Are you scared of wood?

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May 5, 2006
1,140
Knutson K-35 Yawl Bellingham
Many people follow my threads on the restoration of Oh Joy it seems. Most just read them and go on, either because they don't know enough to comment or don't see anything to comment on. Some comment about how HUGE the project is and that they are amazed by the undertaking.

Why is that? Now that I've dug into the old girl I'm finding that repairing and restoring this fine old wooden yacht is really quite simple. Folks who own fiberglass boats in particular are usually intimidated by the thought. They don't think anything of stripping the skin off the deck of a glass boat to repair a section of rotten core or cutting out a section of busted glass and repairing it so why would they find a wood boat so intimidating?

I think it's a matter of perspective. As I've gotten into the bones of this old boat, I've discovered that EVERYTHING is repairable or replaceable. Nothing on a wood boat cannot be repaired or replaced. A wooden yacht is just a collection of a thousand little jobs done right, to borrow a phrase. Each component can be taken apart and fixed. Granted, some parts are buried and you have to peel the connecting parts away like the layers of an onion but given enough time, it can be done.

Oh Joy is even more complicated because of the C-Flex sheathing. When doing a rib replacement, I can't just pop the bungs, remove the fasteners and replace the rib like on a true wood boat. I have to carefully cut and peel away a strip of the C-Flex , pop the bungs, remove the fasteners, replace the rib, refasten and then reglass. Everything else is fairly simple. Just don't forget how and where something went. Typically, you can't do that because there are several installations of whatever it is you pulled off right next to it.

Could I do the same with a plastic boat? Maybe... I'm sure I could figure it out. Would I enjoy it as much? Probably not. I hate fiberglass work.

I like working with wood. It's forgiving and it does not care how many times you repair or scarph in a new section or piece. Can the same be said of a section of glass, kevlar or carbon? I don't have to worry about delamination with the exception of the C-Flex and that has proven to be blister and delamination free for 16 years now so I guess I'm safe there.

What about maintenance? When Oh Joy is complete, the only maintenance will be the normal wear and tear a boat has plus the brightwork. Rot? Wood rots. If it's exposed to nature, yes. if it's sealed and cared for properly then no. Part of this restoration is to insure the areas of rot I ran across (mostly caused by really poor repairs) don't come back. Black Locust doesn't rot. You can stick it in the ground for over 100 years and it'll look new when ya pull it. Bugs don't like it and it has all of the qualities you want from a piece of wood for building boats. That's why I'm replacing any marginal wood structural members with it. Also, modern sealants such as Sanitred, which adhere at the molecular level, which are waterproof and UV proof will keep the enemy (fresh water) from the wood.

So, back to the maintenance issue. Varnish, plenty of it too. If properly applied, varnish, when refreshed with a couple of annual coats, will last up to 10 years. Stripping the brightwork of varnish or "wooding" CAN SOUND INTIMIDATING BUT IT'S REALLY NOT THAT HARD. It is time consuming but it only has to happen once a decade if you do it right and perform some simple maintenance. Planking? Planking is an issue with a traditional wood boat but not so with my girl. the planks don't see any water nor are they free to move around and work loose because of the C-Flex. Planks really aren't that hard to replace on a wooden boat either so that wouldn't scare me, not anymore.

So is there really maintenance in a wooden boat than a glass one? Not really. It's a matter of perception. Is there a difference in the lifespan between the two? That depends on the luck of the boat. If a wood boat has owners that care then no, it will last longer than a plastic boat because it won't experience delamination, crazing or general breakdown like glass will. Fiberglass does not last forever in a seaworthy form. It can only take a finite amount of flexing and stress before it starts breaking down. Can you fix it? Yes but how do you do that? Don't ask me. Will a glass boat take neglect better than a wooden one? You betcha. Wood boats that are ignored for long periods of time tend to fare far worse than their plastic counterparts.

So it's a trade off. A decently maintained wood boat will last forever, provided a piece here and there is repaired or replaced as needed. I don't know if the same can be said about a plastic boat because they really haven't been around long enough to say. There is a difference in the way the two materials sail though. Wooden yachts are quieter and just feel more solid than glass. I've sailed on both and the difference is undeniable.

What stops folks from owning a wooden boat? Pre-conceptions usually. They hear about how much maintenance is involved from folks who either bought a boat in poor condition or who've never even OWNED a wooden boat. Wooden boats are out there in all shapes, sizes and prices. To me, it's the cheapest way to get into a good boat. If you're intimidated by the prospect of fixing or maintaining one because you don't think you have the skills to do so, read the internet. Go to the WBF. I didn't know much of anything about wooden yacht s when I bought Oh Joy and started this project. I had some mechanical ability and a bit of wood working experience but nothing spectacular. I learned on the job, one little piece at a time. That's all a wooden boat is. A bunch of little pieces tied together. Nothing to be intimidated by at all.

So if you are wanting a sailing or motor yacht and like me, can't afford the latest and greatest, think about wood. Wood boats ask for your time and love and what better way to spend some spare time than on your boat...
 

BobM

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Jun 10, 2004
3,269
S2 9.2A Winthrop, MA
Nice treatise. I think that the issue with many old boats becomes one of accumulated neglect and most wooden boats are so old that the amount of neglect is now very significant. Even with fiberglass boats, much maintenance gets deferred. I bought the most expensive 9.2A on the marked on the time and it still suffered from rot in the bulkheads. Beyond that the electronics are out of date, the cushions are original...etc... That is typical for an 80's vintage boat, but a lot for most people to deal with from what have seen boat shopping over the years. Wood just adds a layer to the onion that most people can't deal with. I'd love to try a small wood boat, just for fun, at some point.
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,055
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Nice note.. many years ago, I maintained the 15 foot molded mahogany plywood “Yellow Jacket” runabout that my dad owned.. Many fewer parts but many of the same work requirements.. (no ribs) I learned how to do most from my grandfather.. We had fun varnishing together! She was a really pretty boat but required MANY more maintenance hours than fiber glass.. even though it did live indoors most of the time.. I applaud your vision and passion for the wood !! Beautiful stuff !!
 
May 5, 2006
1,140
Knutson K-35 Yawl Bellingham
Nice treatise. I think that the issue with many old boats becomes one of accumulated neglect and most wooden boats are so old that the amount of neglect is now very significant. Even with fiberglass boats, much maintenance gets deferred. I bought the most expensive 9.2A on the marked on the time and it still suffered from rot in the bulkheads. Beyond that the electronics are out of date, the cushions are original...etc... That is typical for an 80's vintage boat, but a lot for most people to deal with from what have seen boat shopping over the years. Wood just adds a layer to the onion that most people can't deal with. I'd love to try a small wood boat, just for fun, at some point.
That is very true. Wood boats deteriorate much faster than fiberglass when neglected. That rightly scared folks away. However, if you're handy, this isn't a hard thing to overcome. Basic woodworking skills and plenty of research on the web will get you there. The materials aren't THAT expensive and the work can be done one piece at a time. Time is the key. Time is the biggest cost. Wood works for those with more time than money. Folks with little time and money should stay away. Folks with plenty of money can do whatever they like.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Charlie you have what I have advocated for many years. A very strong wooden boat with a fiberglass sheathed hull. Alan Vaitsis built many wood left in place fiberglass boats. He was "old school" and way over built, but his boats endure. I have a fiberglass boat with a wood interior and all of my exterior wood is painted. We love it. Most people will complain that in the cold weather their fiberglass boat suffers from condensation. But wood with its insulating qualities stays dry as long as you have decent ventilation.
Larry Pardey says that after sailing 80,000 miles and 24 years Taliesin is desert dry inside.
 
May 5, 2006
1,140
Knutson K-35 Yawl Bellingham
Ross, many folks, especially over at the WBF, look down on glass sheathing. Most methods of sheathing are bad news. This C-Flex stuff is amazing though. It really does complicate repairs on things like rotten ribs or planks though. They can be done, just not as easy as a straight wood boat. However, if you have C-Flex, make sure you don't have leaks from above and use a dripless shaft seal, you have dust bunny's in the bilges. You also have the advantage of wood that doesn't move as much, fasteners that last and last and the fact that if you hit a log, you're likely to bounce off without major damage other than maybe some cracked ribs. Hitting a log with a traditional wood boat is a good way to sink it...

Oh Joy went through Hugo in Puerto Rico when it was a Cat 5. She was one of 6 boats out of 82 in the anchorage to survive, despite having other boats thrown into and onto her. Without the C-Flex, she would've become a pile of splinters on the bottom.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Alan Vaitsis wrote a book on covering wood boats with fiberglass. His method was before 3M 5200 so he and his crew would strip the hull and deck of all hardware and lay chopped strand mat and woven roving over the entire surface and then staple that to the hull with a roofing stapler. They would then lay four more plies over the first two and fair and finish everything and reattach all of the hardware and stanchions etc. He was well aware of the pitfalls of just covering the hull and not the deck.
 

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
Yes I am! I have plenty of experience refinishing non structural wood but none regarding wood constructed boats. And what you are doing is huge. I very much enjoy seeing your progress. If you ever get to the east coast you have to check out the Herreshoff museum in Bristol, RI.

I have built many things from wood that probably float but none you could sail!
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Not at all afraid of wood. I built my first boat when I was fourteen. Built three soap boxes for the derby before that. For many of us that is not the issue. I would love to have the facilities and the time to restore any boat whether wood or fiberglass. Even if I had time left over after sailing I could never afford the facilities required to do a real restoration. I envy you and Maine Sail that you can go and work on boat related stuff. I study everything the two of you post and those posts are my boat fix.
 
Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
I like having things I can reasonably neglect. I do read your posts though. I am trying to elimnate all the wood on the exterior of my boat, so I can neglect it more. I don't even like the stainless on my boat. I don't think this vintage of Catalina has the best. I am going to powder coat what doesn't have much chance of being scratched.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Not at all afraid of wood. I built my first boat when I was fourteen. Built three soap boxes for the derby before that. For many of us that is not the issue. I would love to have the facilities and the time to restore any boat whether wood or fiberglass. Even if I had time left over after sailing I could never afford the facilities required to do a real restoration. I envy you and Maine Sail that you can go and work on boat related stuff. I study everything the two of you post and those posts are my boat fix.
When I made the white oak backing and mounting blocks for my stanchions I had to compensate for the slope of the deck in order to have the stanchions stand vertical. Someone asked me how exactly i did it and I said that I had some 4x5 white oak in my lumber rack so I dressed some of it to size with my thickness planner, cut it to size on my table saw, rounded all the edges with my router, Placed the stanchion base on the block and drilled the holes on the drill press to be sure they were straight, Cut each block at the correct angle on my bandsaw for its place on the deck, countersunk the holes to accomodate the caulk and soaked them in linseed oil. Then I dawned on me I had used about 1500 dollars worth of machinery to make some simple blocks.
 

BobT

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Sep 29, 2008
239
Gulfstar 37 North East River, Chesapeake Bay
Ross & Charlie have all the elements of the equation balancing: Time, Effort, & Cost.
The machines to reduce Effort & Time Cost Money.
The Effort and Time put into a wood boat save cost compared to a new glass boat.
Plastic won't get eaten by fungus or worms, saving the time/cost of keeping a wooden boat dry. We must pick and choose the criteria that come close to "balance" for each of us. For many, that means choosing the lesser of the perceived evils in maintenance tasks, or going with our more comfortable skill levels.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
BobT, If you choose the wood species fungus and worms don't eat it either. I have seen locust fench posts pulled after 60 plus years service that you could brush the dirt off and they are still completely sound. There are many other species that come close.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Love wood..

I love woodies and grew up sailing on a beautiful 50 foot Bud Macintosh designed wooden schooner. I vividly remember those days and how beautifully she sailed. I also remember pulling into an anchorage and busting out the tools, paint and varnish. The work was endless even while out cruising.

Someday perhaps I will have a cold molded woodie or a small H 12 1/2 but I simply don't have the time to maintain one the way they deserve. Hell I moved so far away from wood I don't even have any exterior teak to maintain..;) In many ways wood is easier to work on and in others considerably more work. My neighbor completely sands & re-paints his topsides each year and he starts in the fall as soon as the boat comes out! Imagine that folks here complain about a little buffing...:D:D If I remember I will snap a photo tomorrow of his prep work that has already begun for his annual spring paint job..:eek:

Love wood, nothing, and I mean nothing, sails like it but don't have the time, time, time, time, time, time...............needed..;)

P.S. Charlie.

I took a special photo just for you today, of one of the many abandoned classics scattered about Maine. This one could be your next project, she is a stunner. I'll try and upload the photo sometime tonight for you..:doh:
 
May 5, 2006
1,140
Knutson K-35 Yawl Bellingham
Sweet! I just got back from Oh Joy. I finally got the chainplate partner and clamp section out. Now I can make a sawn and laminated piece to replace it with.
 
May 5, 2006
1,140
Knutson K-35 Yawl Bellingham
Yes I am! I have plenty of experience refinishing non structural wood but none regarding wood constructed boats. And what you are doing is huge. I very much enjoy seeing your progress. If you ever get to the east coast you have to check out the Herreshoff museum in Bristol, RI.

I have built many things from wood that probably float but none you could sail!
Tim, your skills are likely way ahead of mine with regards to woodworking. It's surprising just how simple boat framing is. It looks complicated because there are so many pieces but each piece in of itself isn't very complicated.
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
as far as wooden boats go , there is nothing like them ....but in this fast pace world we live in the buying public has nor the patience or the money to buy them...they have become a major luxgery in terms of todays economic world ....i was working on wooden boats back 1960 while still in jr high school some models were, yellow jacket,chris craft ,higgins,owens,and a lot of home made ones as well ....i would love to redo one this day and time but as some one stated... there is not enough time....
and at 63 years young i am sure there is not enough for me so i will be happy with redoing a 30' plastic one .......but yes i do get excited when i see the oldies ...and yes they are much like your first love...one never forgets them .....and always remember this ...the woodies are a hell of a lot warmer that the plastic ones will ever be...thats because they were once alive in the forest ......and no other material we use this day and time can clame that........just some thoughts of my own .........

regards
woody
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
To do them right...

To maintain them right is a simple mathematical equation:

Time + Time + Time + Time + $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ = Beauty;)

No hiding a bad scarf on this beauty..:D

 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
that is a good age to start charlie.... to quote the old timers of this world...IF ONLY I WAS TEN YEARS YOUNGER ....lol
 
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