B&R Knowledge

[TerryGufshoz]

Help! I recently acquired a 29.5 and I'm really struggling with the angles of sail. All of my experience has been with masthead rigs, and I can't seem to find the "sweet spot" on anything other than a broad reach. I understand not being able to run straight downwind because of the shrouds, but anytime I try to sail closer than 60 degrees to the wind, the helm gets overpowered. The only advice I've seen has been to reef in any wind greater than 15k and don't go dead downwind. The B&R seems so be more difficult to me than a masthead rig, but I'm sure that's my fault.
I certainly would appreciate any suggestions to shorten my learning curve.
Also, I'd love to crew in my area with someone who has a similar rig.
Terry

 

[Paul356]

Boat needs to be sailed flatter than many, as you surmise. If your angle of heel is greater than about 20 degrees, you need to depower a bit or bear off or both. I think it's a mistake to expect our Hunters to track 45 degrees off of true wind; 50 degrees is probably more like it, and a lot more efficient. As a first step, before reefing, try easing the sheet to introduce some twist in the main to spill a little power from the top. You can also slack off on the traveler or sheet so the boom is not dead center as you beat. I'm one who likes the big main and doesn't mind reefing early, since the big main is so nice for light air. Finally, make sure your forestay is tight. It will sag some, due to the nature of the rig, but it should be very taut when the rig is at rest.

 

[TerryGufshoz]

Thanks, Paul.
The boat also came with 135 percent jenny, which I haven't used yet. Most days I get 10-15k and I've been trying to learn the boat with the smaller jib.

 

[Alan]

The flatter you make your main the less power it will have. As wind strength builds you should increase outhaul, vang, cunningham and mainsheet. This will decrease draft and move it further forward. In puffy conditions the traveler can be used to control angle of attack. When the puff subsides the traveler is re-applied. Easing the mainsheet powers up the top section of the sail increasing your heel and weather helm. You may also want to re-check the amount of mast rake you carry. Increasing rake allows you to point higher. The drawback is a gain in weather helm but flatter sails will minimize this. A rake of between 1 and 2 % are acceptable numbers. You should also check that you have enough shroud tension to be sure the mast drop off is not excessive.

 

[Steve Dion]

Terry:

I would suggest that you put in your first reef if the wind is blowing over 10 kts. and try this out. If you cannot flatten your sail properly you may have some bagging in it and it can be repaired or you may need to consider a replacement.

 

[tcbro]

Conflicting statements here

Paul says: "try easing the sheet to introduce some twist in the main to spill a little power from the top."

Alan says: "Easing the mainsheet powers up the top section of the sail increasing your heel and weather helm."

I'm thinking I agree with Paul. Easing the mainsheet allows the boom to rise and lets the top of the sail twist off, reducing power, heel and weather helm.

Any discussion?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Tom, one works when on a reach, the other works when beating.

 

[Alan]

tcbro, twisting off the main is HOW you "power up" a sail. With your vang on full there is no way for "the boom to rise". We've had this discussion many times on the Sail Trim forum. If you want to de-power the sail beyond being fully flat you would need to drop the traveler and completely dump the mainsheet taking all power away and allowing the sail to flog. Just twisting off the main alone will lead to a sudden power up and huge heeling and weather helm. I know skippers do this a lot and it's the wrong approach to de-powering.
If you don't believe it, try it yourself the next time the wind pipes up and compare the results.

Terry, I would strongly suggest you buy Don Guillette's book 'Sail Trim' available from the Store on this site. It's the best 20 bucks you'll ever spend on sailing.

 

[Paul356]

Alan is right, flattening the sail will help and should be an early step. However, my experience is that the standard cruising sails on a hunter are not as responsive as sails built for racing or racers, so flattening does not have the effect on our boats that it might on some. For example, flattening probably has more effect on the 35.5, which had an eye toward racing, than on the 29 or my 356, which are aimed strictly at cruising. So, we look to additional shortcuts. A corallary is that flattening the foot of the sail will also induce some twist or falloff up top on many boats. Finally, a board flat sail is going to be less forgiving in gusts than a sail with some twist. For racing, we are trimming the main constantly to account for the narrower tolerance of a flatter sail. For cruising, we prefer to set it once and let the boat spill adapt a bit on its own.

 

[TerryGufshoz]

Alan, thanks for the info about the rake of the mast. Just looking at it, the rake seems extreme to me. I'll check the numbers when I get back to the boat.

 

[Alan]

Well Paul, that's not exactly right. True racing sailors are very concerned about the proper shape of their sails but that doesn't mean that cruising sails are any different. The difference may lie in the fact that sails have a limited useful life. Most racing sailors will discard sails that have lost their shape. On the other hand cruisers seem to hold onto theirs for ten or more years even though they have long since lost their designed shape. This will make proper sail trim a nightmare and could be difficult to 'de-power'.
In this case standard trimming procedure will need to be modified and reefing will need to be done much earlier.
However, if you're going to use the 'set it and forget it' school of trimming then you're not really into sailing as it was designed and all bets are off.

 

[Paul356]

I'm really into sailing as it was designed.