Recently my wife and have been talking about getting a sailboat. Her father had a 45' Stink boat when she was a kid and I was brought up around ski boats. WE have narrowed our choices to 2 boats we've looked at. The real question is neither one of us has sailed and yet We are ready to spend $30,000+ on a boat. Are we crazy?
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No More Than the Rest of Us
who keep throwing money down a whole in the water. I would suggest a small one first or in addition to to help learn the basics and fundementals.
who keep throwing money down a whole in the water. I would suggest a small one first or in addition to to help learn the basics and fundementals.
Just a story, but maybe some truth
I had a friend who had a boat he kept in a marina in San Diego. He would go over there every weekend to work on it and occasionally sail. A few months ago it was stolen. But he still goes over there every weekend, stands on the pier and throws money into the water. Old habits are hard to break I guess.
I had a friend who had a boat he kept in a marina in San Diego. He would go over there every weekend to work on it and occasionally sail. A few months ago it was stolen. But he still goes over there every weekend, stands on the pier and throws money into the water. Old habits are hard to break I guess.
No, if...
you're willing to take the time to learn how to handle a sailboat. I would second the idea of starting on something a little smaller than a $30k boat, to get a feel for just what really attracts you to sailing. Handling a boat under sail can be intimidating until you understand what all those lines are doing, and know in your gut that its ok for the boat to heel over. Then you'll find that it adds a fantastic element to your life, and your life style. Also, before you lay your money down, get to know some of your local sailors, spend some time crewing on other boats, listen to what they like and dislike about various designs and why. Its not crazy, just a big jump. Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
you're willing to take the time to learn how to handle a sailboat. I would second the idea of starting on something a little smaller than a $30k boat, to get a feel for just what really attracts you to sailing. Handling a boat under sail can be intimidating until you understand what all those lines are doing, and know in your gut that its ok for the boat to heel over. Then you'll find that it adds a fantastic element to your life, and your life style. Also, before you lay your money down, get to know some of your local sailors, spend some time crewing on other boats, listen to what they like and dislike about various designs and why. Its not crazy, just a big jump. Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
Learn first - then go for it.
Scott and Jackie, before you plunk down hard-earned money on romantic notions of sailing off into glorious sunsets let me make this suggestion: LEARN TO SAIL, FIRST! Use some of your sailboat money to enroll in an intensive week-long sailing school, such as J-World, Annapolis, and others. Treat it like a vacation. You'll have a lot of fun, learn enough to purchase the right boat sail it with confidence and you'll meet others who share your blossoming passion for sailing.
Scott and Jackie, before you plunk down hard-earned money on romantic notions of sailing off into glorious sunsets let me make this suggestion: LEARN TO SAIL, FIRST! Use some of your sailboat money to enroll in an intensive week-long sailing school, such as J-World, Annapolis, and others. Treat it like a vacation. You'll have a lot of fun, learn enough to purchase the right boat sail it with confidence and you'll meet others who share your blossoming passion for sailing.
I agree with Joe . . .
Imagine if you will dropping literally 10's of thousands of dollars on an item and not knowing how it works. More than that, consider that sailing, while a very enjoyable sport, requires knowledge of certain skills that are not intuitive, the lack of which could endanger yourself and everyone else aboard. I STRONGLY recommend that, before you buy a boat, go to one of the MANY sailing schools available throughout the country to learn not only sailing, but boat maintenance as well. ASA certifying schools are particularly good at this.
Imagine if you will dropping literally 10's of thousands of dollars on an item and not knowing how it works. More than that, consider that sailing, while a very enjoyable sport, requires knowledge of certain skills that are not intuitive, the lack of which could endanger yourself and everyone else aboard. I STRONGLY recommend that, before you buy a boat, go to one of the MANY sailing schools available throughout the country to learn not only sailing, but boat maintenance as well. ASA certifying schools are particularly good at this.
Yes to Sailing school and
I also recommend renting small keelboats at first and then work your way through a couple of charters. Crewed then bare boat. If you survive all this, start looking for "your" boat based on your newly acquired experience. The voice of reason? Greg H23 Faster-
I also recommend renting small keelboats at first and then work your way through a couple of charters. Crewed then bare boat. If you survive all this, start looking for "your" boat based on your newly acquired experience. The voice of reason? Greg H23 Faster-
Same advice
Buying a boat involves compromises -- and risks. I would say more so with sailboats than power boats. Until you have have some experience, you won't be able to understand the compromises or recognize the risks. If I was in your shoes, I would 1) take sailing lessons or go sailing with friend to show you the basics, 2) read lots of books about how to sail and how the basic systems on a sailboat work; 3) rent sailboats for your first few outings, if possible. Don't take these posts as discouragement; sailing is a wonderful endevour that combines art and science, nature and technology, and ancient and new. You never stop learning. I never cease to feel that little thrill when I shut off the engine and feel my craft being carried away by nothing more than the whisper of the wind. I call it "God's sport."
Buying a boat involves compromises -- and risks. I would say more so with sailboats than power boats. Until you have have some experience, you won't be able to understand the compromises or recognize the risks. If I was in your shoes, I would 1) take sailing lessons or go sailing with friend to show you the basics, 2) read lots of books about how to sail and how the basic systems on a sailboat work; 3) rent sailboats for your first few outings, if possible. Don't take these posts as discouragement; sailing is a wonderful endevour that combines art and science, nature and technology, and ancient and new. You never stop learning. I never cease to feel that little thrill when I shut off the engine and feel my craft being carried away by nothing more than the whisper of the wind. I call it "God's sport."
Ditto
If and when the big day happens, be sure to buy a big enough boat. I assume that you are going to be sailing the Great Lakes. There are many great places to go and overnite in your area. Look at spending your $30k on a larger used boat vs a smaller new boat. You will find that the larger boat is MUCH MUCH easier to handle when mother nature throws the unexpected at you. Other than hoisting larger sails and some docking techniques a larger boat is not that much more difficult to sail. On the other side the larger you go the more EVERYTHING costs. More berthing, more for sail new sails, more for lines and on and on. I also think after having a smaller boat H'25 and then the H'31. A boat with an inboard takes a little more maintenance but make manuvering easier. Regardless of which way you go. Get proper training (and they only teach you basics). You will be learning forever. Get a boat you can live with. And remember you can throw away the Prozac, cancel the Dr. appointments for the shrink (gonna need the money for the boat). This is probably the BEST therapy you will ever get.
If and when the big day happens, be sure to buy a big enough boat. I assume that you are going to be sailing the Great Lakes. There are many great places to go and overnite in your area. Look at spending your $30k on a larger used boat vs a smaller new boat. You will find that the larger boat is MUCH MUCH easier to handle when mother nature throws the unexpected at you. Other than hoisting larger sails and some docking techniques a larger boat is not that much more difficult to sail. On the other side the larger you go the more EVERYTHING costs. More berthing, more for sail new sails, more for lines and on and on. I also think after having a smaller boat H'25 and then the H'31. A boat with an inboard takes a little more maintenance but make manuvering easier. Regardless of which way you go. Get proper training (and they only teach you basics). You will be learning forever. Get a boat you can live with. And remember you can throw away the Prozac, cancel the Dr. appointments for the shrink (gonna need the money for the boat). This is probably the BEST therapy you will ever get.
Taking the other side
It makes me crazy to see unanamous opinions.
In my opinion, sailors tend you be cauious group. But not everyone makes decisions the same way, or has the same resources. If you mkae impulsive decisions but know from experience your impulses are usually right... and if you've got the resources to afford to sell your boat for another if find later you made a mistake... go for it! While sailing lessons would be extremely important, why not take them on your very own boat? That way you can learn the specifisc of deocking what you own, too. Believe me, people do much crazier stuff than this with sailboats all the time. Impulsive is fine, so long as you're pretty sure you're not being stupid. Yours in the interest of equal time, ph.
It makes me crazy to see unanamous opinions.
In my opinion, sailors tend you be cauious group. But not everyone makes decisions the same way, or has the same resources. If you mkae impulsive decisions but know from experience your impulses are usually right... and if you've got the resources to afford to sell your boat for another if find later you made a mistake... go for it! While sailing lessons would be extremely important, why not take them on your very own boat? That way you can learn the specifisc of deocking what you own, too. Believe me, people do much crazier stuff than this with sailboats all the time. Impulsive is fine, so long as you're pretty sure you're not being stupid. Yours in the interest of equal time, ph.There's no harm in waiting
And you wouldn't really have to wait long - just as long as it takes to go sailing a few times. Head down to the marina & see if you can hop a ride - lots of crewing opportunites will be available. I like Phil's suggestion of taking lessons on your boat but I really recommend to actually GO sailing a few times before jumping in with both feet. Maybe there's someone here who might offer you a ride?? Good luck and, above all, have fun! LaDonna
And you wouldn't really have to wait long - just as long as it takes to go sailing a few times. Head down to the marina & see if you can hop a ride - lots of crewing opportunites will be available. I like Phil's suggestion of taking lessons on your boat but I really recommend to actually GO sailing a few times before jumping in with both feet. Maybe there's someone here who might offer you a ride?? Good luck and, above all, have fun! LaDonna
I Agree With Phil
Personally, I agree with Phil. About this time last year my wife and I attended a local dealer's on the water boat show/demo. We spent the afternoon on a Hunter 240 and a month later took delivery on our own 240. No, it wasn't 30K, but it was over 20, and neither of us had EVER been sailing before. In fairness, I admit that I had spent the previous year reading everything I could on sailing and boats, but still, we had no practical experience. It is now almost a year later. We have sailed in all kinds of weather, including a real blow or two. We have sailed by ourselves and with more knowledgeable sailors. We go to the boat almost every weekend that the weather is at all conducive to sailing. Was it a risk? Certainly. A mistake?. Not a chance. Buying and sailing this boat has been the best decision I (we) ever made. Go for it.
Personally, I agree with Phil. About this time last year my wife and I attended a local dealer's on the water boat show/demo. We spent the afternoon on a Hunter 240 and a month later took delivery on our own 240. No, it wasn't 30K, but it was over 20, and neither of us had EVER been sailing before. In fairness, I admit that I had spent the previous year reading everything I could on sailing and boats, but still, we had no practical experience. It is now almost a year later. We have sailed in all kinds of weather, including a real blow or two. We have sailed by ourselves and with more knowledgeable sailors. We go to the boat almost every weekend that the weather is at all conducive to sailing. Was it a risk? Certainly. A mistake?. Not a chance. Buying and sailing this boat has been the best decision I (we) ever made. Go for it.
Gotta do it
I've wanted to sail for years but never dreamed I would do it. Last Sept. my wife and I went to Offshore Sailing School on Captiva Island for a week. I was so excited that I started looking for a boat in November and December in between snow showers. I've talked to at least 30 people who own boats around Michigan and not a one had ever taken a lesson. They were amazed that I had went to sailing school and all said they wished they had. I originally started looking at small boats then big boats (35+) and settled on a 79 Hunter 30 in very good condition for under $15,000. My point: If you really want to do it, it's not about making the right decision but making your decision right. Good luck!
I've wanted to sail for years but never dreamed I would do it. Last Sept. my wife and I went to Offshore Sailing School on Captiva Island for a week. I was so excited that I started looking for a boat in November and December in between snow showers. I've talked to at least 30 people who own boats around Michigan and not a one had ever taken a lesson. They were amazed that I had went to sailing school and all said they wished they had. I originally started looking at small boats then big boats (35+) and settled on a 79 Hunter 30 in very good condition for under $15,000. My point: If you really want to do it, it's not about making the right decision but making your decision right. Good luck!
Not crazy, inspired!
If you have the resources, do it. By all means, learn, listen, take it slow, be careful, but do it. There are all sorts of pratical reasons to buy a given boat, not a different boat, whatever. The reality of it is that they're all expensive, maintenance intensive, and sometimes a pain in the neck. They're also the most fun you can have, a gateway to otherwise in accessable opportunities, an arena for challenging both yourselves and your relationship, and the best therapy you can buy. Think about your perfect day on the water, or life on the water. Then start haunting boatyards, yacht clubs, mailing list, websites. Etc. Think about your personality and find boats that match. The guys at the dock with the BMW convertables tend to have racey boats. My little VW takes me to my little cruiser. Remember that the entry cost is only the beginning, and if the 30k is the total budget, save a good chunk of it. Always have a contingency fund for when something breaks and you'll be a lot less stressed when it does, and it will break. Ask every question you can think of. If you find someone is not repsonsive to your questions, ask someone else. Make sure that both of you become capable sailors. In many relationships, the husband is the skipper, but you will both have more fun if you become a true team. And a lot of what you learn on the water comes back with you on the land. You will get a lot of practical advice about boating, boat buying, sailing, maintenance, etc. Much of it is sage. You'll learn which was. My advice: if sailing gets you in the chest, and you can afford to risk the cash, do it. I doubt strongly you'll regret. But I think you already knew this. So really, I all I want to know is what boat you pick. Welcome to the party. Smooth seas and fair breazes. Justin - O'day Owner's Web
If you have the resources, do it. By all means, learn, listen, take it slow, be careful, but do it. There are all sorts of pratical reasons to buy a given boat, not a different boat, whatever. The reality of it is that they're all expensive, maintenance intensive, and sometimes a pain in the neck. They're also the most fun you can have, a gateway to otherwise in accessable opportunities, an arena for challenging both yourselves and your relationship, and the best therapy you can buy. Think about your perfect day on the water, or life on the water. Then start haunting boatyards, yacht clubs, mailing list, websites. Etc. Think about your personality and find boats that match. The guys at the dock with the BMW convertables tend to have racey boats. My little VW takes me to my little cruiser. Remember that the entry cost is only the beginning, and if the 30k is the total budget, save a good chunk of it. Always have a contingency fund for when something breaks and you'll be a lot less stressed when it does, and it will break. Ask every question you can think of. If you find someone is not repsonsive to your questions, ask someone else. Make sure that both of you become capable sailors. In many relationships, the husband is the skipper, but you will both have more fun if you become a true team. And a lot of what you learn on the water comes back with you on the land. You will get a lot of practical advice about boating, boat buying, sailing, maintenance, etc. Much of it is sage. You'll learn which was. My advice: if sailing gets you in the chest, and you can afford to risk the cash, do it. I doubt strongly you'll regret. But I think you already knew this. So really, I all I want to know is what boat you pick. Welcome to the party. Smooth seas and fair breazes. Justin - O'day Owner's Web
all ye nunc pro tunc (then as now)
Phil, I find it hard to believe that you've never thought "if only I knew then what I know now." The inital jump into a hobby with as high an inital cost as sailing requires a bit of crazy, or blind faith. Truth is, sailing is a skill sport, and it requires that you be able to at least approximate good boat and sail handling skills as soon as you get out on the water. Its easier to do, and easier on your nerves, if you have a friend or a sailing school to teach you the basics. But, once you've got your boat and are comfortable taking it out, you understand that you have to be crazy to not want to sail. Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
Phil, I find it hard to believe that you've never thought "if only I knew then what I know now." The inital jump into a hobby with as high an inital cost as sailing requires a bit of crazy, or blind faith. Truth is, sailing is a skill sport, and it requires that you be able to at least approximate good boat and sail handling skills as soon as you get out on the water. Its easier to do, and easier on your nerves, if you have a friend or a sailing school to teach you the basics. But, once you've got your boat and are comfortable taking it out, you understand that you have to be crazy to not want to sail. Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
Agreed
I'm certainly not advocating purchase *instead* of lessons. But I think it's possible to do both in parallel.
I'm certainly not advocating purchase *instead* of lessons. But I think it's possible to do both in parallel.
Rational Exuberance
I'm going to side with the impulsive school of thought. There's nothing wrong with the cautious approach, but that's not to say you can't have impulses (dreams) and then have the fun of chasing them. I waited 20 years to buy my first boat. I expected that when I was ready, I would do a lot of studying and research, and after an exhaustive process, buy the best boat for me. But what really happened was that one day I impulsively answered an ad in a local newspaper, and 45 days later and several other ads later, I bought a 1987 Hunter 28.5. I had no friends who owned sailboats, and had only been on a cabin-class sailboat once in my life. I knew nothing other than this was a dream I wanted to chase. So when I decided to buy a boat, I stuck exclusively to used Hunters, reasoning that if the boat turned out not to my liking, it's such a popular make that the boat should be easy to sell. After buying the boat, I signed up for a 3 day basic keelboat class at my local ASA sailing school (BaySail on the upper Chesapeake), which was taught on a Capri 22. After that, I also hired an instructor for private docking lessons. On top of all this, I applied my experience as a pilot, in respecting the weather and the limits of my boat and my very limited sailing experience. But as that first season progressed, sailing became more and more enjoyable, as with each outing I became more knowledgable and confident. If you've dreamed of sailing and/or owning your own sailboat, chase that dream! Be rational in your exuberance, and be willing to invest some time and money in doing what needs to be done. The pure enjoyment and relaxation of sailing will leave you saying what I've been saying, "Why didn't I do this years ago?"
I'm going to side with the impulsive school of thought. There's nothing wrong with the cautious approach, but that's not to say you can't have impulses (dreams) and then have the fun of chasing them. I waited 20 years to buy my first boat. I expected that when I was ready, I would do a lot of studying and research, and after an exhaustive process, buy the best boat for me. But what really happened was that one day I impulsively answered an ad in a local newspaper, and 45 days later and several other ads later, I bought a 1987 Hunter 28.5. I had no friends who owned sailboats, and had only been on a cabin-class sailboat once in my life. I knew nothing other than this was a dream I wanted to chase. So when I decided to buy a boat, I stuck exclusively to used Hunters, reasoning that if the boat turned out not to my liking, it's such a popular make that the boat should be easy to sell. After buying the boat, I signed up for a 3 day basic keelboat class at my local ASA sailing school (BaySail on the upper Chesapeake), which was taught on a Capri 22. After that, I also hired an instructor for private docking lessons. On top of all this, I applied my experience as a pilot, in respecting the weather and the limits of my boat and my very limited sailing experience. But as that first season progressed, sailing became more and more enjoyable, as with each outing I became more knowledgable and confident. If you've dreamed of sailing and/or owning your own sailboat, chase that dream! Be rational in your exuberance, and be willing to invest some time and money in doing what needs to be done. The pure enjoyment and relaxation of sailing will leave you saying what I've been saying, "Why didn't I do this years ago?"
Death and taxes are the only sure things in life
We were in your situation almost two years ago. We had always wanted a sailboat but never had the time and our 3 kids were growing up FAST. So we decided to make the time and just do it. We bought a used 376, my wife took the Coast Guard sailing class (I travel too much)we hired an instructor to teach us on our own boat and read everything and asked questions of everone (especially this site). We have been cautious and careful (spending most of last summer in Narraganset Bay) but have learned how to handel the boat. Note: use/make sailing freinds to help during the first year. This year we will venture further from home. Assuming you are careful and don't get into serious trouble the worst thing that can happen is that you decide to sell the boat. Nothing ventured nothing gained Russell S/V Allie Kat
We were in your situation almost two years ago. We had always wanted a sailboat but never had the time and our 3 kids were growing up FAST. So we decided to make the time and just do it. We bought a used 376, my wife took the Coast Guard sailing class (I travel too much)we hired an instructor to teach us on our own boat and read everything and asked questions of everone (especially this site). We have been cautious and careful (spending most of last summer in Narraganset Bay) but have learned how to handel the boat. Note: use/make sailing freinds to help during the first year. This year we will venture further from home. Assuming you are careful and don't get into serious trouble the worst thing that can happen is that you decide to sell the boat. Nothing ventured nothing gained Russell S/V Allie Kat
20 years is too long
I agree with Eric. 20 years is too long to wait to buy your boat. 18 or 19 years ought to do it.
I agree with Eric. 20 years is too long to wait to buy your boat. 18 or 19 years ought to do it.
Go for It!
Be careful with your selection. Make sure bottom is solid and sails are in good shape. Have it surveyed. In the $30,000 price range, we'd go with a used Catalina 30 with a diesel, not an Atomic. It is an easy boat to sail, especially if you have roller furling on the Genoa. Lots of room to spend nights aboard. Good galley, if you don't have an alcohol stove. Good luck and Pura Vida! G&G
Be careful with your selection. Make sure bottom is solid and sails are in good shape. Have it surveyed. In the $30,000 price range, we'd go with a used Catalina 30 with a diesel, not an Atomic. It is an easy boat to sail, especially if you have roller furling on the Genoa. Lots of room to spend nights aboard. Good galley, if you don't have an alcohol stove. Good luck and Pura Vida! G&G
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