Recently I butted heads with some folks at a local boatyard and came away with the feeling that there is, perhaps, too much tolerance in the boating community for boatyards taking advantage of their customers. It is sort of a "Just how it is" thing that I believe has gone too far. I received an informal quote over the phone for $1000 for some work. The work that was done was exactly what I was told needed to be done and I was billed $3500.00. The only deviation was that a part was replaced rather than reconditioned at a cost of $800.00 If the final tally had been $1800.00 I would have understood. Now, here's the fun part: I picked up the boat and the problem was not fixed. They hadn't even tested the repair. I took it back and they said they would fix it. I came back for it again and it was improved but still not fixed. By not fixed I mean the boat was not useable. I then took it back again and called the credit card company and told them to withhold payment. I took the boat back a third time and then a fourth. By now they are aware of the credit card hold and the boat is up on the hard and will not come down until I pay cash. I pay cash and get the boat back. It is improved but still not fixed. I finally figured it out myself and made the repair. During this process my conversations with the yard manager and owner were quite contentious and even insulting at times. I have spoken to other sailors in the local community and they have similar stories at this and other boatyards. So, are we too tolerant of this BS?
Are we too tolerant of boatyard culture?
- Thread starter markwbird
- Start date
Boatyards are the absolute worst part of boating. Continuous price increases for the same service with no explanation. Oh, I'm sorry, I did get an explanation for the last mooring fee increase of 18%. It was "supply & demand", an euphemism for bend over we are going to do this to you whether you like it or not". Let us know when it hurts.
On a more happy note, the best yard experience I ever had was at Baja Naval in Ensenada. Clean yard, great attitude, stuck to the original quote. Better experience than any American yard I've used. Plus, I had a fun sail down and back!
Why are we stopping at boatyards? I see as much if not more....
Bad doctors
Bad lawyers
Bad plumbers
Bad electricians
Bad car dealers
Bad car repair shops
Bad appliance repairmen
Bad contractors
Bad house painters
Bad tile guys
Bad roofers
Bad landscapers
Bad accountants
Bad teachers
Always ask around and confirm a reputation from PAST CUSTOMERS!
My most recent example of "bad" was I realized my inspection sticker had expired. Here in Maine they not only check dash lights but also plug in to check the OBD codes. The dealer was too busy (inspection free with an oil change) so I swung into a mom and pop garage. I mean how hard is an inspection sticker... Within three minutes the owner comes out telling me it won't pass because I need an O2 sensor.
Him: "I can't pass your car, it needs an oxygen sensor."
Me: "Oh really, is that bad?" (at first I played dumb)
Him: "Yes, very bad it can ruin your engine?"
Me: "What code did it set?"
Him: "An OBD code for the oxygen sensor."
Me: "No I mean which sensor, there are four O2 sensors on this vehicle?"
Him: "Stammer, stammer, ummm let me check with my guy who checked the OBD.." (now he's getting nervous)
Him: "It's the rear sensor in the manifold." (of course the most expensive one to replace)
Me: "That's interesting because I have a test from 2 hours ago right here on my smart phone showing no codes? Here's the report showing the time and date. Can you have your guy pull the code again so I can see it and so I can take it up with the maker of my OBD scan tool?"
Him: "Umm, ahh, err sure I guess but you're not allowed in the garage and those DIY code readers are junk & not accurate at all."
Me: That's ok because I can see him pull the test from here and I can watch you take a photo of the code with your smart phone, then you can walk over here and show me."
Him: "Starts to get more argumentative then gives up because there are other customers in the waiting room."
Tech: "Plugs in his scan tool, same brand "junk" OBD tool I use BTW, and comes up with no code."
Me: "Excuse my DIY ignorance here but you weren't trying to pull a fast one on me were you?"
Him: "Oh no, not at all sir, my guy is just a little bit over-tired today." (now I am a "sir"..)
Wound up not getting charged for the inspection (in front of other customers to save face) but if I had not checked for codes, as I always do before a State inspection, I would have been out about $650.00 per his estimate... There are crooks everywhere! I made the mistake of not doing my homework and only saved my bacon because I had checked for codes earlier..
Bad doctors
Bad lawyers
Bad plumbers
Bad electricians
Bad car dealers
Bad car repair shops
Bad appliance repairmen
Bad contractors
Bad house painters
Bad tile guys
Bad roofers
Bad landscapers
Bad accountants
Bad teachers
Always ask around and confirm a reputation from PAST CUSTOMERS!
My most recent example of "bad" was I realized my inspection sticker had expired. Here in Maine they not only check dash lights but also plug in to check the OBD codes. The dealer was too busy (inspection free with an oil change) so I swung into a mom and pop garage. I mean how hard is an inspection sticker... Within three minutes the owner comes out telling me it won't pass because I need an O2 sensor.
Him: "I can't pass your car, it needs an oxygen sensor."
Me: "Oh really, is that bad?" (at first I played dumb)
Him: "Yes, very bad it can ruin your engine?"
Me: "What code did it set?"
Him: "An OBD code for the oxygen sensor."
Me: "No I mean which sensor, there are four O2 sensors on this vehicle?"
Him: "Stammer, stammer, ummm let me check with my guy who checked the OBD.." (now he's getting nervous)
Him: "It's the rear sensor in the manifold." (of course the most expensive one to replace)
Me: "That's interesting because I have a test from 2 hours ago right here on my smart phone showing no codes? Here's the report showing the time and date. Can you have your guy pull the code again so I can see it and so I can take it up with the maker of my OBD scan tool?"
Him: "Umm, ahh, err sure I guess but you're not allowed in the garage and those DIY code readers are junk & not accurate at all."
Me: That's ok because I can see him pull the test from here and I can watch you take a photo of the code with your smart phone, then you can walk over here and show me."
Him: "Starts to get more argumentative then gives up because there are other customers in the waiting room."
Tech: "Plugs in his scan tool, same brand "junk" OBD tool I use BTW, and comes up with no code."
Me: "Excuse my DIY ignorance here but you weren't trying to pull a fast one on me were you?"
Him: "Oh no, not at all sir, my guy is just a little bit over-tired today." (now I am a "sir"..)
Wound up not getting charged for the inspection (in front of other customers to save face) but if I had not checked for codes, as I always do before a State inspection, I would have been out about $650.00 per his estimate... There are crooks everywhere! I made the mistake of not doing my homework and only saved my bacon because I had checked for codes earlier..
Don't get me started. One rant a day is enough. Oh - it's a new day! Boatyards are the reason why I'm moving away from non-trailerable boats. The one I use now has nice people, particularly the front office. But I recently had some exhaust work done, which was quite expensive, and they noted my oil pressure wasn't working and put a new sender in. OK - how can you complain about that? Well it adds more to what is already a pretty big bill. And guess what? It isn't working again. It isn't working because of a loose wire connection, I think, because it comes and goes. I don't believe they tested the gauge as they said they did because they would have to take the head liner off. I don't think they did that. At least they didn't charge me for the time to do that. It's not a big deal but every time I crack open my wallet money flies out that didn't need to. Every spring and fall there are those little extras. This spring they replaced both of my batteries. One definitely was bad. But I was planning to convert over to GCB's and do some other improvements to the charging system. So now I have more of the same. No consultation regarding what kind of batteries I want. Just "Your batteries were bad so we replaced them." So now I have two group 27 batteries and by the way I don't notice the replaced/cleaned battery terminals that the bill included. But maybe I'm being unfair. They want to be a full service facility and I want to participate in taking care of my boat. I've fixed many things on this boat and others I've owned. I couldn't do the exhaust system because, I wasn't physically able to contort my body into the space I needed to work in and I thought it was likely I would either break a bolt or round off the head and then would have to turn it over to them to "Fix." But they have that "We know best" culture.
Ditto. How about a project manager who sends you daily updates and photos? And, it came in under the estimate and time. Very professional.
1. If the job is straight forward and easy to define, I can do it.
2. If it is a pain in the arse and I'm not sure how it will go... of course it's going to get ugly, so I might as well do it.
3. If you have no idea... it could be more complicated than anyone realized, or you could be getting worked. Hard to say. This is true in all crafts.
I try to only sub-out canvas work, which is easy to define.
2. If it is a pain in the arse and I'm not sure how it will go... of course it's going to get ugly, so I might as well do it.
3. If you have no idea... it could be more complicated than anyone realized, or you could be getting worked. Hard to say. This is true in all crafts.
I try to only sub-out canvas work, which is easy to define.
Noticeably absent is any ID of the actual problem. While some yards may be unscrupulous, it's hard to be objective without hearing their explanation of the apparent overcharge. Clearly, you asked...., right?
I agree. What is the problem? I do ALL of the work on my boat so I can only complain about my own stupidity.
So, there's no problem if you don't deal with a boatyard? That's what we're saying.
Could be the OP doesn't want to give out too much detail, keeping the boatyard in question from further punishing him financially, not to mention legally.
Sometimes I get to blame my wife for certain snafus. Gently, of course.
Last edited:
Could be worse....I got taken by a general contractor who was supposedly to build a 3rd car garage on to my existing structure. Took a deposit and hasn’t been heard from since. Shame on me, I am usually smarter than that...but this a$$hole will call me and threaten me when I post a bad review with the home improvement outfit that recommended them. Hard to believe some people can be that bold. I am sure it will take legal action to get my $$back, but even then, without court enforcement action ( not provided in small claims court), any reimbursement requires this guy’s cooperation. And I don’t think that will happen. Got the Indiana Arrorney General’s office involved, but doubt that will do much good.
Not sure whose case is worse...but I think I was dumber
Greg
Not sure whose case is worse...but I think I was dumber
Greg
Last edited:
First of all, you must remember to get all the quotes in BLACK & WHITE!
1. Stating the issue or problem.
2. Agreed on the parts replacement new or used or repaired.
3. Agreed that repair personnel is fully insured and trained for this projects.
4. Agreed on the price, cost, etc.. 50% down and 25% on the sea trial final 25% on your acceptance
5. Agreed on delivery after testing repairs or work.
6. Agreed on warrantee by boatyard 30 60 90 days.
Now, this you can go to small claims court with.
You can NOT, rely upon the old HANDSHAKE! or even their WORD anymore.
If you do well you deserve to be LUBED..lol
1. Stating the issue or problem.
2. Agreed on the parts replacement new or used or repaired.
3. Agreed that repair personnel is fully insured and trained for this projects.
4. Agreed on the price, cost, etc.. 50% down and 25% on the sea trial final 25% on your acceptance
5. Agreed on delivery after testing repairs or work.
6. Agreed on warrantee by boatyard 30 60 90 days.
Now, this you can go to small claims court with.
You can NOT, rely upon the old HANDSHAKE! or even their WORD anymore.
If you do well you deserve to be LUBED..lol
I usually only have the yard lift the boat and do the bottom. Our yard next to the marina does not allow DIY. The good thing is that mostly they did quality work but that could vary with the roll of the dice!.. One of the workers got a bit sauced up one evening and took a customer's boat for a joy ride up the bayou , hitting a couple of docks and a few boats along the way.. Luckily my boat was not involved.. The yard was recently sold to a guy who has another yard about 20 miles away.. so we'll see how he handles the place..
Best yard I worked with allows DIY but it is a couple/three days to get there.. The yard is Bahia Mar in Pensacola.. their quotes were right on and timing was as discussed.. I had to get them to get a new skeg, which they handled very well.. but my buddy and I did all of the work..
EDIT: Oh yeah.. make sure what you get from them is a quote and not an estimate.. big difference ..
Best yard I worked with allows DIY but it is a couple/three days to get there.. The yard is Bahia Mar in Pensacola.. their quotes were right on and timing was as discussed.. I had to get them to get a new skeg, which they handled very well.. but my buddy and I did all of the work..
EDIT: Oh yeah.. make sure what you get from them is a quote and not an estimate.. big difference ..
Wow..I’ve owned boats since 1980 in the PNW. I’ve used yards in Seattle, Anacortes, and Bellingham. I state what work I want done and for what price or estimated price if its time/materials. Its written on a work order and we both sign it. Anything extra without authorization is on them. That has happened a time or two and they did it knowing it was a freebie for good will. Everything paid by credit card.
I don't know about the pricing and business practices of other yards, but the ones we've always delt with in Clearwater, Tarpon Springs, and a few in Maine treated us well, except... there is this dance we always called "the boatyard shuffle".
You want your bottom painted. The yard sends a guy out to your boat on the hard to do it. He shuffles out and surveys the job. It's going to take paint. Back to the shed for paint. Back at your boat, he puts the can on the ground and scratches his head. Something's missing. The brush! Go get the brush. Ok, ready to go. He tries to open the can. Needs a stewdriver. Go get that. Oops, a step ladder. Go get that. Ok, all set. Get up on the ladder and survey the job. Maybe he should mask off some stuff. Back to the shop. It's a big yard and now it's lunch time.
The Boatyard Shuffle.
Related to the Union jive.
-Will (Dragonfly)
You want your bottom painted. The yard sends a guy out to your boat on the hard to do it. He shuffles out and surveys the job. It's going to take paint. Back to the shed for paint. Back at your boat, he puts the can on the ground and scratches his head. Something's missing. The brush! Go get the brush. Ok, ready to go. He tries to open the can. Needs a stewdriver. Go get that. Oops, a step ladder. Go get that. Ok, all set. Get up on the ladder and survey the job. Maybe he should mask off some stuff. Back to the shop. It's a big yard and now it's lunch time.
The Boatyard Shuffle.
Related to the Union jive.
-Will (Dragonfly)
Last edited:
