B361 mast bend

bshock

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Jan 18, 2013
126
Beneteau 361 Sandusky Harbor Marina


Hi All, I've posted this on a couple other sailing sites, but I should have posted it hear first.

I read through Seldon's mast tuning guide, as well as some other less formal guides when tuning my mast recently, and I got all the shrouds/stays tensioned correctly. this being my first time tuning a mast, however, I'm second guessing myself. The mast is in column. Is this amount of mast bend appropriate?

I do not have a backstay adjuster.

Any help is very much appreciated. :)
 
Nov 23, 2009
437
Beneteau Oceanis 361 Clipper --
Most important thing is to get the mast straight (side to side I mean), meaning correct tension of stays. The bend ( by the way these masts are pre bend) is really up to you and to conditions. Since you have a classic main sail you can have as much bend as you want ( just play with the back stays).
 
Sep 24, 2006
236
Sabre 36 Express Chattanooga, TN
Masthead rig

Hate to disagree with Philip, but the B361 is a masthead rig. Therefore, no amount of backstay tension will affect the mast bend. It will only affect the headstay tension. The bend is affected by the baby stay mostly -- more tension = more bend. Some shroud (side stay) tension will affect the bend since the shrouds are attached to the boat aft of the masthead.

"Mast in column" is the strongest mast. If the designer had wanted to flatten the main with mast bend, he would have designed the boat with a fractional rig. The B361 is a cruising boat, not a racing boat. It points very well for a cruiser and the rig should be tight, not sloppy and loose. However, the baby stay is primarily there to prevent "mast pumping" in a rough sea, not to induce mast bend for a flatter main.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Agaliha
 
Nov 23, 2009
437
Beneteau Oceanis 361 Clipper --
Hate to disagree with Philip, but the B361 is a masthead rig. Therefore, no amount of backstay tension will affect the mast bend. It will only affect the headstay tension. The bend is affected by the baby stay mostly -- more tension = more bend. Some shroud (side stay) tension will affect the bend since the shrouds are attached to the boat aft of the masthead.

"Mast in column" is the strongest mast. If the designer had wanted to flatten the main with mast bend, he would have designed the boat with a fractional rig. The B361 is a cruising boat, not a racing boat. It points very well for a cruiser and the rig should be tight, not sloppy and loose. However, the baby stay is primarily there to prevent "mast pumping" in a rough sea, not to induce mast bend for a flatter main.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Agaliha
Agaliha, I agree that the baby stay affects A LOT the bend.

Probably I am confusing mast bend with mast rake. I say this because I have a furling mast so it's important to keep it as straight as possible for the mechanism to work smoothly. Last time I replaced my forestay I installed a turnbuckle. The reason for this was to adjust the tension of the forestay without touching the backstays that affect the mast rake (or is it bend??? I think it's most probably rake because it begins from very low at the mast rather than the middle, not bend).

 

bshock

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Jan 18, 2013
126
Beneteau 361 Sandusky Harbor Marina
Thanks again all, examining Philip's graphic of mast bend vs. mast rake, it appears i have mast rake, not bend. It doesn't appear, to me at least, to bulge forward, but rather seems to "rake" toward the aft.
 
Oct 27, 2010
119
E-22 e-22 Stratford
Mast/bend/rake

I'm late to this post, but I see the discussion of mast rake vs. mast bend.

Here's the skinny: Your rake is fixed...as the Oceanis series have a fixed length forestay (unless swapped out aftermarket). This means the amount of rake (the inclination of the mast fore and aft) cannot be changed.
Most of this vintage boats...361, 393 etcetera have around 12-14" of rake depending on the model. This can be measured by hanging a bucket of weight from the main halyard..it will hang straight down and you can measure between the plum line of the halyard and the mast. Measure at the boom. Halyard will be 12-14' aft of the back face of the mast. This is conditional of course on the boat floating perfect..so expect some variance.

Mast bend: On these rigs mast bend is induced by the cap shroud (upper shroud) tension. As you tighten the caps they they load up the spreaders and since these are angled aft, the compression loading of the spreaders pushes the middle of the mast forward..bending the mast. The tighter they are, the more bend you will have.
The AFT lowers are also sometimes called checkstays...as they come into the mast at spreader height and keep the mast from bending too far forward.
The babystay isn't really used to bend the rig fore aft but to help prevent the middle of the mast from moving backwards (as can happen in very rough seas) and in doing so keeps the mast 'in column' and is much safer.

The question of mast bend depends on two things first and foremost:
1. Roller furling main?
2. Classic main?
The furling mainsail rig should be set up with a minimum amount of mast bend. Most riggers keep it down to 1-1.5" of bend fore and aft. Anymore than this and you will start to interfere with the mainsail furler and extrusion inside the mast and the sail will not furl smoothly.
3. For the Classic Mainsails mast bend depends largely on how full or flat the mainsail was designed or has become. Our Neil Pryde mains are designed for about 3-3.5" of bend....but this too is a moving target, because if you sail in San Francisco for instance in the summer...you'll want a 'flatter' mainsail...and this can be easily done by increasing the mast bend and thus flattening the sail shape.
Conversely...Long Island sound boats might want a bit more power for light air and might set up the boat with less bend which makes the main fuller.

bob pattison



Hi All, I've posted this on a couple other sailing sites, but I should have posted it hear first.

I read through Seldon's mast tuning guide, as well as some other less formal guides when tuning my mast recently, and I got all the shrouds/stays tensioned correctly. this being my first time tuning a mast, however, I'm second guessing myself. The mast is in column. Is this amount of mast bend appropriate?

I do not have a backstay adjuster.

Any help is very much appreciated. :)[/quote]
 
Feb 26, 2007
102
Beneteau 361 Quebec
Thank you Bob for the info, very well explained. How can I find out if my boat is floating perfect? Is there a place, like flat section at the base mast that I can put a level and adjust the weight distribution to balance my sailboat? I noticed that my sailboat list to port by 1 or 2 degree so I am now putting more stuff on the starboard side. I would like to adjust my mast this spring but I am a bit scary.

Thanks
Georges
 
Nov 24, 2012
586
Thank you Bob for the info, very well explained. How can I find out if my boat is floating perfect? Is there a place, like flat section at the base mast that I can put a level and adjust the weight distribution to balance my sailboat? I noticed that my sailboat list to port by 1 or 2 degree so I am now putting more stuff on the starboard side. I would like to adjust my mast this spring but I am a bit scary. Thanks Georges
Georges, you don't want to adjust the mast and shrouds to compensate for a slight list. It's easier to adjust the weight including placing semi permanent weights (like extra batteries) on the high side. Most production boats aren't perfectly level because of tank, galley, head locations. Expanding on the previous post run a tape from the top of the mast to identical locations on both sides of the rail. Center the mast then tension per the manual.
 
Feb 26, 2007
102
Beneteau 361 Quebec
Hi Captn TJ,
Sorry, I think I was not clear on my post. I don't want to adjust the list with the mast. I want to find out the best place, if there is one, to put a level and then adjust the list by redistributing or adding weight. To adjust the list on the port side I have installed 2 6V AGM batteries in the upper side of the starboard locker, that solved the list.
To measure the rake, like explained by Bob, I need to get the boat to float level otherwise I will not get the correct value. I believe that my boat aft is heavy and that she is not level aft to fore and I would like to measure that and correct it before adjusting my mast unless you believe that this is not possible to adjust on a 361.
Thanks for the help and suggestions.
Georges
 
Nov 24, 2012
586
Georges I've used a 4' level placed across the companionway top to give me a general sense of list Then adjusted weight accordingly.
 
Oct 27, 2010
119
E-22 e-22 Stratford
trim

Georges,
As others mentioned, 'proper' sailing trim can be affected by everything from having more than a normal amount of anchor chain in the anchor locker, to full or part full tanks.
No two boats will ever quite be the same.
Your fore and aft mast rake is fixed..because of the non-adjustable forestay, so this is not a worry.

As far as being plumb side to side..I would do as you are...just balance it out with gear. But at some point you just have to live with what you have, as gear alone might not balance the boat. And all of this could change as you move or use the 'moveable' ballast.
I like the idea of the plank..and then moving some of the less used (spare battery for instance) to help...but it will be trial and error.

b


Thank you Bob for the info, very well explained. How can I find out if my boat is floating perfect? Is there a place, like flat section at the base mast that I can put a level and adjust the weight distribution to balance my sailboat? I noticed that my sailboat list to port by 1 or 2 degree so I am now putting more stuff on the starboard side. I would like to adjust my mast this spring but I am a bit scary.

Thanks
Georges