Balancing act

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jimmyb

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Feb 12, 2010
231
Precison 165 NA
Hey all!
Having a bit of trouble ballancing the boat when hove to. When I get a chance to go out Im usually under sail most all of the day. When I do take time to grab a sandwich or get some fluid in me I come about, stall the boat and hove to. The problem is I am constantly having to trim the main to balance the boat.:bang:

When the main is left to luff and the jib is backed it pivots the boat over the balance point and the boat wants to head down. I have a hank on so I cannot reduce head sail. Is this just a small boat thing? If so mabe I have to toss out the anchor for lunch. The only other boat I have sailed was the Colgate 26 at school and that thing stuck like it was in mud. Jeez I loved sailing that boat.

Thanks and God Bless, jimmyb
 
L

LooseDiamond

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Feb 9, 2008
292
Catalina 22 Long Beach Harbor, MS
Hmmm. Should be doable. I am no expert, but in my experience on my c22, turn tiller max into wind and lash. After jib backs, I luff main and trim from there until balance is achieved. With the tiller full over , I can experiment with the main until good. Sounds like you need to sheet in the mainsail until it balances the jib and your boat specifically. Try that. I have hove to and brought the main in enough to reef in conditions that were almost un-sailable before doing so. While reefing, the boat was inherently stable throughout. Just work at it...

That being said, the smaller the boat, the more your position on it affects the balance. This could be a factor...
 
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Mike1956

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Jun 1, 2004
121
Catalina 22 PA
jimmyb, are you swinging the tiller over to help maintain your heave to? Whenever I heave to, I try to start out on a port tack, then come about letting the jib backwind so that the wind is now hitting from the starboard side. I then release the mainsheet and slowly play out the mainsail while pushing the tiller hard over to the port side. I will take the mainsheet and put a couple of overhand half hitches around the tiller, then cleat off on the stern cleat. The back winded jib wants to push the bow around, but the hard rudder trys to steer the boat to starboard, neutralizing the boat.
 
J

jimmyb

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Feb 12, 2010
231
Precison 165 NA
Mike1956 said:
jimmyb, are you swinging the tiller over to help maintain your heave to? Whenever I heave to, I try to start out on a port tack, then come about letting the jib backwind so that the wind is now hitting from the starboard side. I then release the mainsheet and slowly play out the mainsail while pushing the tiller hard over to the port side. I will take the mainsheet and put a couple of overhand half hitches around the tiller, then cleat off on the stern cleat. The back winded jib wants to push the bow around, but the hard rudder trys to steer the boat to starboard, neutralizing the boat.
Click to expand
This is exactly how I approach it. I will definitely be playing more with this. It seems the rudder hard to leeward does little. It is a must that I sheet in the main some. Just doesnt want to stay put. Seems im either over trimmed or heading down. I just thought maybe I havent waited long enought to see if it will zig zag back but when she points away it really feels like were goin for a ride. Dont want my lunch to spill ya know. There may be a small sweet spot there that needs a finer touch on the main sheet

Thanks folks - any opinions welcome.
 
PotomacDaysailer

PotomacDaysailer

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Jun 14, 2010
307
Seafarer 29 Oologah, OK
Mike1956 said:
jimmyb, are you swinging the tiller over to help maintain your heave to? Whenever I heave to, I try to start out on a port tack, then come about letting the jib backwind so that the wind is now hitting from the starboard side. I then release the mainsheet and slowly play out the mainsail while pushing the tiller hard over to the port side. I will take the mainsheet and put a couple of overhand half hitches around the tiller, then cleat off on the stern cleat. The back winded jib wants to push the bow around, but the hard rudder trys to steer the boat to starboard, neutralizing the boat.
Click to expand
I was going to say the same thing, but I see that you are indeed putting the helm down. I always thought that the main should be luffed completely, but as was said and according to Wikipedia article on heaving to, it is a matter of balancing the two sails and you might have to sheet the main to provide a little bit of drive to balance the jib. My boat is like the one you learned on, I can park it for lunch or R&R, no problem at all.
 
J

jimmyb

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Feb 12, 2010
231
Precison 165 NA
PotomacDaysailer said:
I was going to say the same thing, but I see that you are indeed putting the helm down. I always thought that the main should be luffed completely, but as was said and according to Wikipedia article on heaving to, it is a matter of balancing the two sails and you might have to sheet the main to provide a little bit of drive to balance the jib. My boat is like the one you learned on, I can park it for lunch or R&R, no problem at all.
Click to expand
Yeah, we would luff the main on the colgate too with the jib unfurled and backed. If I had a furler I would first try reducing some sail there as I feel the main problem is that it is being pushed considerably. Its a beammy but short boat, I wonder if it just likes to spin on its C/B axis so to speak. Instead of a longer boat having more to push against sideways and resisting sprining and traveling more rearward. Thats after all what Im looking for. Im no engineer!

jimmyb
 
S

SchwarckT

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Jul 5, 2010
161
Oday 22, Mariner, Challenger 15 Michigan
I have the same problem with both of my centerboard boats. My O'Day 22(shoal keel/centerboard) heaves too easily, however.
Tom
 
J

jimmyb

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Feb 12, 2010
231
Precison 165 NA
dscribner said:
JimmyB,

Pictures, man, pictures! You know what I mean!

Don
Click to expand
Don,
Its more a touchy feely thing than a visual. Hopefully were going out tommorow so Ill give 'er another go. Its not like I cant get it hove to, just need to constantly trim. Way better than being underway but still have to be near the main sheet. I may try dropping the jib all togegher and see if I can luff the main. I think the wind will still have plenty of effect on the bow of the boat. The wife basically does the rest of the crew duties including dishing out lunch and drinks so I dont NEED to move about the boat. With 15 ft of boat I dont have far to go.

I am also living in the caves when it comes to tech items so I dont have a nice water proof camera and dont want to loose mine to an accident. Saw an older gent take a header off his boat one day stepping to the dock. :eek: We grabbed him up out of the water and he pulled a digital camera out of his jacket. Lucky for him it was waterproof.

God Bless, jimmyb
 
dscribner

dscribner

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Nov 9, 2008
1,338
Pearson-O'Day 290 Portland Maine
I guess you don't know what I mean . . . sorry.

You never posted photos of you new boat!
 
J

jimmyb

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Feb 12, 2010
231
Precison 165 NA
Don,
Sorry man, Im a little slow, thought you wanted pics to diagnose my problem. I will get out the camera tonight and give you a look.

Jimmyb
 
sinnettc

sinnettc

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May 23, 2007
1,306
Catalina Capri 22 Albany, Oregon
I can't get my capri 22 to balance to the point that it creates the slick the Pardee's mention in their heavy weather sailing video. We "sailed" all over the lake this afternoon with the jib backed, main luffing, and me playing the tiller to keep us from tacking. If I trim in the main then we'll start making serious headway even with the jib backed. I think it has something to do with the fin keel vs a full keel. That said, it slowed us down enough that the grandkids could swim behind the boat - with lifejackets and a line to keep them attached to the boat.
 
J

jimmyb

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Feb 12, 2010
231
Precison 165 NA
Im begining to have that warm fuzzy feeling knowing Im not the only one having difficulties with this. After all misery LOVES company.

jimmyb
 
P

peptobysmol

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Jun 28, 2009
312
hunter 23 Lake Hefner
Heaving to is a manuever that I haven't tried yet. Does having a fractional rig make any difference?
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,049
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Heave to

How big a jib are you using?

When you start the maneuver are you going close hauled or somewhat or even more off the wind?
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,049
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Sometimes small or big jibs affect the balance of the boat when hove to. My experience is that bigger jibs make it harder to heave to. With your small jib, it should work if the clew of the jib is as far aft as it can be, i.e., starting it when close hauled, as you've mentioned.

Sometimes people may misunderstand the position the boat takes when hove to. It keeps moving. I understand that you've found yours keeps turning out of hove to. Only thing I can advise is to keep trying with different mainsheet positions. Things change with different wind conditions, too.

And if there's not a whole lot of surface area from the keel/dagger board underwater, that may be a contributing influence.
 
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