Battery Charger Sizing

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May 7, 2012
1,522
Hunter e33 Maple Bay, BC
Okay I have read Maine Sail's 101 on Installing a Battery Charger which includes information regarding choosing a charger. However, information contained in that article and information that I have received from a battery charger manufacturer conflicts somewhat . . . I think.

Background: As part of the purchase agreement the new boat dealer replaced a stock single 12v 110AH house bank with 4 x 6v golf batteries 232AH each. Thus, totaling 464AH (or there abouts) for my house bank. The stock charger is a dual output 20A (ie 10A/10A) charger. So IMHO the starter battery is all set. The house bank maybe not so.

Conflict: Maine indicates the general rule of thumb in selecting a charger is 10% of the banks capacity give or take plus a few caveats thrown in. However, the charger manufacturer is stating 25% of bank capacity and is recommending a 10/10/100AH charger. (to the tune of $1,500 by the way - ugh). His position is that the smaller charger would run steady for 24 hours or more to bring the house bank back from 50% state of charge. He says they recommend 6 - 8 hrs maximum to recover the battery bank. He also stated "your batteries would not want to be in a charge state for prolonged periods." I may agree with his first statement as charger inefficiencies and additional loading of the batteries such as refrigerator, CO monitoring and other stuff along with the charger switching to the absorption stage will add many hours to getting the house bank back 100% capacity. If the boat is alongside for a couple of days and empty this is not a problem. But what about the statement that the batteries would not be happy charging for this length of period. That kind of conflicts with Maine's position that deep cycle batteries like to be charged slowly.

To cut to the chase: would any harm come to the batteries if I continue to use the 10A charger? Is there any risk to the charger if it runs for extended periods of time like in the order of 24 - 36 hours straight?
 
May 7, 2012
1,522
Hunter e33 Maple Bay, BC
Yes, the Guest Charge Pro 2620 has full 3 stage charging, including bulk, absorption and float.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
That charger is a poor choice for that bank.. Look into the new chargers by Blue Sea or the ProMariner ProNautic P or Sterling Pro Charge Ultra. You will want a charger in the 30 - 60A range than can handle large loads for long periods of time. The Blue Sea, Pronautic P and Pro Charge Ultra are all designed for this. The chargers by Mastervolt are also good...

There is a risk to that particular charger, if you are charging large banks. Those chargers are intended for smaller banks and can't handle large loads for long periods and will eventually cook themselves.

A 45A charger would be about 10%, however a well built 30A charger could handle it.. Keep in mind though that if you have loads on at the dock, like refrigeration, those will make your charger even smaller.. If you ever add a gen set then you'll want a larger charger for shorter bulk times....

Most of the time your charger will be acting as a DC power supply and some chargers are MUCH smarter than others in this regard. The ProNautic P and ProCharge Ultra are excellent DC power supplies and treat the batteries kindly...
 
May 7, 2012
1,522
Hunter e33 Maple Bay, BC
Maine,

I note in your article how (and why) to connect all three outputs by jumping them together to get a single output. However, all 3 of the chargers you have recommended have 3 outputs. I only require 2 outputs - house bank and starter battery. Any tips as to how I would wire up this configuration to best load the output? Also, if you were pushed and asked which one of the 3 chargers you would recommend, your answer would be ......?

Thanks
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
How do you intend to use the boat?
if you are cruising and spending limited time on shore power then larger (up to a point, read that as max absorption charge is what, size for that plus any constant load still on while charging) is better. If you are a weekend sailor then you really don't care how long it takes as long as it is less than 5 days, easier on the batteries too!!
 
May 7, 2012
1,522
Hunter e33 Maple Bay, BC
We could be at anchor for up to 4 days before moving to another location which may or may not be alongside. So an external multistage regulator will no doubt also be an upgrade in the near future. We are in the PNW and our sailing season normally spans from mid March to the end of Oct. Although not full time cruisers (we are working on that) we will sail for approx. 120 days or slightly more a year.
 
May 16, 2007
1,509
Boatless ! 26 Ottawa, Ontario
I just replaced a Promariner 40 amp charger that was overheating trying to charge a 420ah AGM bank. It worked fine on a smaller bank of flooded cells. I found with flooded cells the battery chargers seldom have to output their maximum as the acceptance drops quickly and I seldom got to use the 40 amps the charger was rated at. The AGM battery seem to suck up all the current they can get.

I got the Sterling 50 amp charger, I tied the 3 outputs together and ran them to the main house bank, the other bank for emergency starting (100ah AGM) is charged off the house bank with an echo-charger, so no switching is necessary unless we have a problem.

If you ever think you might want to use a small Honda generator on board be careful the charger is not too big for it. Many like to use the small generators instead of the diesel.

I have a 140 amp Electromax alternator to install next with a Sterling external regulator. That was another consideration on the size of battery charger to install. In heavy use conditions we should be able to bring the batteries up quite quickly with this alternator.

We will eventually add some solar panels so that should also cut down on the battery charger, alternator loads.

The Sterling works great at the dock keeping the batteries topped up and powering the house loads. I like that it can be programmed for different battery types so if we change to a different battery at some point it will handle it.

A battery monitor is also a good idea, I just added one of those as well.

good luck, Bob
 
May 7, 2012
1,522
Hunter e33 Maple Bay, BC
Bill, my concern is that the 10 Amp output of the Guest to the 432AH house bank could possibly keep the charger running for more than a day. This of course depends on how close to 50% capacity they are at. But then I read an article in PS that states that rapid charging at a high rate by high-output alternators/chargers is not great for deep cycle lead acid batteries. So I guess if I keep the charge rate somewhere in the 10% - 25% then it will be acceptable to both the charger and the batteries.

I like the looks of the Sterling external regulators and they seem to be good value for the dollar. Looking at the specs for the Hunter 356 most are fitted with the same engine I have, the 3YM30. When you install the Electromax 140 alternator, will also have to make some modification to the pulley/belt?
 
Jan 30, 2012
1,139
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
Read the MaineSail article http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=125392 concerning external regulation. This article is especially helpful considering the general cruising itinerary we/you use in the San Juans/ Gulf Islands.

If you want further opinion you will probably be disappointed with shore charge capacity less than 30 amps. Even Dyno Battery (Seattle who make very first rate deep cycle FLA and are conservative about their charging recommendations) recommend charging at 6% of C/20 -- which is just under 30 amps in your case. 10 amps will take you from 50% depleted to near full if you have 24 or so hours to waste. By the way the ProMainer or (identical) Sterling are a real value.
 
Last edited:
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Bill, my concern is that the 10 Amp output of the Guest to the 432AH house bank could possibly keep the charger running for more than a day. This of course depends on how close to 50% capacity they are at. But then I read an article in PS that states that rapid charging at a high rate by high-output alternators/chargers is not great for deep cycle lead acid batteries. So I guess if I keep the charge rate somewhere in the 10% - 25% then it will be acceptable to both the charger and the batteries.
Charging consistently at high rates, and only high rates, can result in the batteries not actually getting as full as you'd think.. A surface charge will build up on the surface of the plates and trick the regulator or charger into thinking the battery is at absorption voltage. Technically it is at absorption voltage but not because the plates have absorbed the charge only because the current is high enough to build this surface charge.

Charging at high rates is fine when off cruising but every now and then you need a good low current charge to bring the batteries to full capacity. Most boaters can do this when back at the dock or via solar of on a mooring.

One problem with many of the Guest chargers, other than they will cook themselves if asked to charge large banks, is that on many chargers they only give you one absorption setting. This setting is often 14.3V.. 14.3V is far to low to effectively charge the US 2200's. I would prefer to see 14.6V to 14.8V with those batteries in absorption.



I like the looks of the Sterling external regulators and they seem to be good value for the dollar.
They are a very good value but I still prefer the Balmar's due to the programing options. I have a couple of the Sterling's, if you are interested in one...

Looking at the specs for the Hunter 356 most are fitted with the same engine I have, the 3YM30. When you install the Electromax 140 alternator, will also have to make some modification to the pulley/belt?
If you are considering going over 100A in alternator then you will either need a reg that can limit the field to protect the belt or a serpentine or dual pulley kit. The most your batteries will effectively take is about 115A so a 140A alt is in the right range for fast charging..
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Hey hello below
I'd not recommend a 10 amp due it running at max capacity for long periods of time. Better to get a 30-40 amp model (with all the bells and whistles) and be done with it. I have 410 AH house bank and 30 amp and it is original equipment. That would be 20 years now on a 1993 boat.
 
May 7, 2012
1,522
Hunter e33 Maple Bay, BC
I think my immediate project is reread MS's article on battery chargers and then to scope out a Sterling 50 Amp ProCharge Ultra. Once the warranty is off the Yanmar I will have at the external regulator to see what the best method is to upgrade the exist 80A Hitachi. A quick review shows me a bigggg price difference between the Balmar and Sterling regulators. I will have to convenience myself that the cost is justified.

Thanks all.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I think my immediate project is reread MS's article on battery chargers and then to scope out a Sterling 50 Amp ProCharge Ultra. Once the warranty is off the Yanmar I will have at the external regulator to see what the best method is to upgrade the exist 80A Hitachi. A quick review shows me a bigggg price difference between the Balmar and Sterling regulators. I will have to convenience myself that the cost is justified.

Thanks all.
Don't omit the ProMariner Pronautic P. It is the SAME charger as the Sterling ProCharge Ultra. This charger was designed & built in a joint venture between the two companies...

ProMariner is in Defender and other locations with some competitive pricing. Sterling has less distribution in the US so the pricing may not be as competitive as ProMariner. Both have a 5 year warranty...
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
I think you are going to find that that 80 amp alternator is about a big as you need if you supplement with some solar or wind. Going to a larger alternator is going to require another belt. The install is a real PITA to install. Doable but make sure there is clearance in the engine compartment before you start.
 
May 16, 2007
1,509
Boatless ! 26 Ottawa, Ontario
You do need to change the pulleys and belt to run the higher output alternator.

I bought the complete package from Electromaax, http://www.electromaax.com/products/alternators/140-amp-high-output-marine-alternator-3/
http://www.electromaax.com/yanmar-serpentine-pulley-conversion-kits/

They make the pulley/belt kits themselves for the Yanmar engine.

They supplied the Sterling regulator with battery and alternator temperature probe as part of the package.

The price for the complete package was quite good I thought.

Installation looks like it will be straight forward.

I'll try to get at this install next week and report how it went in a new thread.

Bob
 
May 16, 2007
1,509
Boatless ! 26 Ottawa, Ontario
The Sterling 50 amp charger is on Ebay at almost $100 below the price for the Promariner 50 amp. at Defender. I buy a lot from Defender and try to support them on a lot of my shopping, but on a big ticket item like this I will stray to save that much money.

Bob
 
May 7, 2012
1,522
Hunter e33 Maple Bay, BC
ProMariner is in Defender and other locations with some competitive pricing. Sterling has less distribution in the US so the pricing may not be as competitive as ProMariner. Both have a 5 year warranty...

Maine I will check it out. Have you every run across Bay Marine Supply?? Their prices almost seem too good.
 
May 7, 2012
1,522
Hunter e33 Maple Bay, BC
The Sterling 50 amp charger is on Ebay at almost $100 below the price for the Promariner 50 amp. at Defender. I buy a lot from Defender and try to support them on a lot of my shopping, but on a big ticket item like this I will stray to save that much money.

Bob
Check out the venue I mentioned above. 619 number I believe in San Diego. Good prices on everything they sell.
 
Jun 14, 2004
166
Hunter 260 Portland, OR
Is the starter bank size included in the equation when applying the 10% rule of thumb for determining charger output? I am upgrading from a TC TB10 amp and use a WM 50a battery combiner. Running a 50a starter and a 100a house (both AGM's). Thanks!
 
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