Asymmetrical experiences...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jan 25, 2007
346
Cal Cal 33-2 cape cod
I'm adding an asymmetrical and bowsprit to my Cal 33. I race cruising class (no-spinnaker) against similar rated boats, the racing class is composed of J-105's, Evelyn 32's, ect.,(lighter displacement boats). With only one or two crew, I thought about entering a race or two in the spinnaker racing class, the assymetric being easier for less crew to deploy. 1) Is this advisable? 2) Your experience with asymm's? 3) Fun sail for cruising? 4) Expectations? Advice? Thanks.
 

Attachments

Jun 8, 2004
2,977
Catalina 320 Dana Point
Around here you can use the AP if double handed racing, and assy is managable. In perfect conditions I've flown it solo while cruising but not racing.
 
Jun 8, 2004
2,977
Catalina 320 Dana Point
Can make the difference between sailing and motoring for long downwind passages in light airs while cruising.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
What kind of courses does your racing fleet sail? If they are windward/leeward, this will not work out so well, as an asym on your boat will not go deep very well. If they are triangles or point to point, you should do fine.

In any case it will be a fun sail to cruise around with, it works over a wide range of wind angle and speeds.

I'd suggest you look hard at how you will attach your tack line; as your bow pulpit extends forward. Look into a tacker to hold it on the forestay. Use an adjustable tack line to get best performance.
 
Jan 25, 2007
346
Cal Cal 33-2 cape cod
Downwind...

What kind of courses does your racing fleet sail? If they are windward/leeward, this will not work out so well, as an asym on your boat will not go deep very well. If they are triangles or point to point, you should do fine.

That was my concern...windward/leeward courses set about 1/3 of the races. I questioned the mathematics of sailing further distance on a short course, if the extra speed would be worth it? Polar diagrams/instruments/observations..nonwithstanding.., usually I'm sailing by seat of my pants. I am very excited about having a new sail, it's an indescribable feeling.
 

Attachments

Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
What kind of courses does your racing fleet sail? If they are windward/leeward, this will not work out so well, as an asym on your boat will not go deep very well. If they are triangles or point to point, you should do fine.

That was my concern...windward/leeward courses set about 1/3 of the races. I questioned the mathematics of sailing further distance on a short course, if the extra speed would be worth it? Polar diagrams/instruments/observations..nonwithstanding.., usually I'm sailing by seat of my pants. I am very excited about having a new sail, it's an indescribable feeling.
Well, you should do great in 2/3rds of the races, so that's a good start! ;^)

You're right, most older displacement boats that were designed for a symmetrical spinnaker do not to well in W/L racing with asys. The polars say go deep; that's the boats best downwind VMG angle. Heating up to let the asym fill will result in better speed, but as you note not make up for the distance. That's why the polars say go deep! You might do better in light airs, but as the breeze comes on it will get worse.
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,258
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
You'll have to develop a new set of polars for your boat's set up..... use the vmg function on your gps to help .... if allowed you could use the gps/vmg in races, saving a lot of work... but I'm uncertain how casual you're racing rules are...and you'd need to have the marks in your database.

Since you're installing a bowsprit also, I would forego attaching the tack to the headstay...get it as far out front as possible, using an adjustable tack line to trim the luff tension.

Regarding deployment..... if you find the spinnaker sock/sleeve somewhat cumbersome during a race, you might change over to the turtle bag method.... you can even have a "take down" line installed on the sail that would make your foredeck crew's job way more simple. In any event... you'll need some one up front, no matter what method you employ, and someone on the halyard. My solution, depending on how experienced the foredeck crew was, or whether I was single handing, was to make sure the spinnaker halyard could be handled at both the mast and the cockpit.... that allows the crew up front to control the sock hoist or drop by himself if need be. That goes the same for the tackline.... where the foredeck crew can release it from a position near the mast making the drop completely under his control. I installed an extra clam cleat on the cabin roof near the tackline exactly for this purpose. If you sail with three or more people this is not as critical, because you'll have a halyard/tackline/sheet person in the cockpit and someone up front to manage the sail up and down.

The main point is that you must really think the process out... know how adept your crew is on the foredeck, especially in bumpy water, and practice the sets and takedowns before you go racing.

Oh, one more thing... try googling "spinnaker deployment systems" there are some creative solutions to getting the asymmetrical set and doused without leaving the cockpit.... very similar in concept to the method used on beach cats.... in which the halyard and takedown control are one continuous line run through a launch tube or sock mounted on the foredeck. Pretty cool.
 
Jun 2, 2007
404
Beneteau First 375 Slidell, LA
I did this exact mod on my old Pearson 32, using a sprit kit from Selden. Jackdaw is right - an older, heavier boat will not do very well on windward/leeward courses because you can't pick up enough extra speed to make up for the extra distance you are sailing to keep the assy full. Courses that include a shy spinnaker reach are really a blast, though.
You might be surprised how tricky it is to jibe - for structural reasons the sprit is not as long as one might prefer, and there is a lot of sail to get through the slot between the headstay and the luff of the sail. It seems the best way to get the sail around is to have someone on the foredeck grab the new sheet as near the clew as possible and run aft as fast as possible, pulling the sail with him. Of course, I'm talking about an inside jibe - we never accomplished an outside jibe without running over the lazy sheet, but YMMV.
Be sure the sprit mount is REALLY secure, because the shock load of the chute collapsing and then refilling after a roundup in a fresh breeze is pretty scary. But having said all that, it is really great to be able to fly the chute with only a couple of people on board, and feel the boat really light up off the wind.
 
Apr 11, 2012
324
Cataina 400 MK II Santa Cruz
I'm hoping to install one on my boat, and would like to put it on a furler. That way I can single hand and not go forward to deploy or retrieve.
 
Nov 24, 2012
586
I'm adding an asymmetrical and bowsprit to my Cal 33. I race cruising class (no-spinnaker) against similar rated boats, the racing class is composed of J-105's, Evelyn 32's, ect.,(lighter displacement boats). With only one or two crew, I thought about entering a race or two in the spinnaker racing class, the assymetric being easier for less crew to deploy. 1) Is this advisable? 2) Your experience with asymm's? 3) Fun sail for cruising? 4) Expectations? Advice? Thanks.
Asymmetricals are more reaching/broad reaching sails so if you're planning on using for downwind it'll be disappointing.
 
Jan 25, 2007
346
Cal Cal 33-2 cape cod
Selden Sprit

North Sails recommended the bowsprit...the sailmaker also believes deploying and collapsing chute can be accomplished without sock or furler with one crewmember upfront. I am keeping the symmetrical aboard for occasional deployment, I think I might miss the ritual foredeck dance and colorful language the regular symmetrical brings to the boat.
 

Attachments

Apr 8, 2010
2,191
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 28400 Portland OR
Getting the sail out there far enough

One other thing to keep in mind when going DDW or anywhere close to it is that a large genoa IS a good alternative IF you can project enough area.

if you are relying on the boat's stock spinnaker pole, it's waaaay short for that purpose. You otter try an extendable whisker pole that will get that clew out there and put all the sail area where it does some good.

You also need the extra projection to let the sail move forward for a broad reach and still drive the boat well.
Better yet, in very light air where a spinnaker collapses often and cannot keep it's shape, a poled out 150% will still drive the boat, albeit slowly...

(I used to race "working sails" class often in my One Design days, and learned this stuff very well.)

Loren
 
Status
Not open for further replies.