Yesterday I was wasting time at Barnes and Nobles and picked up a book titled, (I think) Things I wish I'd known about Sailing. In it the author stated that a mainsail really didn't need battens. I'd be interested in hearing what the folks on this site think. His position was that since a headsail didn't have battens why did a mainsail.
Batten Question
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a mainsail that is cut
like jib doesn't need battens, but it has little power and cannot be cut with a high and deep roach. If the sail was built with battens, it will flop over at worst, and flutter madly at best, if you try to use it without. Battens allow the sail to be cut much fuller to provide power and pointing ability. A little storm trysail doesn't need battens because it is a fully supported on two sides and has no roach.
like jib doesn't need battens, but it has little power and cannot be cut with a high and deep roach. If the sail was built with battens, it will flop over at worst, and flutter madly at best, if you try to use it without. Battens allow the sail to be cut much fuller to provide power and pointing ability. A little storm trysail doesn't need battens because it is a fully supported on two sides and has no roach.
John Vigor
Not to start an argument but after Alan's post I went back to B&N and looked at the book again. It's titled "Things I Wish I'd Known Before I Started Sailing", by John Vigor with an introduction by Don Casey. Vigor is a frequent contributer to Good Old Boat, and has written a number of books. His position is that the battens are more nuisance than they're worth, getting hung up on shrouds, lazy jacks, etc. Also chafing the sails, etc. He agrees with your point about the leech Alan but says the only thing the batten does is support that line from the clew of the sail to the head. I'll be the first to admit I don't know, being about as intelligent about these things as a bag of hammers, I just was asking since right now my battens are out of the sails after having Sailcare recondition them and being as lazy as I am I was grasping at an opportunity to avoid putting them back in.
Not to start an argument but after Alan's post I went back to B&N and looked at the book again. It's titled "Things I Wish I'd Known Before I Started Sailing", by John Vigor with an introduction by Don Casey. Vigor is a frequent contributer to Good Old Boat, and has written a number of books. His position is that the battens are more nuisance than they're worth, getting hung up on shrouds, lazy jacks, etc. Also chafing the sails, etc. He agrees with your point about the leech Alan but says the only thing the batten does is support that line from the clew of the sail to the head. I'll be the first to admit I don't know, being about as intelligent about these things as a bag of hammers, I just was asking since right now my battens are out of the sails after having Sailcare recondition them and being as lazy as I am I was grasping at an opportunity to avoid putting them back in.
Battens ...
Take a look at the sail plans for a VOR70, AC, 29er, 49er, and many other modern performance boats. Having a big roach and a large/broad head can produce sails of much higher efficiency. None of these sail plans could exist without lots of battens. On the other hand, as has been noted, you could have a sail without them, and have to suffer a reduction of sail area, and performance (and thus speed), but it might be easier I suppose. I've never found battens to be too much of a hassle except on my Laser where the pocket elastics are worn out, and the battens tend to "escape" never to be seen again (easily fixed). Chris
Take a look at the sail plans for a VOR70, AC, 29er, 49er, and many other modern performance boats. Having a big roach and a large/broad head can produce sails of much higher efficiency. None of these sail plans could exist without lots of battens. On the other hand, as has been noted, you could have a sail without them, and have to suffer a reduction of sail area, and performance (and thus speed), but it might be easier I suppose. I've never found battens to be too much of a hassle except on my Laser where the pocket elastics are worn out, and the battens tend to "escape" never to be seen again (easily fixed). Chris
If the sail is designed to use battens....
then leaving them out would likely be a mistake..... or a way to ruin it quicker so you can buy a new mainsail that doesn't use/need them. Obviously, battens are required for positive roach, but I suspect that it if roach isn't a desired feature, a mainsail could be cut to work without battens. Again obviously, a roach-less sail (of which a storm trysail is the extreme example) is less powerful than one with roach. And don't forget, the author was making a value judgement about whether battens were more trouble than they were worth - he didn't say they served no purpose, as far as I read in the post above. Speaking of roach, I have a video by Steve and Linda Dashew, in which they demonstrate a mainsail that has so much roach that it overlaps the backstay by 3 FEET!!! They showed how it slides past when tacking/jibing, and that sail must be super-powerful.
They came upon this concept accidentally, when a sailmaker mis-read the dimensions of a sail they ordered, and they didn't find out about it until they hoisted it the first time. They tried it out and found that it works, and this was in a boat of about 70 feet. I've always coveted the Dashew's designs - their Beowolf boats, for example - as ideal cruising boats. Doubt I'll ever be able to afford one. ;D Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
then leaving them out would likely be a mistake..... or a way to ruin it quicker so you can buy a new mainsail that doesn't use/need them. Obviously, battens are required for positive roach, but I suspect that it if roach isn't a desired feature, a mainsail could be cut to work without battens. Again obviously, a roach-less sail (of which a storm trysail is the extreme example) is less powerful than one with roach. And don't forget, the author was making a value judgement about whether battens were more trouble than they were worth - he didn't say they served no purpose, as far as I read in the post above. Speaking of roach, I have a video by Steve and Linda Dashew, in which they demonstrate a mainsail that has so much roach that it overlaps the backstay by 3 FEET!!! They showed how it slides past when tacking/jibing, and that sail must be super-powerful.
They came upon this concept accidentally, when a sailmaker mis-read the dimensions of a sail they ordered, and they didn't find out about it until they hoisted it the first time. They tried it out and found that it works, and this was in a boat of about 70 feet. I've always coveted the Dashew's designs - their Beowolf boats, for example - as ideal cruising boats. Doubt I'll ever be able to afford one. ;D Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
battens support the roach
And any blue water sailor can tell you roaches are not needed or desired. Roaches themselves are not the problem the battens are. They chafe the sail, get stuck in everything, fall out and make the sail self destruct and make healing force way up high. All things blue water cruisers are trying to avoid. Do they increase the boats performance? Certainly, but at the cost of having sails that don't last very long. Give your sail a roachectomy and watch it shine for years.
And any blue water sailor can tell you roaches are not needed or desired. Roaches themselves are not the problem the battens are. They chafe the sail, get stuck in everything, fall out and make the sail self destruct and make healing force way up high. All things blue water cruisers are trying to avoid. Do they increase the boats performance? Certainly, but at the cost of having sails that don't last very long. Give your sail a roachectomy and watch it shine for years.
Hugh....
Hugh: If you do not like these answers, then I suggest that you remove your battens and see what happens with your sail. I think that you will be able to make your own decision on the matter.
Hugh: If you do not like these answers, then I suggest that you remove your battens and see what happens with your sail. I think that you will be able to make your own decision on the matter.
Battens
The score so far is battens 3, no battens 1, I'll probably put them back in. My guess is that the wind conditions would be more of a factor with no battens and since I usually sail in light winds I'd be better off with them in. Thanks for the input. Just thought Vigor made an interesting and obviously controversial point.
The score so far is battens 3, no battens 1, I'll probably put them back in. My guess is that the wind conditions would be more of a factor with no battens and since I usually sail in light winds I'd be better off with them in. Thanks for the input. Just thought Vigor made an interesting and obviously controversial point.
My main has no battens...
Guess that it is time to hear from someone with a main furling into the mast. My 356 mainsail has no battens. However, the sail is specifically cut to work without battens. If the sail was cut to use battens for a larger roach, then it will not work without them. I give up sail area for convenience, but we do pretty good with our main.
Guess that it is time to hear from someone with a main furling into the mast. My 356 mainsail has no battens. However, the sail is specifically cut to work without battens. If the sail was cut to use battens for a larger roach, then it will not work without them. I give up sail area for convenience, but we do pretty good with our main.
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