Anyone Removed Headliner?

[braol]

I was contemplating putting up Douglas Fir tongue-and-groove wood planking on the "ceiling." I saw a nice Tartan 34c in which the owner did just the same thing. He painted it white, not stained, and it really gave the interior a classic look. Article here, with pics: http://www.tartan34library.com/Interior - Headliner/colligan-headliner_2.pdf

What I am wondering is what would happen if I removed only the overhead part of the headliner? Would the remaining portion of the headliner (around the portlights, etc...) then sag? I'm interested in taking down the existing plastic for several reasons: 1)aesthetics, 2)chance to REALLY find/end any deck leaks, 3)chance to reinforce the underside of deck beyond what the factory did, 4)add some foam insulation between new wood headliner and deck for added comfort/sound deadening, 5)easily run all my wiring for my overhead lights and mast electronics in the ceiling, 6)aesthetics, 7)aesthetics..... :dance:

Has anyone ever taken significant portions of the plastic headliner apart? I had thought that the remaining headliner could be reinforced from behind around the remaining edges with Epoxied-in marine grade plywood. The curious DIY'er inside me is also extremly curious to see just what is on the underside of the deck.

I saw tongue-and-groove wood at the hardware store in 1/4" thickness, 8' long pieces that would work nicely. The person that did the Tartan headliner made clever use of trim strips going athwartships to both give the ceiling a finished look as well as hide the screws holding it all together.

Trivia time: We all call the 'ceiling' in our boats the headliner. The floor is, of course, called the deck.....but the proper nautical term for the ceiling is the deckhead. The ceiling is a general term for the planking on the inside of the hull. I never knew this until I started researching this topic...and I've been in the Navy for 14 years! (For the record, our fiberglass boats have no ceiling, unless you've added some kind of decorative wood along the wallsnext to the hull...perhaps in the V-berth.) I thought this information was fun and might make me sound real salty around the boatyard!

 

[Jim Legere]

Trivia time: We all call the 'ceiling' in our boats the headliner. The floor is, of course, called the deck.....but the proper nautical term for the ceiling is the deckhead. The ceiling is a general term for the planking on the inside of the hull. I never knew this until I started researching this topic...and I've been in the Navy for 14 years! (For the record, our fiberglass boats have no ceiling, unless you've added some kind of decorative wood along the wallsnext to the hull...perhaps in the V-berth.) I thought this information was fun and might make me sound real salty around the boatyard!

It would not be 'trivial' to remove the headliner on my boat. In fact I believe it is somewhat structural. Not sure about the 27.

The ceiling was what covered the ribs of a wooden boat's interior - sort of planking for the inside. The "floor" is in fact the cabin sole and (in a wooden boat) rests on the floors, which are athwartship beams between the ribs that may also carry the external ballast via the keelbolts. The bunks you sit on in the main cabin are in fact settees in the saloon. Funny language this sport has...

 

[Alctel]

I can't offer any help, but would be really interested to see how you progress. I often daydream about removing parts of mine to throughbolt a new cleat in, or run conduit

 

[stollo770]

I have the same boat as you and I have been over every single inch of it. From what I understand, you plan to remove your entire ceiling (headliner) and replace it with some decorative wood thing. This a very, very bad idea.

The headliner on H27's is a large single mold connected structurally to the sides of the ship, and every major system in the cabin. The wooden room dividers are anchored to it, the cabin lights are anchored to it, wiring runs through it, your mast deck plugs are anchored to it, your mast bolts are anchored through it, your cabinets/storage areas are suspended from it, and so much more. It is an integral part of the ship and to remove it would result in the utter structural collapse of your boat. Do not do this. To get an idea of exactly how vast it is, crawl to the back of the 5th bed on the port side going to the stern and look back at the cabin. You'll see only a corner, but the corner is enough to get a sense of how huge, and interconnected the headliner is to everything. You'll see how it is one single piece connected to the sides, you'll see some of the wires running through it, and if you peer into the gap between it and the main hull you'll see that everything on the port side bolted to it. That gap is also another point of concern, because if you replace your headliner with wood, you'll need to mimic the gap perfectly to get all the other measurements to line up, and keep in mind that the gap changes with the curvature of the ship. Also, wood rots; fiber glass does not. Even if you got everything right you'll be replacing the sound structural system that has held your boat together for almost 40 years with a material that breaks down exponentially over time, especially at sea. Do not under any circumstances remove the headliner. Do not.

I do however, like your idea of a wooden headliner. Why not layer the wood over the existing fiber glass headliner? You'll keep your boat from structurally imploding and you'll get your classy wooden look. Plus when the wood inevitably rots you can just replace it with out your structure being compromised.

 

[kito]

I have the same boat as you and I have been over every single inch of it. From what I understand, you plan to remove your entire ceiling (headliner) and replace it with some decorative wood thing. This a very, very bad idea.

The headliner on H27's is a large single mold connected structurally to the sides of the ship, and every major system in the cabin. The wooden room dividers are anchored to it, the cabin lights are anchored to it, wiring runs through it, your mast deck plugs are anchored to it, your mast bolts are anchored through it, your cabinets/storage areas are suspended from it, and so much more. It is an integral part of the ship and to remove it would result in the utter structural collapse of your boat. Do not do this. To get an idea of exactly how vast it is, crawl to the back of the 5th bed on the port side going to the stern and look back at the cabin. You'll see only a corner, but the corner is enough to get a sense of how huge, and interconnected the headliner is to everything. You'll see how it is one single piece connected to the sides, you'll see some of the wires running through it, and if you peer into the gap between it and the main hull you'll see that everything on the port side bolted to it. That gap is also another point of concern, because if you replace your headliner with wood, you'll need to mimic the gap perfectly to get all the other measurements to line up, and keep in mind that the gap changes with the curvature of the ship. Also, wood rots; fiber glass does not. Even if you got everything right you'll be replacing the sound structural system that has held your boat together for almost 40 years with a material that breaks down exponentially over time, especially at sea. Do not under any circumstances remove the headliner. Do not.

I do however, like your idea of a wooden headliner. Why not layer the wood over the existing fiber glass headliner? You'll keep your boat from structurally imploding and you'll get your classy wooden look. Plus when the wood inevitably rots you can just replace it with out your structure being compromised.

Good post. Removing the headliner is not a good idea. I think attaching the wood to the center section of the headliner in the salon will get the wood look he wants. Just will lose some headroom is all.

 

[stollo770]

Good post. Removing the headliner is not a good idea. I think attaching the wood to the center section of the headliner in the salon will get the wood look he wants. Just will lose some headroom is all.

I agree, and depending on how thin the wood is, not much head room will be lost. The H27 has great head room in the cabin, and will certainty be able to accommodate a thin layer of wood.

 

[braol]

Just as I thought...

What everyone is saying is what my gut feeling was telling me. I figured that the headliner (aka deckhead...sort of) would not enjoy being carved-up like a turkey. I may still go through with the wood...albeit epoxied to the existing headliner. Heck, in the end it'd be just like installing one large backing plate if I ever install new deck fixtures in the future!
Questions: I assume that I might still be able to inject insulating foam into the area between the headliner and the deck? One of the aspects I had thought of as an advantage, had cutting away the existing headliner been a viable option, would have been the chance to put in some serious insulation. Injectable foam would work...but does anybody know just what it looks like above the headliner? Is it just a sheet of solid plywood core between fiberglass layers or are there a bunch of longitudinal stringers placed inside? I'm afraid that any attempt to install insulation would yield spotty results at best.
I'm curious how the Tartan owner in the referenced article was able to cut away his headliner without any massive structural failure? The guy that did the project is one of the elder statesmen of the Tartan 34c Owner's Association, not some yahoo with a saw. I think I might try to contact the guy to find out more. Stay tuned...

 

[sandpiper10471]

I am not so sure the liner is structural to the deck. On the H33 there is about a 1 inch gap over most of the area. The 37C gap is about the thickness of the wires going to the overhead lights. The liner is bonded at all deck openings - hatches, companionway, mast step and bulkheads, but seems to just "hang" at the outboard edges beneath the side decks. Definitely not bonded around the portlights. As most of the liner "floats", I can see no reason for not doing judicial surgery, as long as one pays attention to the bonded sections. One would think the liner might be structurally attached to thwartship stringers or ribs but so far I have seen no evidence of such.
Sure would be nice to be able to chase down all those leaks! Unfortunately I am unable to comment on the H27, having never owned one or worked on one. But I do suspect the Cherubini designs all followed similar engineering practices.