Anyone sailed a 14' American?

[themadscientist]

This craft.
http://www.americansail.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&Itemid=7

I have a line on one, the price and terms of sale are still being discussed. Everything I can find on it suggests it would be a great starter boat for me. I have no experience and am trying to get into a sailing course. I have a very small budget and am looking for a boat that:

1. Is within my budget to purchase and prepare to seaworthiness; it is.
2. Has a positive flotation hull; this does.
3. Has a main and foresail rig so I can learn the handling of two sails; it does.
4. Does not require marina storage; it doesn't.
5. Can confidently and safely carry two; it seems to.

I would appreciate any first-hand experiences from those that have owned or had the opportunity to sail this boat, or one similar to it. My one concern is its stability in coastal waters. I would be using it in calm seas around a pacific island.

 

[Tom Hoffman]

You might want to do a site search for Sumner's posts. He sails a 26' water balast boat and he and his wife were brand new to sailing. They took their boat to a lake and proceeded to learn on their own.

The 14' boat you are looking at is definitely a beginner boat. I sure wouldn't want to take it into the ocean. I think you will find very quickly that it is not much more than a toy and now you will be faced with selling it and moving up looking for something with more capability.

This fall there will be a huge number of boats forsale.

I bought a 26' American (different mfg.) in Feb, with trailer included, for $1500. I have had to spend about an additional $1000 to get it ready to sail this next month. The original asking price on Craig's list was $2500. It was iced up in Feb in Iowa and the seller was motivated.

Keep looking is my advice.

Tom...

 

[themadscientist]

Ouch. Definitely food for thought, though; thank you.

 

[Tom Hoffman]

I didn't mean to rain on your idea. I guess I am of the school of American thought: "If a little is good, a lot has just got to be better!"

Pay me no attention. I am just frustrated right now trying to get my boat bottom painted and every time I have it scheduled, my helper decides to not show up that day.

I would do it my self, except that I don't fit into tight places anymore.

Have a good night.

 

[sinnettc]

It really depends on what the conditions are like where you'll sail. If you're in a protected harbor and the water isn't freezing cold year round then this might be ok. I live in Oregon where the ocean is cold and the wind/waves are usually strong/big even in the summer; I wouldn't take it on the ocean.

My last boat was a Capri 16.5, not much bigger than what you're looking at, and I really wouldn't consider taking it out on the ocean either. I would use it in a harbor though.

If you do go this route there are a few things you should do:

1) Always wear a life jacket - ALWAYS

2) Capsize the boat under controlled conditions (near the beach) and make sure you can right it. I didn't with the 16.5 and came *very* close to wishing I had.

3) If it has a tendency to turtle (go completely upside down) then consider getting a mast float.

4) Make sure you can climb back in the boat from the water. If it's at all difficult near the beach imagine what it will be like in the middle of the harbor with nobody around. Add a fold up step or a fold up ladder to the stern.

5) If you don't have reef points in your main, consider having them added

6) If you think you need to reef then you already should have!

I do think there is some advantage to learning to sail in small boats first. The sail controls are often simpler and the action/reaction when you change something is pretty quick and obvious.

My progression was as follows:

Family trips on Dad's 25' full keel sloop as a kid. Learned basics - rules of the road, raise/lower sails, basic sail trim using the sheets.

30 years later . . .

Laser - refresh basic skills, learned about vang, cunningham, outhaul, and daggerboard. Not very effective or comfortable sailing with 2 people. Draft about 3 inches with the board up, 2 feet with it down, expect to capsize often. Takes 10 minutes to set up. Wetsuit a requirement in cold conditions.

Capri 16.5 - Added a furling jib to the equation, swing centerboard, stayed mast, reef points and jiffy reefing for the main. Draft is 6 inches with the board up, about 3-1/2 feet with it down. Good for 3 adults or 2 adults and a couple of kids. Huge cuddy forward where you can store lunch, dry clothes, etc. Takes 30-45 minutes to set up. Not as wet as the laser but not a dry ride either and will capsize/turtle.

Capri 22 - Adds racing foil and multiple jibs/Genoas, adjustable jib/genoa cars, windward sheeting traveller, and adjustable backstay to the mix; also a spinnaker I haven't figured out yet. 4 foot fixed keel and 30 foot mast. Easily sails with 4-6 adults/kids. Has porta potty and sleeps 2 comfortably. Get to worry about things like batteries, outboards, nav lights, water depth and bridge clearance. Takes 2-3 hours to set up. We rarely get wet and that's usually just a bit of spray.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

 

[themadscientist]

I didn't mean to rain on your idea. I guess I am of the school of American thought: "If a little is good, a lot has just got to be better!"

Pay me no attention. I am just frustrated right now trying to get my boat bottom painted and every time I have it scheduled, my helper decides to not show up that day.

I would do it my self, except that I don't fit into tight places anymore.

Have a good night.

You didn't. I want frank honest opinion and I got that. I feel your pain, I am not as limber as I used to be either. Sorry your helper isn't living up to his name; hope the job gets done so you can get back in the water.



I will be sailing in the ocean, but very close to shore, close enough that I could be on the beach in 5-10 minutes if conditions get sketchy. I'm in almost the south pacific so the water and weather is normally agreeable. Regardless, My first purchases will be wetsuits, serious PFDs and other emergency gear.
I tend to over prepare anyway, but having my wife with me cranks my tendencies into full overdrive. I ride motorcycles and drive entirely too fast in close proximity to similar folks often, and I am one of the few people who really takes safety equipment seriously. Doing dangerous stuff is fine, doing it without protecting yourself is stupid and I don't play like that. :naughty:

 

[RECESS]

I think you are getting a great boat for your area. I would not hesitate to take that into the ocean. I have taken a lot less several miles off shore. When I lived in the Azores the locals took row boats more than 7 miles offshore to fish. The way it is built looks like it is designed to keep the spray to a minimum from coming over the bow and sides. It looks a lot more seaworthy than many of the 22 foot sailboats I see out in the Gulf of Mexico that were really designed for lake sailing.

You just have to watch the weather closely and never push it. I bet you can do some great near shore fishing on that boat.

 

[RECESS]

A few more notes.

I watched the video again on the site. There are two additions I would make to the boat right away. If that traveler guide on the stern of the boat is rope or synthetic, I would replace it with SS cable right away. The last thing you want in a knock down situation is to have your boom and mainsail disabled because a gust of wind took out the traveler guide rope. Second I would get a good strength trolling motor and install to one side of the transom. It really kills a great day on the ocean to have the wind die and you have to paddle or swim the boat back to shore, I have done it too many times. The other thing you will find with a trolling motor is that you use the boat more often. There are days when you just do not feel like raising the mast but a nice motor out for a half hour is nice.

 

[sinnettc]

If that traveler guide on the stern of the boat is rope or synthetic, I would replace it with SS cable right away. The last thing you want in a knock down situation is to have your boom and mainsail disabled because a gust of wind took out the traveler guide rope.

My Capri 16.5 had a rope traveller. I never heard anyone mention having one fail on the Capri 16.5 forum, nor upgrading to wire. I nearly got knocked down in 25+ ktnot weather and the traveller was not what I was worried about - losing the rig or ripping a sail were my concerns.

Second I would get a good strength trolling motor and install to one side of the transom. It really kills a great day on the ocean to have the wind die and you have to paddle or swim the boat back to shore, I have done it too many times. The other thing you will find with a trolling motor is that you use the boat more often. There are days when you just do not feel like raising the mast but a nice motor out for a half hour is nice.

That one I'll agree with. We had one and it was very handy. Dropping the centerboard at least a little bit will help the boat track better if you're just motoring.

 

[RECESS]

I had a traveler rope (that had some age and wear) snap once on Lake Monroe Florida. Really shallow lake that forms white caps fast. Scared the wife. I was able to tie off in a center position and keep on going.

 

[themadscientist]

If I can get the boat, every part will be scrutinized. I am ready to replace every inch of rope, every bit of hardware, reinforce any area that gives me pause. I will look at these things for sure.

 

[themadscientist]

I took a good look at it today. It is in a lot of four that were used as rental boats. Three are pretty scuffed-up, I picked the nicest of the lot to bid on. The hull is solid with no cracks that I could detect, it could use a good polish and wax of course. The hardware is all stainless. It all could do with a polish, not rusty just cruddy. The blocks are Harken and spin freely, no winches. The rudder blade is fine but the two metal sheets it is sandwiched in and the tiller are junk. All the lines should be replaced. The sails are jammed in the forward storage, it's a toss-up on those, but what I see looks serviceable. It is a rope traveler and I will swap it for cable as suggested or something equivalently significant. The drop-down centerboard needs to be taken apart and serviced.

Overall, I see
a solid hull that needs no repairs, just cleaning.
hardware to remove, clean and shine up.
a rudder to be rebuilt.
a centerboard system to clean and service.
a couple of yards of line to replace.
a traveler system to upgrade.

No deal-breakers for me there. I won't know until the end of June if I won the auction so back the daily grind and we will see what transpires.

 

[RECESS]

Get the the March/April issue of Good Old Boat. It has an outstanding how to on building a rudder the right way on pages 35 through 41. It is not just a good article, it is an outstanding how to on building rudders. The project they did was for a large boat, but all the techniques apply to any size rudder.

You can order the back issue online, it will be worth the $10 for oversees ording if you are going to build a rudder.

http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/back_issues.php#2010

 

[esterhazyinoz]

Good luck on your auction bid. I'm sure you will love the benefits of a small boat that is easy to launch/sail/maintain. I just purchased a new Hunter 15, a similar boat to the American, Catalina 14.6, Precision 15 and probably many more that I am not aware of.
I launched my boat for the first time this weekend on the Swan River in Perth, Western Australia. Fortunately the winds were only 5-10 knots, a civilised wind speed for my first time in this small boat.
As to whether or not I would take a 15 footer on the ocean really depends on what conditions are usual in your part of the world. I used to sail a 21 foot daysailer of local design and with the strong winds during the summer here I was always glad to have a good deal of lead under the boat. From my first outing I saw that maintaining balance by correct positioning of the crew was going to be very important. Also make sure you have a mainsheet block system that allows you to quickly release the sheet to spill the wind and de-power.
FYI, a set of new sails will probably cost you about $600-$700 (that is what a replacement set from North Sails cost for my Hunter).
BTW, What is the typical wind strength and swell in your area?

 

[EBarnacle]

Hi
I teach a basic sailing course at Budd Lake, NJ thru a group called SEAS.
Our current fleet is made up of Aqua Finns and an American 14.6, with a few other boats for variety. We have had 2 14.6’s over the years. One of the reasons that we went with the 14’s is that American sail has beefed up the hulls of their boats where they normally get hit by students. (bow, sides) Also- for the same size boat they were a lot less expensive. And there was a spinnaker sail available.

The boat is definably designed for protected waters, but that said I have had it out in white caps and small craft conditions, and on the Hudson River.( well that day was a race, and the wind was less than the current in the opposite direction, so I was heading north and making progress south J ). The sizing of the spars and lines is sufficient for the size of the boat, but it may not be for your conditions. I have dismasted it, but I had brought a safety boat along side and then caught the port shroud as I pulled away. The boat will turtle, but that has not been a problem as the lake is much shallower that the height of the mast. Our sister chapter in Westchester, NY does put floats at the top of the masts. When we had to repair the centerboard our maintenance crew installed an access port on the port side of the trunk. When using the spinnaker remember that the pad eye on the mast that receives the spinnaker pole may not be at the correct elevation. It depends on the cut of the sail. It could use a j\iffy reef system, but ours did not come with it. I have used the rock detection function of the centerboard (not on purpose) but the center board release worked well when needed. Please note there are no attachment points for safety lines. This is a beamy boat and the jib fairleads are fixed. I do not normally get a tight beat with this boat. I can get the Finns to point higher. But then again our 14.6 sails are really blown out. The mast is easy to raise and lower, but it is easier to find the split rings and cotter pins that get dropped if you raise/lower your mast over flat ground, and not when it is in the water (been there…). When we took it out of the water in the fall we pulled it up over a roller and on to the grass. We needed 4 strong people. There is a drain plug center stern. If that cavity needs constant draining then there are hairline cracks (or larger). Check the spec hull weight against the actual weight. You will need a manual bilge pump and a scoop. The cockpit will hold rain water, etc. Spin sail, pump and scoops will fit in the front storage area. I will usually place 2 canoe paddles in the boat. If the wind dies 1 paddler on each side will get us back to the beach.

I can single hand this boat, assuming I do not need another body for movable ballast. What I will do is knot the 2 jib sheets so that I can always reach them. With 2 people it is good. With 3 people in the boat the 14 is faster than the Aqua Finns and I will have the helms person switch to the windward side as req’d. . With 4 people in the boat the Finns are faster, and it depends on the wind as to who moves. I have had 6 people on board in heavier winds and the boat is fun. Lighter winds with 6 people the boat does not move.

Dave down at American Sail does stand behind his products. I have met him several times at the various boats shows that he does on the East coast(Atlantic City and Annapolis ) and parts are still available.

Check to see if there are other 14’s in your area. Local support is really important.

Hillary

 

[EBarnacle]

Especially examine the standing rigging. The boat has been in use by relatively ignorant types [assume this in a rental fleet.] and has probably been worked hard. If it breezes up suddenly assume that you will want the extra strength of slightly heavier standing rigging. Once you are in unprotected water the ability to stay together is very important. I am Hillary's companion and agree that these are able boats. You have to keep up with the maintainence even in a fiberglass boat. Inspect the bilges regularly making sure you drain the hull. This will also keep you posted on the condition of the hull and its tightness.

In addition to wearing a life jacket, make it a point to wear the jacket for an hour or two before you purchase it. If it feels comfortable, you are more likely to wear it.

Eric

 

[themadscientist]

Great information! Thank you very much.
Fingers crossed; I will know by the end of the month.

I see there are roller furling jibs available for the boat and I am keen on adding one; thoughts?

 

[EBarnacle]

If you are interested in roller furling, make sure that you upgrade the headstay at least one size. You will be adding new loads to the stay and it can get embarassing if it goes away out on the water. Eric




If you have the standard jib on the boat you don't need roller furling. Just add a line to be used as a downhaul from the jib head, run down to the bow and then back to the cockpit. But if you want to go with the roller check with Dave re your conditions to see if he recomends upping the hardware and which hardware to upgrade (forestay down to fasteners) If you are considering it for reefing purposes then yes, and make sure the main can be reefed as well.
Also because the shrouds are aft of the mast (better for stresses) the jib lines are usually run outside. which does not give a tight beat. Hillary

 

[Dan H]

I have a 13' CHrysler Pirateer. I sail it on Lake Michigan close to shore also. I have a ton of fun in that little boat. It is a great way to learn to sail. However, before I every went onto the water I went to ASA sailing school.
I have dumped it and was able to climb back in. Adrenaline was running high the first time. Couldn't get back in the second time but I was so close to shore I walked the boat in.

Buy it and have fun with it. Use it for a teder for your next boat.
Oh yeah, whatever you pay for it you will spend exactly that much on it right away....mark my words.
Here's a photo of mine. Boat cost $125.00. After trailer, paint job, spare mast and sails I have $1000.00 invested.
http://members.csinet.net/dhapp/pirateer/Chrysler_Pirateer_Page_1.html

 

[themadscientist]

That's a very similar-looking craft.

So far, it appears interest in the boat is low. They have a lot of four and I am cautiously optimistic about my chances. The authorities have indicated I am ok with no operator's permit so I can get out on the water directly. Also, I am confirmed for my basic keelboat class in August! :dance: