Backing out of a slip Against the wind

Joe · Sep 9, 2012

Backing out of a down wind slip........ short bursts on the prop to get the vessel moving, gain steerage and minimize the prop walk. Back all the way across the fair way before making your turn... or the wind will blow the bow back before you can complete it.

On an upwind slip, when backing out you can turn right away because the wind will push the bow out into the fairway. Most people start the turn way too soon when backing out of a downwind slip and get blown back into their neighbors. If you go all the way across, you will also get in the lee of the boats on that side and it will minimize the adverse wind effect on the bow.

You can also double slip a dock line around a starboard piling or dock cleat, the longest line you can find......pay it out as you keep the boat moving straight back till you feel the rudder biting....put the loop end over the winch, near the helm, so it's easy to reach, then slip the line and get it back in the boat before shifting into forward gear.

NC-C320 · Sep 9, 2012

Another technique:

Cleat off a line at your starboard stern cleat (since boat walks in reverse to port), pass line around the outer slip piling or cleat and back to the boat. Snub this end of the line on the cleat also, but tend it by hand. As the boat tries to walk to port as it moves back, place a little tension on the line to pull the stern back to starboard. It won't take much tension. When clear of the slip, cast off one end and quickly retreive the line, taking care not to let it get into the prop.

Warren Milberg · Sep 9, 2012

When backing out of my slip when the wind is pushing the bow the "wrong" way, I go with the flow, that is, just continue backing all the way out of the fairway rather than struggle to try to get the bow turned the "right" way. It may look funny to be backing all the way out of the fairway, but (1) it works, and (2) whatever works, works....

But I feel your pain and agony of what you went through in HdG. My guess is that everyone of us here has at one time or another been in similar situations. I certainly have...

Stu Jackson · Sep 9, 2012

Your story should be seen as an inspiration, to you! Good work. Consider it, as the advice given by the other skippers, as a learning experience. And prop walk? While it's been beaten to death over the years, here and on other boating forums, the answer always remains: most skippers do not use enough throttle to get the boat moving and the rudder to gain control.

We had a high (20 kt) port side wind a few weeks ago when leaving a dock, and had to go up the fairway to port, into the wind. I just backed out the fairway. It required gunning the throttle, big time, which most people are adverse to doing for some bizarre reason. Which was the ONLY way anyone was gonna do it that day. While I saw a few attempt to swing their bows around, they were dealing with real dangers to them and the docked other boats.

And. if in doubt, stay put and wait.

Also, one never knows the quality of "help" one will receive from people who come to help. I dock singlehanded many, many times, and the maneuver usually gets fouled up by those who want to help. I've actually stopped running a bow line on the boat, and use only the midships spring line and a stern line until I get settled in. Most people on the dock pull in on the bow line and screw up my docking.

Tim R. · Sep 9, 2012

I agree with Stu. Sometimes you have to power through. Yesterday coming into the slip, 20+ kt winds blowing across the bow before the final turn. Had to keep the speed up to maintain control. Also needed a final goose to get the back end around. I usually glide in this entire way in N.

I never hand the bow line to anyone who is not experienced unless I have to and then I try to be very clear. Around one horn and do not pull. Just keep it parallel.

justsomeguy · Sep 9, 2012

Tim R. said:
I agree with Stu. Sometimes you have to power through. Yesterday coming into the slip, 20+ kt winds blowing across the bow before the final turn. Had to keep the speed up to maintain control.

Me, too.

onecoolair · Sep 9, 2012

Don't feel bad....

MLampner said:
OK, lets start with this first truth in hindsight I did something stupid. It won't be the first time and it certainly won't be the last so some thoughts and input to prevent at least this same issue would be helpful.

This particular stupidity started with an engine problem but was not caused by it. I bring it up only as a point of reference for why I may have done something this stupid or if nothing else would not have found myself in this situation.

I was sailing from Middle River to Harve de Grace for a solo overnight, something I had not done before, had been their twice before but with my more experienced friends as crew. Have been only sailing five years and only have owned a boat big enough for this the last three.

With the wind near nothing the second half of the day I gave in and turned on the engine, which ran beautifully till it didn't. Thought I knew the problem had the parts but it was getting dark, my destination was still about 6 miles away and while the wind was piping back up and coming from a useful quarter I decided it would be smarter to deal with the engine in daylight and not push my luck with the narrow channel with out the engine as backup. Perhaps that and fixing the engine were the last two smart things I did.

I didn't get much sleep that night as I was anchored just out of the channel and lots of speedboaters came by late that evening, then I discovered that while I had let out enough scope, it was enough that when the wind shifted I blew into a batch of crab pots so I had to shorten up the line. Then I was thinking about the repairs.

In any case got to Harve de Grace and that is where the stupidity kicked in. My Hunter walks heavily to port in reverse. I need lots of room to back into a slip. After three attempts and no clear sign of how I was going to do this I gave up and pulled in nose first. First mistake. Then I tied up got a nap and went out to wander town. Came back aboard and went to bed, woke up around 2 in the morning realizing the wind had come up and shifted and I was now hitting the finger pier. Got dressed and went up top to adjust the lines. Checked the forecast and discovered that the weather was going to be ok in the AM but go down hill fast after lunch. Spent much of the remainder of the night not sleeping trying to figure out how to recover my dock lines and get out of the slip. Second mistake, should have stayed put till later when I could have had help but decided I knew how to get her out and left the slip about 6 AM, got out and got clear but the prop walk was making her hard to keep clear of the boats along side of me. Wind was coming out of the east and I was backing right into it. Now in the fairway I found that no matter what I did could not get enough speed to gain steerage to keep off the boats on the lee side. I quickly came to rest on the bows of the boats on that side. Won't bore you with more details but suffice to say bad as it was I wasn't damaging them or my own boat and I made my third mistake continuing to try and get the boat free. If I pushed the bow off the stern got pushed onto a boat behind and the opposite if I pushed the stern off. Eventually several people sleeping aboard heard this came off and rescued me by pushing me off at either end.

As I say I should have stayed where I was and asked the marina to help get me out, either by towing me out or by putting a few people aboard to help fend off till I could get her clear which I could have then dropped at the fuel dock.

But the question is if you have made the second mistake and pulled out of a slip and found yourself unable to control the boat and not able to get back in and resting on other boats while you are alone are there any ways to get yourself out of this trouble or are you doomed to look like the fool you are and just have to wait to be recused. Looking back I realized I might have been able to kedge the boat off by using two anchors, one front one back and walking her away from the other boats but I am not sure having done that that I would still have the same problem the Second I tried to lift the anchors and the bow or stern swung back to the lee.

By the way there seemed to be no damage to anyone but my boat, I broke the weld on a stanchion which leads to a second posting I will make in the Cherubini section of the Hunter forums.

Don't feel bad....
I got into situation like that once 10 years ago with my new H356. My problem was the idiot with the outboard motor tilted up and sticking almost 2 feet past the slip pilings. No way to have that extra 12"s to get things back in control. All I could do to minimize the problem was to just totally stop the boat and run forward with a boat cushion dropping to my stomach to hang over the side with the cushion to stop a hole from being punched into the side of my new boat. Got the cushion in place just in time. It was close, very close!! All I could do was to just lay there and patiently wait till all my neighbors could rally around to help.

Bill1565 · Sep 10, 2012

All good advice. here's some more. PRACTICE BACKING .

Start in open water, work your way up to close quarters. You will learn to give bursts of power and wait till the boat starts moving in reverse. Note it is some more difficult to hold a course with water flowing the "wrong " way over the rudder.

cygnussailor · Sep 10, 2012

Warren Milberg said:
It may look funny to be backing all the way out of the fairway, but (1) it works, and (2) whatever works, works....

I agree with Warren. My home marina has a lot of strong south winds during the summer. In spite of prop walk, which in my case should help, my bow will start blowing down before I can get it headed up. So, I just let it blow down and back out the fairway that leads to my slip. By the time I get to the main fairway, which is 90 degrees to the side fairway, I have enough speed in reverse to force the bow around into the wind and gain forward propulsion.

kloudie1 · Sep 10, 2012

Same here.. several times when the wind didn't cooperate, I backed all the way out to the bayou .. Just be really sure you have a good grip on the wheel/tiller because the force balance will make the rudder slam into the stop if you loosen your grip! Things can get broken that way !

Brazilu2 · Sep 10, 2012

Always overcome Prop walk with Hull speed, give the throttle a full reverse until you have enough water through the rudder to have full control. There is no reason once you are moving in reverse and have full helm control to stop and change directions, until you reach an open area and take in account tide and wind direction. Hunters back up very nicely, I have a 376 model and never have had a reversing control issue. Remember speed equals control, don't be apprehensive.

Cwoody · Sep 10, 2012

I think you did the only thing you could once you got stuck. Hold her in place and wait for help.
You will notice from the current "Quick Quiz" that you are not the first to get hung up going in or out of a slip. You got your first single handed sail under your belt and a few lessons learned.

I have been going over all kinds of different "worst case" scenarios as I plan my first single handed sail. I will add your story to my list.
I have been practicing backing into my slip in light air conditions. If the wind is up (+15) and out of the west at my slip it will be coming across the starboard bow and makes backing in very challenging. In similar conditions I have been paying close attention to the more experienced sailors on my dock as they depart and arrive. Backing in and out of the fairway is a common practice. Pulling into slip bow first with wind at your back and tying off the upwind stern line seems to be the preferred method. I plan to try this with crew onboard a few times be for going it alone.

The only thing you can count on is that as soon as you think you have one scenario figured the conditions will change.

Good luck and thanks for the story.

btw: I am installing a 3 blade prop in hopes of reducing some of the prop walk.

Roland5048 · Sep 10, 2012

CWoody, It has always been my experience that going from a 2-bladed to 3-bladed prop, ( if that's what you are doing),actually increases prop walk. If you practice and get comfortable with it, prop walk can, at times, be your best friend in docking situations.
Capt. Roland
S/V Fraulein II '77h30
Tarpon Springs, Fl

spuki · Sep 10, 2012

We have owned two Hunter sailboats in the past. One with an outboard and the other with an inboard engine. Backing has always been an experience or should I say experiences. Just when you think you have a handle on it something happens to make it a different experience. Sometimes short bursts help, and sometimes slinging around a piling gets you out. Overcoming the windage once out is another challenge.

ForeverYoung · Sep 10, 2012

Bill1565 said:
All good advice. here's some more. PRACTICE BACKING .

Start in open water, work your way up to close quarters. You will learn to give bursts of power and wait till the boat starts moving in reverse. Note it is some more difficult to hold a course with water flowing the "wrong " way over the rudder.

Backing is something that used to always get me, especially with the prop walk. My poor old boat had the cr*p beat out of her by pylons backing out of a slip because I was always too fast or slow.

Once whilst waiting for a bridge on the ICW, I decided to try backing up to a buoy from different directions, it only took a few times to 'feel' the boat, and I have backed everywhere ever since..

I totally second the open water comment. I turn in the open freeway, and go right down the row of slips.

To start you must give her full throttle, and turn around in the cockpit if you have room. Facing the direction you're heading is so much easier than craning your neck backwards.

I also start with the rudder to about 45o opposite the direction prop walk pulls me. That creates counter resistance and helps you recover steerage in a much shorter distance.

Once you feel yourself turning back the other way, you can straighten back up and drop to idle (or a bit above) the rest of the way in.

I find it 100x easier to back in a slip than backing out, because you can start in the freeway and have so much more room to get the speed and maneuvrability you need.

- OH, and remember that the steering 'pivot point' in reverse is more back in the cockpit, not centered around the keel as in forward..

I have uploaded a quick video of me backing into Crisfield, MD this July as an example - http://www.internetmark.com/1530.h.Backing_to_Crisfield_MD

Hope that helps..

Capt. JG · Sep 10, 2012

bow into slip with a heavy cross-wind isn't fun either

I had a similar situation come up as happened in the "Backing out of a slip Against the wind" thread. I should have just waited, but...

Basically, we had sustained wind over 20kts, which is very rare in the marina, although a light cross-wind is typical. The fairway is rather narrow, and when I turned to point the bow into the slip, I misjudged the turn and came up a bit further downwind than I planned. I normally back out of my slip to port, then power through the wind in reverse in a U-shape turn, and then power forward. As someone else said, it looks funny but it works. In this case, putting the boat in reverse did not do anything more than keep me off my neighbor's stern in the next slip downwind from mine. (I normally begin my backing turn just as the spreaders clear the end of the finger.)

I managed to get the boat (using forward and reverse) to move sideways up (upwind) the fairway. At this point, another boat was coming in (of course), so I had to stop shuttling out. When I did this, the wind immediately pushed my bow down again. This time, I decided to shuttle back and forth only down wind (with much less engine), sideways down the fairway. I was able to keep the propwalk away by pulsing in reverse after I got moving. When I got lined up to my slip with the bow slightly upwind of the stern, I gave the engine a big punch forward, missing the upwind piling (barely), and made a smooth docking.

scottthardin · Sep 10, 2012

I go backwards as long as it takes to get in the clear. No shame in turning a 35' boat around and into a 5' boat as I see it. Concept works just as well when arriving as departing.

Andy1237 · Sep 10, 2012

Also remember, if reverse walks to port..forward usually walks to starboard or vice versa.

bbowman294 · Sep 11, 2012

IMHO, the most important thing here is that you learned something. Hopefully you won't do it again.
I've run aground not once but twice!! Different circumstances each time, but both - stupid. Hopefully I've learned something too.
Two old adages apply:
1) Constant diligence is the price you pay to go to sea.
and
2) If you've never run aground (or had an accident), you've never been cruising.....or so they say.