I am buying a H356. My intention is to do extensive cruising, first the Caribbean, then perhaps world-wide. I owned power boats all my life, cruising extensively the Bahamas. I have had an Ericson 30+ for the last 5 years, but mostly motored in the Bahamas - thus my selfimposed ignorance of sail (I did own a Hobie Cat years ago). I love the 356. It's the sexyist boat in its class. And, Hunter has upgraded production quality enormously. But my main reservation regarding the 356 is whether the B&R rig is up-to-the-task of sustaining the much greater stress and cyclic loading involved in world cruising as compaired to the normal usage given it buy a family buyer (a world cruise involves more or less 250 days of round the clock sailing - probably equal to 10 years of family sailing). The second concern re: B&R rig is that in world cruising much of the running is in the trade-winds, running down wind. Not being able to wing-out the main sail involves tacking downwind. So, I am asking myself if a boat with a masthead rig would be a better choice? Would some of you cruisers or anyone with thoughts on this please help me regarding these concerns? Thanks. Charles Frick
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rigging
i recently posted about rigging in a string called "hunter bashers be damned". i discussed the fact that hunter still had all of the original rigging spec's for my boat,a 1989 hunter '45. anyway, i said that i was going with sailnet to replace my rigging, $saved quality. they have recently relocated to charleston, sc and, while coincidently on family business in charleston, stopped into thier shop (nice shop , by the way) and through talking to thier rigging guy simultaneuosly with hunter on the phone we figured out the whole rigging scheme of the swept back spreaders and b-n-r rig. there is alot of redundancy and overkill employed in this type of rig. if you are talking about long term in terms of durability, you will be fine- more than fine. in terms of sailing downwind, don't make any bets on who'll get there first.
i recently posted about rigging in a string called "hunter bashers be damned". i discussed the fact that hunter still had all of the original rigging spec's for my boat,a 1989 hunter '45. anyway, i said that i was going with sailnet to replace my rigging, $saved quality. they have recently relocated to charleston, sc and, while coincidently on family business in charleston, stopped into thier shop (nice shop , by the way) and through talking to thier rigging guy simultaneuosly with hunter on the phone we figured out the whole rigging scheme of the swept back spreaders and b-n-r rig. there is alot of redundancy and overkill employed in this type of rig. if you are talking about long term in terms of durability, you will be fine- more than fine. in terms of sailing downwind, don't make any bets on who'll get there first.
B&R
Charles I own a Hunter 410 that has been in Sunsail's charter fleet in the BVI for 4.5 years. I don't think you would be sailing as many days as "Carolina Dreamer" gets used each year. I usually sail her 3 weeks per year. I was on her last month and everything was in great shape. Sunsail had a professonal engineer write an evaluation on each boats rigging and then had a rigger tune the rigging. They also replaced the sails and all electronics. In fact the boat was in better shape that when I took possession when she was new due to all the little stuff from the factory that needed attention. When I was meeting with the dock guys they told me that some on the 3__ something Hunters had been demasted and that was why they were evaluating every one in their fleet. I just sailed a new French 43 DS in St Maarten and missed the B
Charles I own a Hunter 410 that has been in Sunsail's charter fleet in the BVI for 4.5 years. I don't think you would be sailing as many days as "Carolina Dreamer" gets used each year. I usually sail her 3 weeks per year. I was on her last month and everything was in great shape. Sunsail had a professonal engineer write an evaluation on each boats rigging and then had a rigger tune the rigging. They also replaced the sails and all electronics. In fact the boat was in better shape that when I took possession when she was new due to all the little stuff from the factory that needed attention. When I was meeting with the dock guys they told me that some on the 3__ something Hunters had been demasted and that was why they were evaluating every one in their fleet. I just sailed a new French 43 DS in St Maarten and missed the B
More to it than the rig...
Some misc. rambling... Keeping the rig vertical will keep you mobile, but of course there's alot more to it if you're planning on "going around." I'd worry about those huge aft lockers first. Have those babies smashed open in a following sea could ruin your day. I'd probably beef up the latches and hinges. The scoop-stern is not a good design for foul-weather survivability. That said... The 356 has a CE classification of "A" i.e. rated for general offshore use ... 40-foot wave class if I remember right. This is the highest rating. I'm conflicted about roller-furl vs. a standard reefing system for serious offshore work. There's nothing like just rolling in 3 feet of sail when things get a bit "rodeo". On the other hand, get that sail stuck out there in a blow due to a jammed furler, and you're in deep kimshi. For me it's an easy choice. I don't plan on rounding the Horn, just some easy coastal work in fine weather windows... so the 356 RF would be a perfect solution. Now if I can just scape up the dough...
Some misc. rambling... Keeping the rig vertical will keep you mobile, but of course there's alot more to it if you're planning on "going around." I'd worry about those huge aft lockers first. Have those babies smashed open in a following sea could ruin your day. I'd probably beef up the latches and hinges. The scoop-stern is not a good design for foul-weather survivability. That said... The 356 has a CE classification of "A" i.e. rated for general offshore use ... 40-foot wave class if I remember right. This is the highest rating. I'm conflicted about roller-furl vs. a standard reefing system for serious offshore work. There's nothing like just rolling in 3 feet of sail when things get a bit "rodeo". On the other hand, get that sail stuck out there in a blow due to a jammed furler, and you're in deep kimshi. For me it's an easy choice. I don't plan on rounding the Horn, just some easy coastal work in fine weather windows... so the 356 RF would be a perfect solution. Now if I can just scape up the dough...
B&R one of the best rigs for Tradewind cruising!
Automatically associating the Tradewind belts with great downwind sailing only may make sense for square-riggers and full-keeled crab crushers. However, it completely misses the point that cruisers with modern underbodies plus powerful upwind rigs, such as the B&R, can enjoy some of the most glorious beating to windward in the tradewind belts to be had anywhere in the world. Unless you are planning a West-about circumnavigation or only want to sail down the coconut milk route and have your vessel brought home by delivery crew or vessel ferry, there is inevitably the point that you will need to make your Easting again. Our friends with heavy vessels do this via their annual higher latitude pilgrimage (i.e. via New Zealand and Tonga here in the S. Paific) and quite often do get clobbered in the process. This, of course, reaffirms their belief that their vessel needs to be as strong as a tank..... an so on and so forth. We just simply point Rivendel (our Hunter Legend 43 with B&R rig), towards the East and start sailing. So, how do we sail our B&R rig downwind? If I don't feel too lazy I pole the 110 genoa and the staysail out on opposite tacks and sail wing-on-wing with the two jibs (see link). If that is not fast enough for you, get a small cruising spinnaker or drifter. Have fun, Flying Dutchman
Automatically associating the Tradewind belts with great downwind sailing only may make sense for square-riggers and full-keeled crab crushers. However, it completely misses the point that cruisers with modern underbodies plus powerful upwind rigs, such as the B&R, can enjoy some of the most glorious beating to windward in the tradewind belts to be had anywhere in the world. Unless you are planning a West-about circumnavigation or only want to sail down the coconut milk route and have your vessel brought home by delivery crew or vessel ferry, there is inevitably the point that you will need to make your Easting again. Our friends with heavy vessels do this via their annual higher latitude pilgrimage (i.e. via New Zealand and Tonga here in the S. Paific) and quite often do get clobbered in the process. This, of course, reaffirms their belief that their vessel needs to be as strong as a tank..... an so on and so forth. We just simply point Rivendel (our Hunter Legend 43 with B&R rig), towards the East and start sailing. So, how do we sail our B&R rig downwind? If I don't feel too lazy I pole the 110 genoa and the staysail out on opposite tacks and sail wing-on-wing with the two jibs (see link). If that is not fast enough for you, get a small cruising spinnaker or drifter. Have fun, Flying Dutchman
B and R fine for cruising
Just have time for a quick note, as I am at an internet cafe in Tonga. We've sailed our Passage 42 about 35,000 miles, from N. America through the coconut milk run, then a couple seasons in the tropics, then windward back to the US. Now on our second time in the S. Pacific. The cruise back to the US to windward wasn't bad at all, when you consider how high on the wind you can point with a B and R. Seems like we rarely have a real DDW cruise, so we broad reach a lot (when we can). No problem with the B and R. Enjoy it. We agree with Henk: it's much more important to have a rig that points well. (Seems like it's always to windward between New Zealand and the tropics; we've done it six times). Take care, Paul.
Just have time for a quick note, as I am at an internet cafe in Tonga. We've sailed our Passage 42 about 35,000 miles, from N. America through the coconut milk run, then a couple seasons in the tropics, then windward back to the US. Now on our second time in the S. Pacific. The cruise back to the US to windward wasn't bad at all, when you consider how high on the wind you can point with a B and R. Seems like we rarely have a real DDW cruise, so we broad reach a lot (when we can). No problem with the B and R. Enjoy it. We agree with Henk: it's much more important to have a rig that points well. (Seems like it's always to windward between New Zealand and the tropics; we've done it six times). Take care, Paul.
hey paul
hey, paul hello from alaska, you have to get back here and party with us on thorr, man mark and mary have it rough.
hey, paul hello from alaska, you have to get back here and party with us on thorr, man mark and mary have it rough.
Thanks Henk, Flying Dutchman
Thanks for your input regarding downwind sailing with BandR rig. You state the true facts of the matter, that cruising even on the Coconut Milk run involves long legs on other points of sail. And your link showing wing n Wing sailing is very illustrative. You seem to imply that doing an around the world would require a boat more substantial than the 356. I have no illusions regarding that. Something in the 18,000 lb. category would be better. Based on your experience would you categorically rule out such a boat for such a voyage??? Charles Frick, Boca Raton Fl
Thanks for your input regarding downwind sailing with BandR rig. You state the true facts of the matter, that cruising even on the Coconut Milk run involves long legs on other points of sail. And your link showing wing n Wing sailing is very illustrative. You seem to imply that doing an around the world would require a boat more substantial than the 356. I have no illusions regarding that. Something in the 18,000 lb. category would be better. Based on your experience would you categorically rule out such a boat for such a voyage??? Charles Frick, Boca Raton Fl
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