New to sailing and I need a simple explanation about the backstay adjustment. Going upwind we tighten the backstay (how much) and down wind ease it off (how much)? I have been told that we want to keep the headsail shape flatter upwind and downwind the shape should be more relaxed and pillow shape so as to capture as much wind as possible. I have lots of books with very technical explanations but a simple explanation without the jargon would help. Comments appreciated...
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Paul, that jargon is the language of sailing.
To understand the sport you will have to understand the language. Kinda like baseball. That might be why no one has answered your question yet.
To understand the sport you will have to understand the language. Kinda like baseball. That might be why no one has answered your question yet.
Go to the Forum on 'Sail Trim'
Don is the moderator of that forum and he has a very good book on sail trim that will answer all your questions and teach you how to sail. Learning to sail means knowing the names of things and how to use them. Its a very small investment, $15.00.
Don is the moderator of that forum and he has a very good book on sail trim that will answer all your questions and teach you how to sail. Learning to sail means knowing the names of things and how to use them. Its a very small investment, $15.00.
Fred..your are not helping
Fred Just looking for assistance not arrogance. We all have to start somewhere and you bring nothing to the table. Regards...
Fred Just looking for assistance not arrogance. We all have to start somewhere and you bring nothing to the table. Regards...
Fred...you are no help!
Fred...You give sailors a bad name with this type of response. Paul, the backstay "is" adjusted to change the shape of the headsail. A flat or round shape can be created with the pull or release on the backstay. How much, only you wil know with your boat. Each boat is different so spend some time and play. there is more to it than that so I suggest that you talk to other local sailors for their advice. Remember, there are no dumb questions....we all have to start somewhere.
Fred...You give sailors a bad name with this type of response. Paul, the backstay "is" adjusted to change the shape of the headsail. A flat or round shape can be created with the pull or release on the backstay. How much, only you wil know with your boat. Each boat is different so spend some time and play. there is more to it than that so I suggest that you talk to other local sailors for their advice. Remember, there are no dumb questions....we all have to start somewhere.
Jason...
..you are right about the adjustments on the backstay. However, I have to disagree about asking other sailors for their advice on sailing. Unfortunately, a great many sailors really don't know how to sail properly. As a novice, it would be impossible to determine who is giving correct information. You only have to look at the results of the questions asked on the sailboatowners.com web site quizes to realize just how few sailors have the needed knowledge.
..you are right about the adjustments on the backstay. However, I have to disagree about asking other sailors for their advice on sailing. Unfortunately, a great many sailors really don't know how to sail properly. As a novice, it would be impossible to determine who is giving correct information. You only have to look at the results of the questions asked on the sailboatowners.com web site quizes to realize just how few sailors have the needed knowledge.
Backstay adjustment - what???
OK - I know what you're talking about, but they are not necessary on all boats. Our C&C Shark 24 had an adjustable backstay, and it was used to adjust the fore and aft movement of the masthead. We never won a series. Our G-26 has a fixed backstay. We manage to beat the rest of our fleet (14 boats comprising C&C 25's, 27's, CS, Northerns, etc) without playing with our masthead. Our G-26 won the overall club championship in 2002, and the fleet championship in 2002 & 2003 - all without playing with a backstay adjuster. Here is pic showing us pointing "fairly well". Cheers,
OK - I know what you're talking about, but they are not necessary on all boats. Our C&C Shark 24 had an adjustable backstay, and it was used to adjust the fore and aft movement of the masthead. We never won a series. Our G-26 has a fixed backstay. We manage to beat the rest of our fleet (14 boats comprising C&C 25's, 27's, CS, Northerns, etc) without playing with our masthead. Our G-26 won the overall club championship in 2002, and the fleet championship in 2002 & 2003 - all without playing with a backstay adjuster. Here is pic showing us pointing "fairly well". Cheers,
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Be Careful
If you over-tighten your backstay, you can push your mast right through your keel -- it happened to a C&C 35 who was really into racing that I know of.
If you over-tighten your backstay, you can push your mast right through your keel -- it happened to a C&C 35 who was really into racing that I know of.
What the backstay does depends on the boat
The backstay does NOT have the same effect for all boats. On a masthead rig (forestay attached to the top of the mast) tightening the backstay tightens the forestay, which affects the shape of the leading edge of the headsail (jib or genoa). On a fractional rig (forestay attached below the masthead) tightening the backstay causes the middle of the mast to bow forward. This flattens the mainsail and opens the leech (trailing edge of the sail) at the same time. This is a very effective way to depower the mainsail when sailing upwind in very windy conditions, Many fractional rigs also have spreaders that are swept back like a jet planes wings. This improves the ability of the backstay to bend the mast. If you're a new sailor, I'd highly recommend Don Guilette's sail trim guide. It's a good general reference and at the price HOW is asking it's a bargain. However, it doesn't cover some topics (like fractional rigs with swept-back spreaders) so if you have one of these rigs you may have to search some more. Finally, don't be discouraged by the sailing jargon. Like any other sport, sailing has its own vocabulary and part of the process of becoming a sailor is to learn the lingo. For example, in the same way Eskimos allegedly have 16 words for "snow" sailors have 37 words for "rope" (and yes, "thingy" is one of the 37). Have fun!! Peter H23 "Raven"
The backstay does NOT have the same effect for all boats. On a masthead rig (forestay attached to the top of the mast) tightening the backstay tightens the forestay, which affects the shape of the leading edge of the headsail (jib or genoa). On a fractional rig (forestay attached below the masthead) tightening the backstay causes the middle of the mast to bow forward. This flattens the mainsail and opens the leech (trailing edge of the sail) at the same time. This is a very effective way to depower the mainsail when sailing upwind in very windy conditions, Many fractional rigs also have spreaders that are swept back like a jet planes wings. This improves the ability of the backstay to bend the mast. If you're a new sailor, I'd highly recommend Don Guilette's sail trim guide. It's a good general reference and at the price HOW is asking it's a bargain. However, it doesn't cover some topics (like fractional rigs with swept-back spreaders) so if you have one of these rigs you may have to search some more. Finally, don't be discouraged by the sailing jargon. Like any other sport, sailing has its own vocabulary and part of the process of becoming a sailor is to learn the lingo. For example, in the same way Eskimos allegedly have 16 words for "snow" sailors have 37 words for "rope" (and yes, "thingy" is one of the 37). Have fun!! Peter H23 "Raven"
Paul and Jason
I stick with what I said. Remember, the typed word on this web site has no ability to express 'tone' or preclude sarcasm. I'm sorry you took my post the way you did. It was not intended to cause derision. (is that a word?)
That's why H.O.W. added the emoticons. That is also why I put the dots in H.O.W.. No one here bothers, but you guys seem new to this place. P.S. To show you guys what a totally nice, good, wonderful, caring, thoughtful, supportive, cool and all around good/great guy that I am,,,, here; http://www.northsails.co.uk/media/fast/genoa/gt-step5.htm I spent all morning looking for this. I even had to learn how to use the web. But I studied for you guys, figured it out and present the above link as a token of good will,,,where is my donkey? P.S.II. You still have to learn the language to learn how to sail, not to mention safety. You can get someone hurt, real bad, if you don't know what is being said. P.S.III Paul you said "comments appreciated". I commented. P.S.IV. Jason, I beg to differ. I am helping Paul. He can't make the progress he desires, going down the wrong road. P.S.V. You can't get a drivers license without knowing that language. I'll bet 'speed zone' was on your test. Just an example of the need to know the language or pay for tickets and accidents. How's that for a metaphor? P.S.VI. Can you think of a game that is fun and rewarding without knowing it's language? P.S.VII. I quit.
I stick with what I said. Remember, the typed word on this web site has no ability to express 'tone' or preclude sarcasm. I'm sorry you took my post the way you did. It was not intended to cause derision. (is that a word?)
That's why H.O.W. added the emoticons. That is also why I put the dots in H.O.W.. No one here bothers, but you guys seem new to this place. P.S. To show you guys what a totally nice, good, wonderful, caring, thoughtful, supportive, cool and all around good/great guy that I am,,,, here; http://www.northsails.co.uk/media/fast/genoa/gt-step5.htm I spent all morning looking for this. I even had to learn how to use the web. But I studied for you guys, figured it out and present the above link as a token of good will,,,where is my donkey? P.S.II. You still have to learn the language to learn how to sail, not to mention safety. You can get someone hurt, real bad, if you don't know what is being said. P.S.III Paul you said "comments appreciated". I commented. P.S.IV. Jason, I beg to differ. I am helping Paul. He can't make the progress he desires, going down the wrong road. P.S.V. You can't get a drivers license without knowing that language. I'll bet 'speed zone' was on your test. Just an example of the need to know the language or pay for tickets and accidents. How's that for a metaphor? P.S.VI. Can you think of a game that is fun and rewarding without knowing it's language? P.S.VII. I quit.Fred...more on backstay adjustment
I checked the link to North U. The information on fractional rigs is useful, but could be confusing to a novice sailor because it shows a RUNNING backstay attached at the same height as the forestay. Unless I missed it, the fractional rig page doesn't appear to discuss the MASTHEAD backstay. Runners at the forestay attachment point can tension the forestay but can't bend the mast. The masthead backstay is a much simpler setup (runners have to switched from one side to the other when tacking the boat) but is extremely effective for bending the mast, flattening the main and opening the leech of the sail. For some reason, most books on sail trim don't explain this concept very well. Many otherwise experienced sailors can't do it either, probably because this type of rig isn't that common on cruising keelboats. On the other hand, most racers (particularly performance dinghy sailors) get it. Thanks to my "bendy" mast and adjustable masthead backstay, I've been able to sail close-hauled in heavy air, single-handed, at 15 degrees of heel with a full, flattened main, open leech and light helm when other boats were already reefed, The mind-blower for me was learning the value of pulling the traveler to windward in heavy air. It defies conventional wisdom but it works. Peter H23 "Raven"
I checked the link to North U. The information on fractional rigs is useful, but could be confusing to a novice sailor because it shows a RUNNING backstay attached at the same height as the forestay. Unless I missed it, the fractional rig page doesn't appear to discuss the MASTHEAD backstay. Runners at the forestay attachment point can tension the forestay but can't bend the mast. The masthead backstay is a much simpler setup (runners have to switched from one side to the other when tacking the boat) but is extremely effective for bending the mast, flattening the main and opening the leech of the sail. For some reason, most books on sail trim don't explain this concept very well. Many otherwise experienced sailors can't do it either, probably because this type of rig isn't that common on cruising keelboats. On the other hand, most racers (particularly performance dinghy sailors) get it. Thanks to my "bendy" mast and adjustable masthead backstay, I've been able to sail close-hauled in heavy air, single-handed, at 15 degrees of heel with a full, flattened main, open leech and light helm when other boats were already reefed, The mind-blower for me was learning the value of pulling the traveler to windward in heavy air. It defies conventional wisdom but it works. Peter H23 "Raven"
Love the lingo
No issue here. Always looking for positive help. Anyways, I have been sailing with a school for over 3 years and finally bought a boat. So I am taking the next step in the learning process and that includes the question on the backstay adjustment. Start slow and go from there. Thanks
No issue here. Always looking for positive help. Anyways, I have been sailing with a school for over 3 years and finally bought a boat. So I am taking the next step in the learning process and that includes the question on the backstay adjustment. Start slow and go from there. Thanks
backstay
I have aC 30 My split backstay is adjusted to the feel of the boat motering If the backstay is not snug the boat vibrates and sounds loud if Its adjusted right its smooth sailing. I use aloouse gage to set the back stay then go for a moter If it feels good then I take it for a sail to make final adjustment then I mark my adj with tape and lousen the rig when at moreing before we go home for the week. John
I have aC 30 My split backstay is adjusted to the feel of the boat motering If the backstay is not snug the boat vibrates and sounds loud if Its adjusted right its smooth sailing. I use aloouse gage to set the back stay then go for a moter If it feels good then I take it for a sail to make final adjustment then I mark my adj with tape and lousen the rig when at moreing before we go home for the week. John
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