Battery Bank & Charger Wiring Questions

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Battery Bank & Charger Wiring Questions **Edited

Hi Maine,

I am planning to redo the charging/wiring set up on my Catalina 310 and have been using your "Installing a Marine Batter Charger" as a guide. I have a couple of questions related to how to set up some of the wires.

I plan to install a fuse distribution buss as you show. Since I have two banks (1x 4D per bank), I plan to have one fuse distribution buss per bank. That way either bank 1 or 2 could be a starting bank.

Here are my questions:

1) On the C310, the alternator is wired through the battery selector switch. Is this something I should change?

2) If so, should I put second selector switch that comes directly from the alternator and selects which battery receives the charge?

3) In the attached photo of the fuse distribution buss from your article, what are the two smaller, red wires on the out side of the alternator buss?

4) In the attached photo of the charger feed wiring, what are the red and orange wires attached directly to the positive battery terminal?

5) On the negative terminal side, the current configuration is that the negative (err, sorry, my bad [return from battery selector switch]<delete this) from the negative buss behind the electric panel (see attached wiring diagram) is attached to the terminal on Bank 1 and the negative return for the shore power charger is also attached to the terminal on Bank 1. There is then a short section of heavy gauge wire connecting the negative terminals on Bank 1 and Bank 2.
A) Is this a safe/acceptable configuration?
B) I am thinking about installing a negative buss bar to clean this up. Is it ok to have the negative sides from both banks connected?

6) My battery charger (Xantrex Truecharge 2 40A, 3 bank charger) there is only one input for a temperature sensor, should I attach it to Bank 1 or 2?

7) For the fuse distribution buss, is there anything specific on size for the copper bar stock?

As always, thanks for doing what you do Maine.

Fair winds,

Jesse

 

[Bill Roosa]

JK!!!! if you have a battery selector switch that is in the positive (item 1)) AND negative (item 5)) circuit you are wacked!!!! Seek a professional that can actually tell you what you have as this is just not possible without 2 selector switches and that is just plain asking for trouble. I cannot believe ANYBODY has this setup.
I'm thinking that you don't have the skilll to even tell what you have so "don't go changin" your wiring without seeking a professional to get "eyes on" your setup.
A whole lot of boats get burnt to the waterline due to electrical fires and I'd not like to hear that it happened to you.
Sorry if I sound condescending but I'm not "getting that loving feeling" that you know enough to do this mod.
Love you man

 

[Stu Jackson]

Jesse,

Here are some links you might find helpful, including some from Maine Sail

Electrical 101: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5977.0.html

 

[Maine Sail]

Hi Maine,


3) In the attached photo of the fuse distribution buss from your article, what are the two smaller, red wires on the out side of the alternator buss?

One is my solar panel and one is the bilge pump feed.

4) In the attached photo of the charger feed wiring, what are the red and orange wires attached directly to the positive battery terminal?

Voltage sense wire for the battery monitor and Blue Sea panel volt meter.

5) On the negative terminal side, the current configuration is that the negative (err, sorry, my bad [return from battery selector switch]<delete this) from the negative buss behind the electric panel (see attached wiring diagram) is attached to the terminal on Bank 1 and the negative return for the shore power charger is also attached to the terminal on Bank 1. There is then a short section of heavy gauge wire connecting the negative terminals on Bank 1 and Bank 2.
A) Is this a safe/acceptable configuration?

It is very common for all banks to be tied together then to the engine on the neg side. Unless you have a shunt based battery monitor connect the neg of the charger to one side of the house bank and the pos to the opposite end.

B) I am thinking about installing a negative buss bar to clean this up. Is it ok to have the negative sides from both banks connected?

Yes fine. If you add a battery monitor then all loads, including the start bank, go on the load side of the shunt.

6) My battery charger (Xantrex Truecharge 2 40A, 3 bank charger) there is only one input for a temperature sensor, should I attach it to Bank 1 or 2?

Goes on the neg terminal of the battery with the MOST possibility of getting the warmest.

7) For the fuse distribution buss, is there anything specific on size for the copper bar stock?

I think that is 3/16" X 1" but don't quote me on that..



Personally I would wire it as a single output to the house bank and add an ACR or Echo charger for the start battery.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Wiring Diagram

Thank you all for the help. So here is what I have so far as a wiring diagram. I will work to add wire sizes, fuses, probably a monitor and other items next week.

Thanks again.

JK

 

[Stu Jackson]

1. What's the green line from the charger to the engine?

2. You don't need to run two outputs to the two banks from the charger, let the ACR do the work.

3. You should show the C post 1-2-B output to the DC Distribution Panel and to the starter.

4. Suggest renaming the positive buses to PDPs (House Positive Distribution Post and Start Bank Positive Distribution Post) or bus - just my preference to avoid having to look up #1 & #2 vs labeling them what they really are (comes from doing lots of field detective work and wire tracing).

Nice job.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

1. What's the green line from the charger to the engine?

2. You don't need to run two outputs to the two banks from the charger, let the ACR do the work.

3. You should show the C post 1-2-B output to the DC Distribution Panel and to the starter.

4. Suggest renaming the positive buses to PDPs (House Positive Distribution Post and Start Bank Positive Distribution Post) or bus - just my preference to avoid having to look up #1 & #2 vs labeling them what they really are (comes from doing lots of field detective work and wire tracing).

Nice job.

Thanks Stu.

1. The green line is the ground for the charger case.

2. The charger is a "smart" charger so doesn't it already have the same features that adding the ARC on that side would provide? I added the ARC to the alternator side to change that from being charged based on the battery selector switch position. Plus those lines already exist.

3. Will do thanks.

4. Good suggestion.

 

[Stu Jackson]

3. You don't want the ACR to fight itself. Just use one charger output to the house bank and let the ACR do its job for both alternator and charging sources.

Maine Sail has noted this any number of times, I forget which thread, but could be in one of those in the Electrical 101 topics I sent you.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

OK, so I took the info from Stu and Maine and went back and read through more of Maine's posts. Based on these, I have revised my wiring diagram. See attached.

Major changes are:

1) Eliminated the dedicated starter battery. Based on the type of cruising we typically do, our power consumption and how we use the batteries, I think keep two house banks capable of starting from either is a better fit for us. Essentially, when we cruise we typically end up running the motor some each day or being at a marina. We will run the motor after dinner for an hour or so to charge the battery and heat up water for dishes and a quick shower. Right now we do the odd/even day thing with bank 1 and 2. This has worked for us for last year and this year so far and we only killed the battery once where we couldn't start the motor. We still had the other bank in reserve.

This would also eliminate the need to redo the battery compartment to fit the starting battery. That with the cost of the starter battery would reduce the cost of this upgrade. My cost estimate is now at $240 plus wire, terminals and shrink wrap. So probably $400-500 when done.

2) Went down to one wire from the charger and directed it to the ACR.

3) Added the starter and the direct wire to it from the common post.

4) Added the remote panel and temp sensor for the battery charger.

5) Sized the fuses and spec'd the components I would use for the parts to be added (in magenta).

OK, so let's hear it. What do you like, what did I get wrong?

Thanks for the help.

Jesse

 

[Stu Jackson]

Looks good, Jesse. Only questions: fuses for the ACR and charger seem to go to the same fuse. Are the wire sizes the same?

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Thanks Stu

Those two legs are different gauge wires. But if you look at the photos in the original post, I included some photos from Mainesail's original article and he has those two wires different sizes as well. So I don't think this is a problem, mainly because it would be the wire from the fuse to the ACR that would be over sized.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Yes, but did he use the same fuse for two different wire sizes?

 

[Maine Sail]

Thanks Stu

Those two legs are different gauge wires. But if you look at the photos in the original post, I included some photos from Mainesail's original article and he has those two wires different sizes as well. So I don't think this is a problem, mainly because it would be the wire from the fuse to the ACR that would be over sized.

JK,

Those fuses tie in on the battery side of the battery fuses because they are already fused. Those are the ends of in-line fuses for the solar and bilge pumps. Each wire gauge needs a fuse for its max ampacity rating or less...

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Yes, but did he use the same fuse for two different wire sizes?

Yes, he used exactly the same configuration I have in the diagram. See the attached photo.

 

[Maine Sail]

Yes, he used exactly the same configuration I have in the diagram. See the attached photo.

\

See above post... Those wires are already fuse about 2" outside of the picture...

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

JK,

Those fuses tie in on the battery side of the battery fuses because they are already fused. Those are the ends of in-line fuses for the solar and bilge pumps. Each wire gauge needs a fuse for its max ampacity rating or less...

OK, I am confused now. I thought that Stu was talking about the line that comes from the charger to the fuse and the line that goes to the ACR from the fuses. I thought the only fuse for those lines was the 50 amp ANL fuse on the right side of the photo.

 

[Maine Sail]

OK, I am confused now. I thought that Stu was talking about the line that comes from the charger to the fuse and the line that goes to the ACR from the fuses. I thought the only fuse for those lines was the 50 amp ANL fuse on the right side of the photo.

That fuse is sized for the smallest wires ampacity..

 

[SailingHarry]

A single fuse feeding both the ACR and the charger is fine, IF both wires are large enough for the fuse. That 50A fuse requires that both wires be #10 or larger. It's fine to make one #10 and one #6, they just have to be #10 minimum.

If you feed the ACR with #4, you can connect both sides to the 130A fuses. If you use less than #4, you'll need to fuse the line to the House 2 bank.

If you run #4 to the alternator (not a bad idea anyway), you can run it to the 130A fuse and eliminate a fuse from the system.

The ACR is a solid product. Maine has said nice things about the Sterling Latching Relay, especially if you use (or intend to use) solar.
http://sterling-power-usa.com/sterlingpowerusa-prolatch-r.aspx


You spec'd Blue Seas. Good stuff, available localy, but pricey. For a project like this, check out www.vtewarehouse.com
They have good stuff, more selection, and they sell to individuals. They do have minimum orders and shipping costs, but I'll bet you'll still like the price.