Hi all,
I am new to this community. I have been reading and learning a lot from sailing forums, but feel sorry that I have to share my experience on my first post here.
My sailing experience are lasers and F-18 racing. I have been researching trimaran and looking to buy a Corsair or Dragonfly trimaran for the past year or so. This is my first boat purchase and a few weeks ago I found a 2000 Corsair F24 Mk 2 in Comox, Vancouver Island, BC. Prior to viewing this F24, I checked out a Corair Sprint before but want a boat with a cabin. I also checked out other monohull around 30’, including a Yamaha 30 and a J boat. I am also interested on the F28, but feel that F24 suits my needs better.
I'd like to share my experience dealing with the yacht broker and the yacht brokage firm. This is the very first time I work with a yacht broker and a brokage firm, and the experience was extremely disappointing, to say the least. I will appreciate some advice.
BTW, most of the experience I share, is backed by actual text messages and emails, with a few from phone conversation.
My experience is in Lasers and F18 racing, so a F24 is a logical choice for me as a first boat. I want a fast boat that I can also learn how to singlehand. I also really enjoy soloing the club’s Nacra 5.0 and flying a hull with it. I have taken some racing courses and I have a racing certificate from the program. I plan to daysail most of the time but also want to do some weekend and short camping style trips. I will be sailing around Vancouver BC and the Gulf Islands.
I found the boat on Craiglist, listing was posted by the owner, who put the broker as contact. Emailed the broker and arranged a viewing a few days later. Broker was accomodating, as I was travelling from Vancouver to the Island and couldn't make it to the marina until 7pm. My sailing partner and I checked out the boat for a bit more than an hour. Boat seems solid and condition seems quite clean, given my very limited knowledge on sailboat. I was told the boat will come with a brand new Yamaha outboard. So I told the broker that I wanted to proceed. This will be my first boat and I've never worked with yacht broker before, so will appreciate his knowledge and expertise to guide me on the process. I asked about boat survey and was told that it would take weeks or even months to schedule one because surveryors are quite busy in that area. The broker also told me that title transfer is complicate and suggested a title transfer company to handle the paperwork for $500+.
Viewing was on Monday July 31, and there’s an upcoming long weekend on Aug 5-7. I texted the broker on Aug 1 that I’d like to make an offer, subject to viewing maintenance history/all available receipts/documents, detail list of equipment, inspection of the boat and sail inventory, safety inspection on the trailer, sea trial and survey, and owner showing how to move the boat to the trailer and how to raise/lower the mast. During this time I repeatedly asked the broker about the boat license, because I didn’t see any license number on the boat. He never replied to my question and finally I found out from Transport Canada that boat under 10HP doesn’t require license. And getting title transfer requires only the bill of sale, signed copies of both parties IDs, and a colour photo of the side view. The broker didn’t bother to find out the answer and just told me to call the title transfer company. I also asked about boat insurance, then later found out by myself that boat insurance usually require a survey. Again, the broker didn’t inform me this basic fact, despite I have asked him for his “knowledge and expertise”. The listing also said the boat comes with slip until end of Aug. I asked the broker about extending the slip until end of Sept, but were told to just call the marina myself. Turned out the marina doesn’t allow slip transfer and I will have to get a new slip after I purchase the boat.
At this point I started to feel that the broker wasn’t doing his job. He never answered my ligitimate and logical concerns and questions. I had to do all the works myself. I texted him repeatedly to add my subjects on the offer, but he never responsed to it, and just kept asking me to sign the offer, which the only subjects are, and I quote:
"Subject:
1. Marine survey satisfactory to purchaser
2. Sea trial satisfactory to purchaser"
I have no idea if this is an accepted practice or not. Call me naive and still wanted to proceed at that time, I signed the offer, with less than 5 precent lower than the asking price. And promptly paid the deposit in bank draft to the title transfer company.
As for the survey, I went to local marine supply store and easily got referral to several surveyors and got my appointment in 3 days. Not weeks or months.
I called the broker the day before the survey, twice, and again texted him to confirm the time with the owner. He never contacted the owner and I got so fed up that I finally called the owner myself and confirmed with him within seconds. Oh boy how difficult or time consuming can that be?
Since the first viewing of the boat the only pressing messages from the broker were pushes to send in my offer. None of my questions and concerns were addressed. The broker replies were also mostly very short and I felt disrespected because my questions were simply ignored.
To me, my subjects all seems reasonable and logical, and I quote the actual text message I sent to the broker:
“Can you please add the following details to the offer? Those are the details we talked and texted but aren’t written on the offer:
All the repairs, maintenance history, recipes of the new Yamaha 6HP engine(with model number)
Please specify the make and model of the electronics:
-Autohelm
-Chart-Plotter with charts (Which charts are included?)
-Depth sounder
Moorage at Comox Valley Marina until Aug 31, 2023”
After I notified the broker the survey time, there's no response whether he will be at the survey or not. And of course, at this stage the owner and I simply don't care whether the broker will be there to facilitate the survey, or anything at all.
Fortunately most of the communication are in text messages so I have records.
After I met the owner for the survey, the owner told me he is also very frustrated with the broker's "services". Or should I say, “non-services?” IIRC, he said the listing was delayed and took almost a month to list on their company’s website after they signed the contract. The broker was also deceiving. After the viewing on July 31 I asked the broker to contact the owner immediately so the deal can proceed ASAP before the long weekend, but was told that the owner is travelling and will be away for the long weekend and not available to answer my questions, which are completely untrue after I met and confirmed that with the owner. The owner told me he wasn't away and wasn't doing anything on that weekend either. This deal could have been completed much sooner and much smoother, in my opinion, should the broker spent a just few moments to facilitate it. The broker didn’t even bother to spend 10 sec to forward my text message about documents, sail inventory and list of equipment to the owner so the owner can prepare them for the survey and sea trial. I have cash on hand and no financing is needed. If this is not one of the easiest deal to close should the requested documents prepared and survey/sea trail check out, I don’t know what is.
This is his actual text reply:
“These are all details that you would have learned during the time you spent with [the owner].
Model numbers of equipment, motor etc.
....
“
What in the world have the broker done? If I have to do everything myself?? Isn’t getting those information BEFORE I made an offer the sincere, correct and logical way?? I had no contact information of the owner before I made the offer.
I emailed the Founding President of the brokage with my frustration with the broker and the non-services. He called me quickly to apologized for my experience with this broker. He also told me he is not involved in the day to day anymore but the CEO was on vacation and will return on Monday, that forwarding my email to the CEO at the time will upset him and promised to followup by next Wed. So I patiently waited for the followup.
Guess what? I have to followup again on Thursday. CEO emailed me on Friday, said will call to discuss my experience. Received call but he claimed to be in rural area and cell phone was bad and hard to hear and we discussed nothing. CEO ended the call abrutly but never bother to call/text/email back. It is the next next Wednesday now. What a joke. Can you imagine a more disappointing, frustrating and disrespecful customer experience from a yacht broker and brokage firm?? Despite claiming to have 5 offices, and I quote from their website:
“1. We love people and we love boats. We bring people and boats together in a fun and supportive way.
2. Our team culture fosters enduring relationships, turning clients into friends.
3. We use trust, not tactics, whether you are buying or selling.”
With friends like these who needs enemies?
It was*Mark Twain*who said, “Action speaks louder than words but not nearly as often.” This has become my favorite saying, both with regards to customer experience and to life in general. I've used this quote recently with kids, and it's an important code to live by.
One more thing: The President also told me I should close the deal first then they will followup “in the middle” of next week. Said they have 8 deals going on and was overwhelmed, with 21 staff. BAD advice.
The broker called me after I talked to the President. I tried to continue the discussion in a professional manner to close the deal. Unfortunately the discussion ended without reaching any type of consent that respected my legitimate questions and concerns. I was very, very disappointed. It was a terrible first boat purchase experience dealing with broker.
My trust with this broker has already been severely damaged, and subsequent communication ended with even more disappointment, to the point of me feeling threatened by the broker to just close the deal and pay for the boat as is, as the broker refused discourteously to renegotiate the price based on the survey and sea trial results. Basically we were told to just take it or leave it, as is. Words being said that was disrespectful and felt like an insult to my sailing partner. Bad manner, bad interpersonal and communication skill? Cultural insensitivity? I try not to judge people, but I do know I don't ever want to talk or hear from this person again.
Isn’t it normal to renegotiate the price after survey and sea trial, if something wrong is discovered?? I asked for the sail inventory, and wanted to inspect the sails. But only the main and jib were shown. How do I know what I am getting, if they are not written on the offer?? I asked to see the documents and receipts, and none were present. I asked for make and models and details of the electronics, and got nothing. Am I supposed to just trust them without written them down on the offer??
The date of the survey and sea trial, I arrived the marina and met with the surveyor on time. The owner texted me half an hour earlier saying he is in emergency room but will make it 30 min late. Sea trial went like this: 5-10 min motored out of the marina, 5-10 min raised the main and jib in very light wind, then dropped the sails and motored back to the marina. It is a brand-new-not-broken-in-yet motor so we weren't even half throttle. Not much of a sea trial, but I am not going to ask a 70+ years old who just released from ER for heart condition to extend the sea trial. It’s just the right thing to do.
So nothing that I asked, repeatedly, were present during the survey and sea trial. Sea trial was short and not to my satisfactory. Nothing that I specified were written on the offer. No detail list of sail inventory, equipments, and documents. I believe I have spent enough valuable time, if nothing I asked were present, why would I not reduce my offer price? And the broker has the gut to tell me that I either buy the boat as is or leave it.
I promptly withdrew my offer and later got my deposit back.
But what a terrible first boat buying experience with yacht broker and brokage firm. The sailing and boating community deserves to know my experience.
Many thanks for your valuable time, if you made it this far.
I am new to this community. I have been reading and learning a lot from sailing forums, but feel sorry that I have to share my experience on my first post here.
My sailing experience are lasers and F-18 racing. I have been researching trimaran and looking to buy a Corsair or Dragonfly trimaran for the past year or so. This is my first boat purchase and a few weeks ago I found a 2000 Corsair F24 Mk 2 in Comox, Vancouver Island, BC. Prior to viewing this F24, I checked out a Corair Sprint before but want a boat with a cabin. I also checked out other monohull around 30’, including a Yamaha 30 and a J boat. I am also interested on the F28, but feel that F24 suits my needs better.
I'd like to share my experience dealing with the yacht broker and the yacht brokage firm. This is the very first time I work with a yacht broker and a brokage firm, and the experience was extremely disappointing, to say the least. I will appreciate some advice.
BTW, most of the experience I share, is backed by actual text messages and emails, with a few from phone conversation.
My experience is in Lasers and F18 racing, so a F24 is a logical choice for me as a first boat. I want a fast boat that I can also learn how to singlehand. I also really enjoy soloing the club’s Nacra 5.0 and flying a hull with it. I have taken some racing courses and I have a racing certificate from the program. I plan to daysail most of the time but also want to do some weekend and short camping style trips. I will be sailing around Vancouver BC and the Gulf Islands.
I found the boat on Craiglist, listing was posted by the owner, who put the broker as contact. Emailed the broker and arranged a viewing a few days later. Broker was accomodating, as I was travelling from Vancouver to the Island and couldn't make it to the marina until 7pm. My sailing partner and I checked out the boat for a bit more than an hour. Boat seems solid and condition seems quite clean, given my very limited knowledge on sailboat. I was told the boat will come with a brand new Yamaha outboard. So I told the broker that I wanted to proceed. This will be my first boat and I've never worked with yacht broker before, so will appreciate his knowledge and expertise to guide me on the process. I asked about boat survey and was told that it would take weeks or even months to schedule one because surveryors are quite busy in that area. The broker also told me that title transfer is complicate and suggested a title transfer company to handle the paperwork for $500+.
Viewing was on Monday July 31, and there’s an upcoming long weekend on Aug 5-7. I texted the broker on Aug 1 that I’d like to make an offer, subject to viewing maintenance history/all available receipts/documents, detail list of equipment, inspection of the boat and sail inventory, safety inspection on the trailer, sea trial and survey, and owner showing how to move the boat to the trailer and how to raise/lower the mast. During this time I repeatedly asked the broker about the boat license, because I didn’t see any license number on the boat. He never replied to my question and finally I found out from Transport Canada that boat under 10HP doesn’t require license. And getting title transfer requires only the bill of sale, signed copies of both parties IDs, and a colour photo of the side view. The broker didn’t bother to find out the answer and just told me to call the title transfer company. I also asked about boat insurance, then later found out by myself that boat insurance usually require a survey. Again, the broker didn’t inform me this basic fact, despite I have asked him for his “knowledge and expertise”. The listing also said the boat comes with slip until end of Aug. I asked the broker about extending the slip until end of Sept, but were told to just call the marina myself. Turned out the marina doesn’t allow slip transfer and I will have to get a new slip after I purchase the boat.
At this point I started to feel that the broker wasn’t doing his job. He never answered my ligitimate and logical concerns and questions. I had to do all the works myself. I texted him repeatedly to add my subjects on the offer, but he never responsed to it, and just kept asking me to sign the offer, which the only subjects are, and I quote:
"Subject:
1. Marine survey satisfactory to purchaser
2. Sea trial satisfactory to purchaser"
I have no idea if this is an accepted practice or not. Call me naive and still wanted to proceed at that time, I signed the offer, with less than 5 precent lower than the asking price. And promptly paid the deposit in bank draft to the title transfer company.
As for the survey, I went to local marine supply store and easily got referral to several surveyors and got my appointment in 3 days. Not weeks or months.
I called the broker the day before the survey, twice, and again texted him to confirm the time with the owner. He never contacted the owner and I got so fed up that I finally called the owner myself and confirmed with him within seconds. Oh boy how difficult or time consuming can that be?
Since the first viewing of the boat the only pressing messages from the broker were pushes to send in my offer. None of my questions and concerns were addressed. The broker replies were also mostly very short and I felt disrespected because my questions were simply ignored.
To me, my subjects all seems reasonable and logical, and I quote the actual text message I sent to the broker:
“Can you please add the following details to the offer? Those are the details we talked and texted but aren’t written on the offer:
All the repairs, maintenance history, recipes of the new Yamaha 6HP engine(with model number)
Please specify the make and model of the electronics:
-Autohelm
-Chart-Plotter with charts (Which charts are included?)
-Depth sounder
Moorage at Comox Valley Marina until Aug 31, 2023”
After I notified the broker the survey time, there's no response whether he will be at the survey or not. And of course, at this stage the owner and I simply don't care whether the broker will be there to facilitate the survey, or anything at all.
Fortunately most of the communication are in text messages so I have records.
After I met the owner for the survey, the owner told me he is also very frustrated with the broker's "services". Or should I say, “non-services?” IIRC, he said the listing was delayed and took almost a month to list on their company’s website after they signed the contract. The broker was also deceiving. After the viewing on July 31 I asked the broker to contact the owner immediately so the deal can proceed ASAP before the long weekend, but was told that the owner is travelling and will be away for the long weekend and not available to answer my questions, which are completely untrue after I met and confirmed that with the owner. The owner told me he wasn't away and wasn't doing anything on that weekend either. This deal could have been completed much sooner and much smoother, in my opinion, should the broker spent a just few moments to facilitate it. The broker didn’t even bother to spend 10 sec to forward my text message about documents, sail inventory and list of equipment to the owner so the owner can prepare them for the survey and sea trial. I have cash on hand and no financing is needed. If this is not one of the easiest deal to close should the requested documents prepared and survey/sea trail check out, I don’t know what is.
This is his actual text reply:
“These are all details that you would have learned during the time you spent with [the owner].
Model numbers of equipment, motor etc.
....
“
What in the world have the broker done? If I have to do everything myself?? Isn’t getting those information BEFORE I made an offer the sincere, correct and logical way?? I had no contact information of the owner before I made the offer.
I emailed the Founding President of the brokage with my frustration with the broker and the non-services. He called me quickly to apologized for my experience with this broker. He also told me he is not involved in the day to day anymore but the CEO was on vacation and will return on Monday, that forwarding my email to the CEO at the time will upset him and promised to followup by next Wed. So I patiently waited for the followup.
Guess what? I have to followup again on Thursday. CEO emailed me on Friday, said will call to discuss my experience. Received call but he claimed to be in rural area and cell phone was bad and hard to hear and we discussed nothing. CEO ended the call abrutly but never bother to call/text/email back. It is the next next Wednesday now. What a joke. Can you imagine a more disappointing, frustrating and disrespecful customer experience from a yacht broker and brokage firm?? Despite claiming to have 5 offices, and I quote from their website:
“1. We love people and we love boats. We bring people and boats together in a fun and supportive way.
2. Our team culture fosters enduring relationships, turning clients into friends.
3. We use trust, not tactics, whether you are buying or selling.”
With friends like these who needs enemies?
It was*Mark Twain*who said, “Action speaks louder than words but not nearly as often.” This has become my favorite saying, both with regards to customer experience and to life in general. I've used this quote recently with kids, and it's an important code to live by.
One more thing: The President also told me I should close the deal first then they will followup “in the middle” of next week. Said they have 8 deals going on and was overwhelmed, with 21 staff. BAD advice.
The broker called me after I talked to the President. I tried to continue the discussion in a professional manner to close the deal. Unfortunately the discussion ended without reaching any type of consent that respected my legitimate questions and concerns. I was very, very disappointed. It was a terrible first boat purchase experience dealing with broker.
My trust with this broker has already been severely damaged, and subsequent communication ended with even more disappointment, to the point of me feeling threatened by the broker to just close the deal and pay for the boat as is, as the broker refused discourteously to renegotiate the price based on the survey and sea trial results. Basically we were told to just take it or leave it, as is. Words being said that was disrespectful and felt like an insult to my sailing partner. Bad manner, bad interpersonal and communication skill? Cultural insensitivity? I try not to judge people, but I do know I don't ever want to talk or hear from this person again.
Isn’t it normal to renegotiate the price after survey and sea trial, if something wrong is discovered?? I asked for the sail inventory, and wanted to inspect the sails. But only the main and jib were shown. How do I know what I am getting, if they are not written on the offer?? I asked to see the documents and receipts, and none were present. I asked for make and models and details of the electronics, and got nothing. Am I supposed to just trust them without written them down on the offer??
The date of the survey and sea trial, I arrived the marina and met with the surveyor on time. The owner texted me half an hour earlier saying he is in emergency room but will make it 30 min late. Sea trial went like this: 5-10 min motored out of the marina, 5-10 min raised the main and jib in very light wind, then dropped the sails and motored back to the marina. It is a brand-new-not-broken-in-yet motor so we weren't even half throttle. Not much of a sea trial, but I am not going to ask a 70+ years old who just released from ER for heart condition to extend the sea trial. It’s just the right thing to do.
So nothing that I asked, repeatedly, were present during the survey and sea trial. Sea trial was short and not to my satisfactory. Nothing that I specified were written on the offer. No detail list of sail inventory, equipments, and documents. I believe I have spent enough valuable time, if nothing I asked were present, why would I not reduce my offer price? And the broker has the gut to tell me that I either buy the boat as is or leave it.
I promptly withdrew my offer and later got my deposit back.
But what a terrible first boat buying experience with yacht broker and brokage firm. The sailing and boating community deserves to know my experience.
Many thanks for your valuable time, if you made it this far.
