Attn H23.5/240/26/260 owners

[George H260]

Have you seen this video? Watch the how hard the sailors try to capsize this H23.5. Pay special attention to what happens when the rudder clears the water...

Go to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w00suzaDh_A

This is typical behavior for all the hunter water ballast boats - it refuses to heel beyond a certain point ---

The racing buoy hanging from the mast is in case the boat did capsize. There were also 6 other buoys in the cabin for flotation.

Some people will do anything to prove a point...

 

[Brian M H23]

Note: this onyl works if you DON'T blow the sails. If you were the release the mainsheet and the boom hit the water, things may turn out differently.

 

[BrianW]

I was feeling pretty confident after seeing the video until BrianM's comment! Releasing the mainsheet would be my automatic first response. I would like to hear any accounts of how blowing the sails, blowing the vang, and/or releasing the mainsheet would change things as compared with the You Tube scenario. Has anyone actually capsized a water-ballasted Hunter? I have gone 45 degrees with the end of the boom plowing water and she came back only after blowing the main and scrambling on deck to get the flogging main down. BrianW

 

[peptobysmol]

forgive me of my ignorance, I'm still new to sailing. Does "blowing the main" refer to letting out the boom/releasing or relaxing the mainsheet. This is one of the first things I do when dealing with a gust that causes excessive heel. Never been close to the point of being knocked down, however.

 

[Rick Webb]

I have Had the Windows in the Water

Not sure if I was over that far but I have tried to get the rail in the water and never could. Maybe if I sent someone forward to hang on the mast like in the video it might work. I am very confident that barring being hit braodside by a swell while heeling way far over there is no way you could get the thing to capsize.

 

[George H260]

So releasing the main destabalizes the boat ???? This is antirely new concept to me.

I have sailed on a wide range of boats over the years but this is the first time I've encountered the term "blowing the main". Obviously I still have a lot to learn.

I've never experienced the phenomenon Bryan refers to. My own experience on the H260 and every boat I've ever sailed is that the sooner you release the mainsheet the sooner the boat stops heeling. Can somebody explain this "blowing the main" concept in more detail ?

 

[BrianW]

To explain my use of the term in question requires telling a short story. In my first year of sailing my H26, I was sailing with a full main in a nice 10 knot breeze when I saw a sailboat a few hundred yards in front of me suddenly heel over sharply. About 30 seconds later, I was hit by a cross wind that also caused me to heel violently. I immediately eased the mainsheet and it still remained heeled at 45 degrees with the wind continuing and building. I let the mainsheet all the way out with no effect. While still sharply heeled and the rudder completely out of the water, the boom was skimming the surface of the water. I let the jibsheet out, still to no effect. After still no effect from easing the mainsheet all the way and letting the jib sheet fly, in a panic, I released the main halyard in an attempt to further de-power the sails. Later, I related this story to an experienced sailor at my marina and he referred to my suddenly releasing the main halyard as "blowing the main". He further told me that "blowing the sails" meant releasing both the main and the jib halyards during an uncontrolled broach. I have not heard these terms since until they were used in this thread. Before writing this response, I did a quick Goggle search on "blow the main" and "blow the sails" and saw a couple of references to the term. One of the references used these terms meaning to suddenly release the sheets (not the halyard as in my reference). So, bottom line, I used a term in this forum that caused some confusion, may not have been applicable, and sidetracked the thread's info exchange. For this I apologize. BrianW

 

[George H260]

I hope "Brian M H23" comes back to explain his use of the term because he has confused some people.

I still can't understand how releasing the main when heeled over is NOT the proper action to right the boat. This runs counter to everything I've ever been taught or experienced.

I'm always willing to learn new stuff but I've NEVER had the boat not right itself immediately after releasing the mainsheet even if the boom were to drag in the water.

Think about it. Unless there are other forces at work (very high winds on the windward side, lots of rail meat on the leeward side, big waves etc) at this excessive angle, wind has spilled out of the sails and the rudder is no longer effective. There is nothing to prevent the boat from righting itself.

 

[Bilgewater]

I have had two extreme encounters with my h26. One was a knock-down from a gust, with full main and jib. I know now that I should have had the main reefed for the conditions we were in. We went over almost 90 degrees, but immediately rounded up into the wind and the boat righted herself. Not even a drop in the cockpit due to the high freeboard, but a good lesson to keep the main sheet in hand in gusty conditions.

The second adventure happened while on a broad reach while racing single-handed. The boat was flying along, ready to pass windward of two other boats, when a gust hit and I rounded up, totally out of control. The boom was as far out as I could have it without rubbing the shrouds, and I even released what main sheet I had left, but to no avail. Around we went. I did manage to make it a quick 360 and continue on, but never did catch the other boats. Again, probably should have had a reef in the main. You live and learn. I'm glad I experienced both events, as it gives me more confidence in the boat. She's teaching me alot, and not getting damaged in the process.

 

[JoeWhite]

Yes the term is " blowing the main" meaning letting the boom out all the way by releasing the main sheet and therefore spilling the wind. I would never release the main halyard. Also letting the boom come into contact with the water is dangerous as it may break the boom.

 

[George H260]

No sense in beating a dead horse here. We're still talking about this class "C" boat's ability to right it self under normal conditions (Add a spinnaker, 30mph winds, 5 ft waves, and all bets are off -- but that would most likely be true for the vast majority of small boats in this class).

Since "Brian M H23" has not come back to explain his comment I'm going to disregard it as it contradicts everything I and the others on this forum have experienced.

"Prudent seamanship will minimize the risk..."

 

[Bilgewater]

"Blowing the Main" seems

impossible to me. It has been my experience (with the B & R rig) that releasing the main halyard with the wind anywhere but dead ahead will not lower the sail. It starts to go and then gets wrapped up in the spreaders and shrouds. It is important to be alert and read the water, with main sheet in hand, when out in gusty conditions. Easing the main and heading up a bit will take care of most gusts if acted upon in a timely manner. But its good to know that if you totally screw up, the boat will take charge, round up into to wind, and right itself while you remove your head from a lower orriface. Been there, done that, learned the lesson.

 

[Brian M H23]

All I mean is that, if you are severely overpowered, the mainsail being sheeted in is the only thing that provides weather helm. If you are truly overpowered and have the jib strapped in tight, main not sheeted in, you will have lee helm, not weather helm. And that makes the boat point downwind, when the rudder comes out of the water. Also, as Joe pointed, if you release the mainsheet when well heeled over, you certainly risk getting the boom and sail in the water as well, which will also cause trouble (and drag on the lee side of the boat, pointing the boat away from the wind)

By all means, ease the sails as you feel overpowered. but during a knockdown, you surely don't want the boom in the water: you want the mainsail in and the headsail free.

 

[cephius (Dave)]

In earlier days of canvas sails having a sail blow out was common in high winds. It meant the canvas separated from the attaching hardware, destroying itself.

My experience with the H260 is that a slight easing of the main sheet is usually all that is required to reduce the power in the main and bring the rudder back into action. When a gust slaps you way over, its harder to take a controlled action and not just let the main sheet go. The controlled easing of the main will result in a less radical recovery and slightly less panic in the first mate.

 

[George H260]

Apples and Oranges...

One thing I've observed that that sailors with boats where the power is in the genoa look at the world differently than sailors with boats with the power in the main.

Generalizations about how boats handle have to take this in consideration.

 

[BrianW]

George's quote that follows his posts says it all. I learned a lot from my sudden cross wind gust. Next time..... BrianW

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment

 

[Sanman]

Well, Are we talking Knock downs or Broaches? I had a Catalina 22 broach off the wind and it was a bit of a ride. I did the exact thing mentioned and whammo we went around on the rail.

I never felt close to a broach on my 23.5 but I have been overpowered on the beam. When I slack the mainsheet, of course the boat's just gonna head up. The action of the sea may give you a fierce ride as well... throw on a a reef or even just going it Main alone, and I find most Hunters to be very docile and a nice sailing boat...

Cant wait to get out and sail the 26!