HELP!!! We're new sailors. We have a H27 (75-84) with a one lung Yanmar. As expected, it backs to port. It is kept in it's slip bow in. To exit the marina we need to back to starboard when coming out of the slip. Is there any way to do that short of pulling ourselves out of the slip by hand?
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That's a Tough Situation
To go the way you want to you can't really start turning until you get past the end of the dock (because there's no room), and then the boat really doesn't want to turn the way you want. How much space is there between you and your neighbor? After casting off, if you can push the boat sideways somewhat toward your neighbor this would give some room to start initiating your turn. Alternatively, maybe having the mate walk along the dock then push the bow out and climb on? Then there are current and wind factors which will change the situation.
To go the way you want to you can't really start turning until you get past the end of the dock (because there's no room), and then the boat really doesn't want to turn the way you want. How much space is there between you and your neighbor? After casting off, if you can push the boat sideways somewhat toward your neighbor this would give some room to start initiating your turn. Alternatively, maybe having the mate walk along the dock then push the bow out and climb on? Then there are current and wind factors which will change the situation.
Join the club
I believe everyone with this boat has this problem. If you check the archives you will find a lot of info including reference to some sort of propeller attachments that are supposed to compensate. My wife and I have found backing into the slip the best alternative. We can use the port propwalk to advantage. I use the last of the boat's forward momentum to turn the bows away from the pier, then into reverse, and a shot of power to start it "crabbing" to port. My wife uses a rope or boat hook to latch on to an upright at the end of the slip and it pivots into line with the pier. I step out with a stern line and drag the the thing along. It amazes newbies but is relatively simple. THEN, when we leave the slip we run a line to a neighboring slip and loop it over a post or cleat. My wife, at the bow, holds the other end and pulls the bows around as we leave the slip. Although the propwalk is not a factor when moving forward, our marina is very close and our shoal draft bows gives the engine a fight if there is a north wind. A south wind replaces the rope. If you try backing in please note the wind direction as it dictates the timing of the operation. If backing in is not an option, you might try using a starboard side stern line that would allow you to hold the boat straight as you backed out, then when the bow was clear you could tighten up and let the line pivot the bows to port. I have not tried this so not guarantees. The drawback would be taking in the line without the propeller interfering but a floating line and/or quick action should solve that. Practice will lessen anxiety. Andy BAROQUE
I believe everyone with this boat has this problem. If you check the archives you will find a lot of info including reference to some sort of propeller attachments that are supposed to compensate. My wife and I have found backing into the slip the best alternative. We can use the port propwalk to advantage. I use the last of the boat's forward momentum to turn the bows away from the pier, then into reverse, and a shot of power to start it "crabbing" to port. My wife uses a rope or boat hook to latch on to an upright at the end of the slip and it pivots into line with the pier. I step out with a stern line and drag the the thing along. It amazes newbies but is relatively simple. THEN, when we leave the slip we run a line to a neighboring slip and loop it over a post or cleat. My wife, at the bow, holds the other end and pulls the bows around as we leave the slip. Although the propwalk is not a factor when moving forward, our marina is very close and our shoal draft bows gives the engine a fight if there is a north wind. A south wind replaces the rope. If you try backing in please note the wind direction as it dictates the timing of the operation. If backing in is not an option, you might try using a starboard side stern line that would allow you to hold the boat straight as you backed out, then when the bow was clear you could tighten up and let the line pivot the bows to port. I have not tried this so not guarantees. The drawback would be taking in the line without the propeller interfering but a floating line and/or quick action should solve that. Practice will lessen anxiety. Andy BAROQUE
Backing out of the slip: RE...
I too am a new sailor, and docking "is" harder then sailing. The wind is never at our advantage. Last year I motored into the slip, and many times hit the pilings. Softly, but still hit the pilings. This year, I grab the line on the piling and hand pull us in. Works great and no hitting the pilings. Motoring out isn't too much of a problem, but across from us are boats with their anchors sticking out from their bow. Something we don't want to hit against! Slow and carefully we exit. Can you not back into the slip?
I too am a new sailor, and docking "is" harder then sailing. The wind is never at our advantage. Last year I motored into the slip, and many times hit the pilings. Softly, but still hit the pilings. This year, I grab the line on the piling and hand pull us in. Works great and no hitting the pilings. Motoring out isn't too much of a problem, but across from us are boats with their anchors sticking out from their bow. Something we don't want to hit against! Slow and carefully we exit. Can you not back into the slip?
Use a long starboard stern spring line and...
and cast it off when it turns you. I guess it would have to be a few feet longer than the boat. When in your berth it would be very slack but when backing down will get taught and pull the boat to starboard just as your bow passes the slip. Also as suggested you may play "walk the boat" or back the boat in. HOWEVER, set your lines carefully as kissing the dock with the strongest part of the boat (bow) is a lot more forgiving than hitting with the stern. alan
and cast it off when it turns you. I guess it would have to be a few feet longer than the boat. When in your berth it would be very slack but when backing down will get taught and pull the boat to starboard just as your bow passes the slip. Also as suggested you may play "walk the boat" or back the boat in. HOWEVER, set your lines carefully as kissing the dock with the strongest part of the boat (bow) is a lot more forgiving than hitting with the stern. alan
You can try this, but...
Here's one thing you might try: Back out as straight as you can, and don't be shy with the throttle. Get moving! When you reach the point where you must have the stern to go to staboard, crank the wheel all the way to the left (yes, to the left) and push the throttle forward (yes forward). The combination of left rudder, forward prop, and prop walk will throw the stern to the right very crisply, and it will put on the brakes at the same time. Since you are already backing up fast, you'll continue to back for a while since you have a lot of "mo" working for you. Just before you lose your sternway completely, you want to get the prop going slightly in reverse and get the rudder back over to the right. Will this push the stern far enough to the left? I don't know, you'll have to try. Is this a complex maneuver? Yep, sorry. Remember, your boat will turn to the left very nimbly, especially when the prop is turning forward. It will turn almost as well to the left when backing. Try and figure out docking and departure maneuvers that will use these two characteristics to advantage. The advice to back into your slip is probably worth heeding. Just find a way to back in as you make a left turn, and it'll be easier than you think. Plus after backing in, you'll have parked your boat in the "party position." Good luck.
Here's one thing you might try: Back out as straight as you can, and don't be shy with the throttle. Get moving! When you reach the point where you must have the stern to go to staboard, crank the wheel all the way to the left (yes, to the left) and push the throttle forward (yes forward). The combination of left rudder, forward prop, and prop walk will throw the stern to the right very crisply, and it will put on the brakes at the same time. Since you are already backing up fast, you'll continue to back for a while since you have a lot of "mo" working for you. Just before you lose your sternway completely, you want to get the prop going slightly in reverse and get the rudder back over to the right. Will this push the stern far enough to the left? I don't know, you'll have to try. Is this a complex maneuver? Yep, sorry. Remember, your boat will turn to the left very nimbly, especially when the prop is turning forward. It will turn almost as well to the left when backing. Try and figure out docking and departure maneuvers that will use these two characteristics to advantage. The advice to back into your slip is probably worth heeding. Just find a way to back in as you make a left turn, and it'll be easier than you think. Plus after backing in, you'll have parked your boat in the "party position." Good luck.
Dock Stern First
.. It sounds like your dock set up is like mine. If you need to back to starboard upon leaving the slip, then entering the slip stern first should be a managable backing to port. Leaving bow first is then a piece of cake. If your dock has a small finger pier, its also easier to board the boat with stern in first.
.. It sounds like your dock set up is like mine. If you need to back to starboard upon leaving the slip, then entering the slip stern first should be a managable backing to port. Leaving bow first is then a piece of cake. If your dock has a small finger pier, its also easier to board the boat with stern in first.
P-42 docking
I have read this dialouge with much interest I recently bought a used P-42 and am still not sure whether my docking problems are wind related or prop throw related. It feels like the boat backs to port easily but is difficult to starboard. I want to stern dock the boat because of the sugar scoop but that manuever requires a starboard reverse to accomplish and always seems to be difficult.
I have read this dialouge with much interest I recently bought a used P-42 and am still not sure whether my docking problems are wind related or prop throw related. It feels like the boat backs to port easily but is difficult to starboard. I want to stern dock the boat because of the sugar scoop but that manuever requires a starboard reverse to accomplish and always seems to be difficult.
i pull out by hand and swear by it.
I have an amazing anxiety about pulling in and out, I do it all my hand now. Saves a lot of worry and embarrassment. My boat is only a 23 though.
I have an amazing anxiety about pulling in and out, I do it all my hand now. Saves a lot of worry and embarrassment. My boat is only a 23 though.
Movable fenders
While you are learning new techniques, it helps to have a person or 2 dangle a fender over the side and walk around, moving it to where you are in danger of bumping. This also gives the kids something to do (if you have some).
While you are learning new techniques, it helps to have a person or 2 dangle a fender over the side and walk around, moving it to where you are in danger of bumping. This also gives the kids something to do (if you have some).
Rudder Authority
The boat turns by means of water flow past the rudder. Once you get your boat moving aft quickly enough, you should have steerage and eventually enough steerage to counteract any prop walk. Usually a short strong burst of reverse power will get the boat moving sufficiently to control it. Use power to get it moving and keep it moving otherwise glide along in neutral. Some practice backing the boat will give you an idea of how much boat speed you need to turn it and to turn it in opposition to any prop walk.
The boat turns by means of water flow past the rudder. Once you get your boat moving aft quickly enough, you should have steerage and eventually enough steerage to counteract any prop walk. Usually a short strong burst of reverse power will get the boat moving sufficiently to control it. Use power to get it moving and keep it moving otherwise glide along in neutral. Some practice backing the boat will give you an idea of how much boat speed you need to turn it and to turn it in opposition to any prop walk.
Bursts of reverse
Can get you moving backwards. Your rudder can then steer effectively between bursts. This works for me 90 percent of the time. But if the wind is above 15 knots, I just can't turn Lady Lillie in a circle to starboard against the wind on the bow. So some version of spring line, walking out, or pushing is the answer. Be thankful that the h27 hull is light enough to move easily, even with the Admiral doing the pushing. Try it on a 10 ton hull sometime! I am finally at the point where solving this puzzle is a fun part of the sailing game! David
Can get you moving backwards. Your rudder can then steer effectively between bursts. This works for me 90 percent of the time. But if the wind is above 15 knots, I just can't turn Lady Lillie in a circle to starboard against the wind on the bow. So some version of spring line, walking out, or pushing is the answer. Be thankful that the h27 hull is light enough to move easily, even with the Admiral doing the pushing. Try it on a 10 ton hull sometime! I am finally at the point where solving this puzzle is a fun part of the sailing game! David
Non-Slip propeller tips
Our H-34 had similar problems including the same docking situation you describe. Had Kilian Propellers in California put non-slip tips on the ends of our prop blades and re-pitched it a bit. This reduced our prop walk problem enough to make the boat much more controllable and predictible. They have a website, I can't remember the site name but a search for Kilian Propellers will probably get you there. Cost about $125 and was well worth it! Check it out! Charles Duhon "Artistry" www.ArtistryMarineArt.com
Our H-34 had similar problems including the same docking situation you describe. Had Kilian Propellers in California put non-slip tips on the ends of our prop blades and re-pitched it a bit. This reduced our prop walk problem enough to make the boat much more controllable and predictible. They have a website, I can't remember the site name but a search for Kilian Propellers will probably get you there. Cost about $125 and was well worth it! Check it out! Charles Duhon "Artistry" www.ArtistryMarineArt.com
Charles! You must be a Kilian Believer
Charles: Did you have that process done at Kilian Props in the SF Bay area? They are no longer in business. Bob Kilian is now with Bay Props in Alameda, CA., FYI.
Charles: Did you have that process done at Kilian Props in the SF Bay area? They are no longer in business. Bob Kilian is now with Bay Props in Alameda, CA., FYI.
"Nigel Calder's Cruising Handbook"
Calder's new book has an excellent section on docking, which covers most of the techniques mentioned here, including pictures and diagrams to clarify the steps. One other thing that can help, especially if your pier is short or otherwise hard to step on and off: Run lines fore-and-aft from the inboard pier to the outboard pier on each side. Keep them fairly taut, and about 5 feet or so above the water. They're good to grab with the boathook, you can pull the boat partway in or out with them, and if you leave your docklines at the slip, they can be draped over the fore-and-aft lines.
Calder's new book has an excellent section on docking, which covers most of the techniques mentioned here, including pictures and diagrams to clarify the steps. One other thing that can help, especially if your pier is short or otherwise hard to step on and off: Run lines fore-and-aft from the inboard pier to the outboard pier on each side. Keep them fairly taut, and about 5 feet or so above the water. They're good to grab with the boathook, you can pull the boat partway in or out with them, and if you leave your docklines at the slip, they can be draped over the fore-and-aft lines.
Back in
Since your post says you "must back to starboard" when leaving, I am assuming you are in an inside slip with a seawall or something to port. One thing I have learned is that the impossible slip to back out of always makes a great slip to back in to. The port prop walk will bring you in nicely. How to do it? Start early in the fairway. Get up a good head of speed, you can always use forward to slow down. Read the wind, and use the port prop walk to help "kick" you in.
Since your post says you "must back to starboard" when leaving, I am assuming you are in an inside slip with a seawall or something to port. One thing I have learned is that the impossible slip to back out of always makes a great slip to back in to. The port prop walk will bring you in nicely. How to do it? Start early in the fairway. Get up a good head of speed, you can always use forward to slow down. Read the wind, and use the port prop walk to help "kick" you in.
Backing to Stbd
We have a similar slip situation requiring a turn to stbd when backing from our slip. Prop walk tends to push the boat to port. I use a spring line that goes from the aft stbd mooring cleat on the boat to a dock ring at the end of the stbd finger dock and back to the cockpit. As I back out of the slip, I hold enough tension on the spring line to keep the boat backing straight. When the bow clears the finger dock, I hold the spring line taught so the momentum swings the bow to port and the stern to stbd. Once clear of the dock, I let go of the spring line and reel it into the boat. Mike s/v Charisma 82 H36
We have a similar slip situation requiring a turn to stbd when backing from our slip. Prop walk tends to push the boat to port. I use a spring line that goes from the aft stbd mooring cleat on the boat to a dock ring at the end of the stbd finger dock and back to the cockpit. As I back out of the slip, I hold enough tension on the spring line to keep the boat backing straight. When the bow clears the finger dock, I hold the spring line taught so the momentum swings the bow to port and the stern to stbd. Once clear of the dock, I let go of the spring line and reel it into the boat. Mike s/v Charisma 82 H36
Carisea response
We own a Passage 42, and you are correct, backing in is great with the step down transom. Ours has a 3 blade prop, and I find it very easy to back into a slip. Really no big trick other than enough speed to maintain steerage in NEUTRAL. So, go past the fairway with the fairway entrance at your port stern. Back into the fairway using the port prop walk to make the turn in and get speed up for the straight run down the fairway to your slip in neutral. Use short reverse/forward bursts to increase/reduce speed. Take a deep breath, turn in to slip, careful with the bow swing...and there you are! Practicing in the fairway on a calm day is a good exercise. Good luck!
We own a Passage 42, and you are correct, backing in is great with the step down transom. Ours has a 3 blade prop, and I find it very easy to back into a slip. Really no big trick other than enough speed to maintain steerage in NEUTRAL. So, go past the fairway with the fairway entrance at your port stern. Back into the fairway using the port prop walk to make the turn in and get speed up for the straight run down the fairway to your slip in neutral. Use short reverse/forward bursts to increase/reduce speed. Take a deep breath, turn in to slip, careful with the bow swing...and there you are! Practicing in the fairway on a calm day is a good exercise. Good luck!
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