Awesome Tall Oaks - Windjammer Challenge on Saturday!

Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
11 boats started, 6 from Tall Oaks and 5 from Windjammers. One boat from Tall Oaks didn't finish due to a wheel steering malfunction, so 5 boats from each club finished. Tall Oaks took the cup by just 1 point and it was close for the entire race. Sue was giving me a little bit of a hard time for finishing 9th but I said … Hey, our 9th place finish won it for the club! If we were 10th, it would have gone the other way! Seriously, we had a great time and there were a number of close encounters & head-to-head duals during the race to make it exciting. I find that one critical mistake can make a pretty big difference!

About half-way thru the race we were closer to the middle of the fleet. We rounded the leeward mark right on the heels of a larger boat and there were more than a few boats behind us. As we were following the larger boat upwind on port tack, we could not escape the foul air. We could not point higher to get by them and we were closing on them as we footed. But as we got right into their foul air, we also couldn't get by them to leeward because we slowed down in the foul air. The boat ahead of us was overpowered and was having a lot trouble with weather helm, so they were not so fast.

In the meantime, at least two boats on port tack were behind us but pointing a little higher and were gaining to leeward of us. I was looking over my shoulder feeling stuck behind this boat and thinking that I had to get into clear air quickly. I wanted to tack to stbd side, but I was worried that the 2 boats behind were very close and I didn't want to cause the confrontation. But finally I decided we needed to tack. Just as I feared, our momentum had us moving forward slowly when the first boat was closing on us rapidly. I almost decided to just luff until they got by, but they steered toward our stern to go by very close. There was some yelling by somebody on the other boat and Sue started yelling because she was really afraid they were going to hit us. I try to tell her to just stay calm and don't yell, but she doesn't listen to me. The second boat that was close also ducked us without incident. In the end, the slower boat ahead of us and both of the boats that ducked us eventually rounded the windward mark ahead of us and stayed ahead of us for the rest of the race.

I talked to the skipper of the first boat that ducked us later and he just said it was all just part of the fun of it. He also said he thought it was a mistake on our part to tack because we eventually lost positions because of it. It seems to me that it is a little murky as to what constitutes a clean tack that doesn't interfere with another boat. We were on stbd and advancing pretty slowly coming out of the tack. The first boat had to change direction, but the skipper said they didn't have to do anything drastic and he seemed to be fine with it, especially because it worked out for him, I suppose!

The wind was strong, about 18 to 20 knots, we had our smaller jib and reefed main and we were struggling with being over-powered ourselves. The port tack waves really seemed to slam us, the stbd side waves seemed to hit us a little less. There didn't seem to be any favored side of the course and I can't say that there really were any shifts. That said, all boats seemed to head to the right side of the course to find the lay line rather than going up the middle making extra tacks necessary. I know that I hurt our position by tacking to the left on starboard. I probably should have been a little more patient but at the time I felt a little panicky about getting out of the wind shadow of the boat ahead of us!
 
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May 17, 2004
5,031
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
As a former Tall Oaks inhabitant, I congratulate you on the good job of not giving up that extra point. :)
It seems to me that it is a little murky as to what constitutes a clean tack that doesn't interfere with another boat.
Once you are on a starboard tack close hauled course you have rights and they must give way. It doesn’t matter if you’re even trimmed yet, just that you are pointed that way. The only other limitation is that they must have “room to keep clear”, which they certainly did if they were able to duck you. Actually, it’s a good thing you completed the tack and didn’t just stop near head-to-wind. If you had luffed before being on a close hauled course then you would still be tacking, and not have any rights. In that case If they had to turn at all they could protest you.

I think I would have tacked as well. You can’t really stay there eating the bad air for the whole leg. Even if you wanted to be on the right side of the course you could just take a short starboard tack, get a couple hundred feet of separation, and tack back. In winds that that strong the tacks shouldn’t be that expensive. The only exception might be the last leg of the race if I know the other boats around me owe me time, so all I need to do is stay around them and correct out ahead.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Congrats Scott being the contributor that helped the team. Love that Sue was ready to go to battle wanting to protect her boat.
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Congrats Scott being the contributor that helped the team. Love that Sue was ready to go to battle wanting to protect her boat.
Yeah, well, it's a little embarrassing, like, during the first day she participated she yelled "HEY, NO CUTTING" when we were on port tack and a starboard boat was crossing our bow! I can't tell her anything, either! :redface::redface:

@Ward H has been a big help suggesting some tactics to improve our tacking skills. But despite our efforts, I think the boat is not set up correctly to work well with a crew. For one thing, the winches are too far back. It is just too ineffective to sheet in the genoa from the cockpit in front of the wheel. We did better when Ward would move behind the helm with me in preparation for the tack, but we couldn't decide if it works better when he takes a position on the lee side so he is on the high side at the completion of the tack or vice versa. If he ends up on the high side, I have to hand the helm off to him while I use 2 hands to trim the genoa. Then there is the problem that he has to move from the high side to the low side before the tack begins. If he ends up on the low side, it is easier for me, but it is really difficult for Ward to climb out of the hole and get back to the high side after we're trimmed and heeled over. On a day like Saturday, those winches are actually too small and it takes A LOT of strength just to winch that line in. I'm pretty strong and I was having difficulty, even with our small sail. The starboard side winch was particularly troublesome because the lifeline interferes with my strongest motion on the winch handle. The boat was basically on the rail almost instantly as well. One of the reports from the other sailors was that the wind was actually more like 20 to 24 knots .... just another typical weekend day on Barnegat Bay! I was wearing my mask and snorkel for protection against the spray while we were motoring upwind at the end!

I can think of several modifications that I should make to improve the crew operations during a race. For one, I think I could install primary winches forward in the cockpit so we don't have to winch the genoa sheets behind the helm!

I hate to be a complainer but .... those handicap numbers don't seem to work for us. We finished 34 seconds behind a much bigger boat. I think it was 34 or 35 feet. Granted, it's an old boat (as mine is) and maybe it's not a performance boat, but I was sure that we would correct ahead of them. I can't tell you what it is, but I want to find out. Instead we GAVE them 41 seconds and corrected 75 seconds behind them. I was thinking that it should have been the other way. It seemed to me that they should be giving our boat 41 seconds and we would have corrected ahead of them! :cuss: OTOH, if I have to give up time, that just makes me more MOTIVATED!

One funny thing about the day ... because of the wind, we were a little frazzled heading out. As soon as we cleared the protected channel area, I decided we better change the 150 to the 110 genoa. This little episode wasn't easy in the wind and waves so we retreated to the channel to complete the task. Then we got out there again and raised the main with a reef. My reefing line didn't quite get the mainsail flat enough so I had to jury rig an outhaul to flatten the sail - hanging out over the rail to get it done with Sue yelling at me to not fall off the boat. Sue was getting a little discouraged by then, so I announced ... "the wind is too strong so let's just sail comfortably during the race and not worry about our placement". Well, you can imagine that went out the window immediately. We were in full-on competitive mode pretty much from the start, even though I didn't approach the start with my normal aggressiveness.

While we where motoring home it occurred to me so I had to say ... "You know I lied about the easy sail today". But I have to admit that I was pretty pleased about the race, even if a little disappointed for the mistakes. That is what competition is about for me. I always like the feeling that we CAN do better!
 
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Ward H

.
Nov 7, 2011
3,645
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
"the wind is too strong so let's just sail comfortably during the race and not worry about our placement".
Yep, that lasted about 30 seconds.:biggrin:
All three of us were not about to let sit back and take the easy way around our last race of the season.
Sue was funny and a good sport. At one point she asked me if it was "duck under" or "duck up". I can imagine what the other boat thought when they heard her yelling "Duck Up".

Considering this was our 5th race of our first season, I think we did pretty good. I know @Scott T-Bird and I had a blast. Sue? maybe not as much.

Really glad Scott had his AP installed and working well as we motored back to the marina.
Here he is keeping watch while Sue and I stayed dry in the cabin.
Scott T Bird.jpeg
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Re the tacking:
Get longer/better winch handles. If you are using 8s, OMG get 10s. That's like a 30% boost in power. If you have 10s, get ones with a knob on top so you can two hand it.
Can you cross-sheet? It looks like in the pics you can. If yes do that.
Make sure you sheets are long enough so the trimmer can release the sheet but keeping it under tension, bring it to the new side. Then release and trim from one spot.
As a driver, pause for 1-2 seconds while the boat is head to wind. It gives the trimmers time to get the sail back and trimming started. It can make all the difference.

Re the rating.
Never complain about your rating. Especially after 5 races. Save that for when you're good, you can make a fact-based case, and people will listen. Right now they'll snicker.

Dave called the tacking rule, so no comment there. But you cannot live in bad air. Impossible to pass on either side. You have to take a hitch, and do it RIGHT AWAY. It minimizes your loses, and keeps boats behind you from running up on you. Don't try and look at what happened there and create a judgment based on that. Too many variables, and you're not experienced enough yet to isolate them. Getting in clear air was the right thing to do. Sooner would have been better.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Re the rating.
Never complain about your rating. Especially after 5 races. Save that for when you're good, you can make a fact-based case, and people will listen. Right now they'll snicker.
Actually, I didn't intend to complain about my rating. But I'm questioning a few of the other boats ratings. Both clubs appear to be pretty informal on this issue. It seems that it is basically an honor system that is used. In fact, after everybody signed up and scribbled down their rating, the race committee announced that the PHRF was basically an honor system. Nobody was doing any checking. This annual challenge has been going on for a long time so I'm pretty sure it is common knowledge. There was some joking going on about it.
But, you are right. I have no intention of questioning anything about this issue any time soon. I don't know them well enough. I would like to get more information on the boats, however, just so I can do a little investigating on my own. Basically, our sign up sheets don't include any information about the boats and I'm not familiar with many of these boats just by looking at them.

Dave called the tacking rule, so no comment there. But you cannot live in bad air. Impossible to pass on either side. You have to take a hitch, and do it RIGHT AWAY. It minimizes your loses, and keeps boats behind you from running up on you. Don't try and look at what happened there and create a judgment based on that. Too many variables, and you're not experienced enough yet to isolate them. Getting in clear air was the right thing to do. Sooner would have been better.
Funny you mention that … later on I looked at the navionics track for the day on my phone and we went much further on port tack in bad air than I realized. I probably should have tacked over right when we were rounding the leeward mark.
 
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