still trips the Hearth charger. After doing some test the best I could do was to charge the batteries at 30 amps (It is suppose to be a 75 amp charger) by putting a load in the circuit from the genset. I used a hair dryer al low temp and low speed. This means that I will have to have the genset on for about 8 hrs to get the batteries charged (two 4D's, 180 amps- 50% discharged) instead of two if the genset was working properly. You may want to experiment with different loads to see if you can maximize the current available for charging. I hope that his help and if you find other solutions please let me know. Matias Boriken
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Gordon Myers
Generators - 110 volts
I am out of my element, however, it is my understanding that not all generators produce a "pure" 110 volt sign wave. The smaller generator units handle voltage but the signels are not prue enough for the Freedom. The big generators 8 / 9kw that Hunter installs work fine with the Freedoms. I had a Freedom 20 that acted up from a ground loop on the shore power. I hired an expert who worked with Freedom all the time. He had Freedom send him some "software" that he installed in the Freedom 20 which accepted the "noisy" signel. Once the "software" upgrade was complete it work ike new. Good Luck.
I am out of my element, however, it is my understanding that not all generators produce a "pure" 110 volt sign wave. The smaller generator units handle voltage but the signels are not prue enough for the Freedom. The big generators 8 / 9kw that Hunter installs work fine with the Freedoms. I had a Freedom 20 that acted up from a ground loop on the shore power. I hired an expert who worked with Freedom all the time. He had Freedom send him some "software" that he installed in the Freedom 20 which accepted the "noisy" signel. Once the "software" upgrade was complete it work ike new. Good Luck.
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Chuck Wolfe
Inverters and Generators
If you are an electrical engineer, I'll describe what is happening because I have the Heart 2000 and a 1 KW generator and the generator just shuts off if I plug the cord into the boat to charge my batteries. And there are 3 other boats on my dock that ran into the same problem. Someone actually got something from Heart or Trace which I read and the problem is that the initial surge with a 50 or 100 amp (mine) charger is that it draws too much initial current and shuts down the generator. I believe that the article computed that you needed at least a 3.5 KW generator to charge through it. I did talk to a boat electrician once who thought there was a way, by using a Link 2000, to fake the charger out so that the initial current draw wouldn't be so high. Unhappily, I don't have the article but I'll try to obtain a copy from the person that showed it to me. He was told by Heart that it just couldn't be done. chuckwolfe@mail.com
If you are an electrical engineer, I'll describe what is happening because I have the Heart 2000 and a 1 KW generator and the generator just shuts off if I plug the cord into the boat to charge my batteries. And there are 3 other boats on my dock that ran into the same problem. Someone actually got something from Heart or Trace which I read and the problem is that the initial surge with a 50 or 100 amp (mine) charger is that it draws too much initial current and shuts down the generator. I believe that the article computed that you needed at least a 3.5 KW generator to charge through it. I did talk to a boat electrician once who thought there was a way, by using a Link 2000, to fake the charger out so that the initial current draw wouldn't be so high. Unhappily, I don't have the article but I'll try to obtain a copy from the person that showed it to me. He was told by Heart that it just couldn't be done. chuckwolfe@mail.com
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Richard Owen
Generators/Inverters
Although I am not an expert on this matter, I have done some investigating into generators when powering inverter/chargers so that i could select a generator for our 460. The recommendation from heart for the Freedom 20 was a 6KW genset to achieve the full 100A charging capability. I don't think there is any hope that you can run a Freedom 10 with only 700 watts. One installer suggested that if capacitors are installed between a 4KW generator and the Freedom 20, this would adjust the power factor enough to get about 85% of the capacity through to the batteries. If I were in your situation, I would look into capacitors and if that doesn't seem possible (I don't know if there is any advantage with such a small generator), get a bigger generator or maybe even a DC charger. Unfortunately, cost is huge to accomplish this. I ended up purchasing an Entec 4.2 KW diesel unit. When the installation is done, I will see what i get out of it, and possibly add capacitors or whatever to try getting close to full capacity. It isn't an easy one to solve. Good luck.
Although I am not an expert on this matter, I have done some investigating into generators when powering inverter/chargers so that i could select a generator for our 460. The recommendation from heart for the Freedom 20 was a 6KW genset to achieve the full 100A charging capability. I don't think there is any hope that you can run a Freedom 10 with only 700 watts. One installer suggested that if capacitors are installed between a 4KW generator and the Freedom 20, this would adjust the power factor enough to get about 85% of the capacity through to the batteries. If I were in your situation, I would look into capacitors and if that doesn't seem possible (I don't know if there is any advantage with such a small generator), get a bigger generator or maybe even a DC charger. Unfortunately, cost is huge to accomplish this. I ended up purchasing an Entec 4.2 KW diesel unit. When the installation is done, I will see what i get out of it, and possibly add capacitors or whatever to try getting close to full capacity. It isn't an easy one to solve. Good luck.
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Chuck Wolfe
Another Solution
Actually, there are a couple choices. (1) Get an AGM starting battery and keep it charged with solar. Use your engine with a Link1000 or 2000 e-meter and a big alternator to charge your house batteries when you get to your boat, or;(2) figure out how to make use of a Truecharge 40 Amp Charger smart charger plugged into your generator to charge your house batteries. You can probably mount the Charger in the starboard lazarette near the Heart and use good size cables from the charger to your house batteries. When unplugged from the generator, they would be out of the circuit. I probably would opt for the second solution if it were me. chuckwolfe@mail.com
Actually, there are a couple choices. (1) Get an AGM starting battery and keep it charged with solar. Use your engine with a Link1000 or 2000 e-meter and a big alternator to charge your house batteries when you get to your boat, or;(2) figure out how to make use of a Truecharge 40 Amp Charger smart charger plugged into your generator to charge your house batteries. You can probably mount the Charger in the starboard lazarette near the Heart and use good size cables from the charger to your house batteries. When unplugged from the generator, they would be out of the circuit. I probably would opt for the second solution if it were me. chuckwolfe@mail.com
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KEN
battery charging
Battery charging DON a 700 watt gen gives you app.6-7amps , you need at least a gen. to give you at least 15 amps. for your charger to work properly.good luck ken
Battery charging DON a 700 watt gen gives you app.6-7amps , you need at least a gen. to give you at least 15 amps. for your charger to work properly.good luck ken
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Les Stone
I don't get it
If the Heart charges at 50 amps at approximately 14 volts. That equals 700 watts! I am sure that there are some losses converting from ac/dc but I don't think you need 6-8 kw (6000-8000 watts) of power for the Heart! I am sure this issue is related to power quality of the genset and not power quantity. However, the genset does sound a little marginal for the Heart. Let's know the resolve if you get one. Good Luck!
If the Heart charges at 50 amps at approximately 14 volts. That equals 700 watts! I am sure that there are some losses converting from ac/dc but I don't think you need 6-8 kw (6000-8000 watts) of power for the Heart! I am sure this issue is related to power quality of the genset and not power quantity. However, the genset does sound a little marginal for the Heart. Let's know the resolve if you get one. Good Luck!
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Richard Owen
I didn't get It Either
Les Stone: Technically, and on the surface of the question,you are right and I think the smaller generators still work with the inverters - they just don't give full charging output. Apparently you can expect something around 65% with a 4.2 KW genset. The problem rests in the areas of efficiency and power factors. I don't fully understand it but I have spoken to enough people who have experienced it to know that it is fact. Richard Owen
Les Stone: Technically, and on the surface of the question,you are right and I think the smaller generators still work with the inverters - they just don't give full charging output. Apparently you can expect something around 65% with a 4.2 KW genset. The problem rests in the areas of efficiency and power factors. I don't fully understand it but I have spoken to enough people who have experienced it to know that it is fact. Richard Owen
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Don Alexander
Many Thanks to all
Many thanks to all who gave help and advice to my Generator/charger problem, especially Chuck Wolfe. As yet I have not cracked the problem of charging from a portable generator. To use a 3KW generator means an expensive and heavy fixed installation taking up a whole locker rather than the portable unit I intended. Re the 700 watts of the chosen unit I intended to use power sharing to reduce the power drawn to within the generator's rating. Ie 500 W I have relevant experience and am responsible for the design of an inverter to power a US made radio which we fitted to British aircraft sold to the Indian Air Force - the specification was rather more demanding than the domestic unit made by Heart Interface. Kind regards to all If this is a little boring you might like to read "Autohelm Diaper" in this Forum.
Many thanks to all who gave help and advice to my Generator/charger problem, especially Chuck Wolfe. As yet I have not cracked the problem of charging from a portable generator. To use a 3KW generator means an expensive and heavy fixed installation taking up a whole locker rather than the portable unit I intended. Re the 700 watts of the chosen unit I intended to use power sharing to reduce the power drawn to within the generator's rating. Ie 500 W I have relevant experience and am responsible for the design of an inverter to power a US made radio which we fitted to British aircraft sold to the Indian Air Force - the specification was rather more demanding than the domestic unit made by Heart Interface. Kind regards to all If this is a little boring you might like to read "Autohelm Diaper" in this Forum.
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