I am going to replace my old Raymarine ST4000 wheel pilot with the newest version X-5 (SPX-5 p70). Just wondering if anyone has made the same upgrade and was able to use the old cables/wires? This would surely save some installation time. Thanks.
Autopilot; ST4000 to X-5
- Thread starter Pat T
- Start date
- Status
I know that you can use the old cables with the 4000 plus. In fact Raymarine will sell you the additional components to convert the 4000 plus to the X-5 for significantly less than the cost of the X-5. They do require that you send them the existing control head. I did this on my previous boat. I would suggest that you call Raymarine tech and ask them.
I was able to install mine relatively easy. Depends on what you mean by using the 4000 wiring. The X-5 uses a control box which the other didn't. Really the only cables I reused were the Seatalk pretty much everything is new. The X-5 is much nicer. I love mine. I was in a seminar yesterday and the Raymarine rep said they are no longer servicing the old 4000 models. Once they break they are gone.
Me Too....
What with the new separate computer box, it's really better to just use the whole "kit" in the carton and do it over. Since I was mounting the new control head where the old was and also re-using the former compass location, at least I did not have to "pioneer" a new wire route through the interior!
:dance:
Since my old (1995) AP still worked most of the time -- I gave to a friend of mine who had none. It's still working on his boat... and I will gladly refund his $ if it fails!!
BTW, the new one seems to work a bit better than the old model.
L
Last year I upgraded from my A4000S to a new X5.
What with the new separate computer box, it's really better to just use the whole "kit" in the carton and do it over. Since I was mounting the new control head where the old was and also re-using the former compass location, at least I did not have to "pioneer" a new wire route through the interior!
:dance:
Since my old (1995) AP still worked most of the time -- I gave to a friend of mine who had none. It's still working on his boat... and I will gladly refund his $ if it fails!!
BTW, the new one seems to work a bit better than the old model.
L
The X-5 uses different types of wires that are very simple to connect. The X-5 uses back bone and spurs for wires. As the name implies the wire that plugs into the box has a unique plug that connects to a back bone. using T junctions you can connect all other new ST 70's together. OR connect the box directly to the control head. The cable is only 3 feet long and you might need to order an extension. The rest of your instrument can be connected to the box using the old wires. Again you might need an extension.
Pedestal wiring...
to the motor drive on the wheel ring can be reused if it is long enough to reach the new control box location and not the old ST-4000's head. I was able to reuse mine when I converted to the S-1 (X'5's predecessor).
to the motor drive on the wheel ring can be reused if it is long enough to reach the new control box location and not the old ST-4000's head. I was able to reuse mine when I converted to the S-1 (X'5's predecessor).
The X-5 is rated at just over the weight of my boat (Catalina 36 Mark II). Some say if I upgrade from my present AP I should go to a heavier duty AP (under deck). Any thoughts, experience, etc.?
Yup, They're nice
If I had 5K $ (or thereabouts) to spend on the full installation, I'd have a below-decks AP anytime. Being on a budget though, we have stuck with the wheel version.
So, "it all depends..."
LB
ps: as far as calculating how much boat the wheel drive will handle, the guy I gave my old A4000S to now has it working (fine, so far) on an early S&S Catalina 38!
I have done a coastal delivery (couple of days, open sea) on an E-32 with a below-decks AP. Powerful and fast... liked it a lot. However that owner got it with the boat courtesy of the expenditures of the prior owner.
If I had 5K $ (or thereabouts) to spend on the full installation, I'd have a below-decks AP anytime. Being on a budget though, we have stuck with the wheel version.
So, "it all depends..."
LB
ps: as far as calculating how much boat the wheel drive will handle, the guy I gave my old A4000S to now has it working (fine, so far) on an early S&S Catalina 38!
The St4000 was marginal on my Beneteau 361 and was thinking of updating to X5. Eventually I ended up with the below deck raymarine type 1 linear type. It's a different world! Powerful, fast and much much more capable in handling many different conditions (even running seas).
Should be able to use the old wires except for the course computer as it will be in a different location. This of course providing that the old wires wire sized properly and are in good shape.
KEEP the rudder position sensor! The new units steer a LOT better with them, than without. You may even be able to re-use your flux gate, unless they have changed it...
I am the lucky owner of a S3G system (newest model) with pump, and wonder if I should put this in my Bene 323 instead of the now installed 4000+. I have looked under deck both from the upper side ( at the quadrant ) and from the under side. There is no obvious way to install the system. Is it a good idea, and has anyone a suggestion how to do it?
I am not very happy with the 4000+, and wonder if this is because the rudder indicator is not yet installed. A big benefit with under deck installation is to get rid of the motor at the wheel. As it is now we are not able to use the smart rotating tiller.
I am not very happy with the 4000+, and wonder if this is because the rudder indicator is not yet installed. A big benefit with under deck installation is to get rid of the motor at the wheel. As it is now we are not able to use the smart rotating tiller.
I have a number of questions.
Did you do the install on the Beneteau 361.
If so, how did it go, and do you have any pictures.
I would love to talk about. I have the same issues.
Thanks
Rick
Did you do the install on the Beneteau 361.
If so, how did it go, and do you have any pictures.
I would love to talk about. I have the same issues.
Thanks
Rick
I replaced my ST 4000 with an X-5 and replaced all of the cables as well. The ST4000 used a control head with a computer in it. The X-5 uses a separate control head and course computer. You need to run a cable from the control head, usually mounted at the helm, to the course computer usually mounted somewhere in the cabin. A cable from the course computer powers the wheel drive motor. The compass has a cable that runs to the course computer. The cable routes are different than the ST4000 so I just used the existing cables to help me pull the new cables through the pedestal.
Raymarine's tech support is not very useful. The X-5 comes with an installation book that refers to a 6000 control head but my kit came with a P70 control head which had it's own installation manual. The X-5 book showed a cable with a plug at the control head and pigtails at the course computer, the only long cable that I had had plugs at each end. When I finally got through to Raymarine the tech support guy said "cut the plug off the end". I said "really, that's the best you can do"?
When I finally got it wired the commissioning instructions differed in each book. The P70 book refers to screens that you can only access if you don't cut the plug off the end of the cable but wire it using the spine referred to in a previous post. It's hard to believe someone can supply a package of components with instructions that are so conflicting. The rational tech support types that I talked to said things like "we keep telling them to change the instructions but nothing happens".
If you lay out all the components and cables on the floor, read the instructions in all the books and make sure you can connect everything together before you start cutting cables or installing things it can be done. Good luck.
Raymarine's tech support is not very useful. The X-5 comes with an installation book that refers to a 6000 control head but my kit came with a P70 control head which had it's own installation manual. The X-5 book showed a cable with a plug at the control head and pigtails at the course computer, the only long cable that I had had plugs at each end. When I finally got through to Raymarine the tech support guy said "cut the plug off the end". I said "really, that's the best you can do"?
When I finally got it wired the commissioning instructions differed in each book. The P70 book refers to screens that you can only access if you don't cut the plug off the end of the cable but wire it using the spine referred to in a previous post. It's hard to believe someone can supply a package of components with instructions that are so conflicting. The rational tech support types that I talked to said things like "we keep telling them to change the instructions but nothing happens".
If you lay out all the components and cables on the floor, read the instructions in all the books and make sure you can connect everything together before you start cutting cables or installing things it can be done. Good luck.
Lou,
I notified RM of these issues back in July of 2012 when they swapped all the 6000 heads for P-70's and did not include the proper cables in the box. They supplied a 3' cable to go from the control head to the course computer.
Yeah like that's going to work.....This is nothing new with Raymarine so please email management and PLEASE detail your problems. The ONLY way to get RM to wake up is to let upper management know what is going on.
The whole change over from ST-60 style heads to P-70's has been a real nightmare and Raymarine is shooting them selves in the foot with DIY's who will likely never buy Ray product again after the BS they have been put through..
Unfortunately Raymarine is not alone in these issues and they all have them. Raymarine is no worse or better than any of the others... IMHO they all are pretty poor when it comes to this sort of crap. Hell Garmin suggest you use a rudder position transducer but then does not even offer one, nor give you any suggestions as to which one is compatible with their AP's. Tech support at Garmin on this issue is as clueless as a box of Cheerios......
Maine Sail,
So you think that upper management at RM doesn't know that they are sending out component packages with conflicting instructions and cables? I don't know which I find more appalling, that they don't know that they send out non-matching components or that they send them out and don't care.
I will take your suggestion and email RM and tell them of my experience with their autopilot package and let you know if I get a reasonable response. Based on my conversations with the tech support staff I assume that management knows but doesn't care but I could be wrong.
So you think that upper management at RM doesn't know that they are sending out component packages with conflicting instructions and cables? I don't know which I find more appalling, that they don't know that they send out non-matching components or that they send them out and don't care.
I will take your suggestion and email RM and tell them of my experience with their autopilot package and let you know if I get a reasonable response. Based on my conversations with the tech support staff I assume that management knows but doesn't care but I could be wrong.
I remember this post from last year. I'm thinking of upgrading my ST4000 to the X5.
Maine Sail- you posted on the original and responded recently. Is RM still shipping units with the wrong cable?
Are the deals much better at a boat show than online? I may be attending the NE Boat Show after reading Tim's post.
Maine Sail- you posted on the original and responded recently. Is RM still shipping units with the wrong cable?
Are the deals much better at a boat show than online? I may be attending the NE Boat Show after reading Tim's post.
ST4000 to X-5
FYI, I did eventually get my AP installed. The only cable I was able to reuse was the one for the fluxgate compass because I used the old compass. I did not mention in the original post that I had ST60 instruments. Hooking up this new AP with the older ST60 technology was a pain. I had to buy extra cables and a converter. The manuals were not very helpful, as Lou can attest, and I had to call RayMarine at least a couple of times. They were able to help me out. I also made use of their forum.
If you are installing this AP as a stand alone system installation would be more straightforward and manuals would make sense.
FYI, I did eventually get my AP installed. The only cable I was able to reuse was the one for the fluxgate compass because I used the old compass. I did not mention in the original post that I had ST60 instruments. Hooking up this new AP with the older ST60 technology was a pain. I had to buy extra cables and a converter. The manuals were not very helpful, as Lou can attest, and I had to call RayMarine at least a couple of times. They were able to help me out. I also made use of their forum.
If you are installing this AP as a stand alone system installation would be more straightforward and manuals would make sense.
Pat, I replaced my ST4000 with an X-5 several years ago and do not remember having to buy additional cables or a converter. I may have had the necessary cables lying around but what was the need for a converter? I also had a suite of ST60 instruments. I did have to acquire an NMEA Multiplexer as the Raymarine C80 chartplotter only has one NMEA input, I needed 3 (VHF DSC, X-5 Fast Heading and laptop to transfer routes/waypoints). I then sent the output of the multiplexer through an AIS to the NMEA input at the C80 and configured the port to 38.4 kb. Keep in mind that if you have a radar interfaced to your chartplotter and wish to benefit from MARPA (mini-automatic radar plotting aid, gives CPA) then you need to connect the X-5 computer to the chartplotter via NMEA, not SeaTalk. This is the only way it will function properly.
- Status