Practical Sailor had a write up a few years ago on Solomon Technologies electric engine for the marine market. There are also several other suppliers. Does anyone have experiecne with these engines?
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check website
If you check out their website at www.solomontechnologies.com it seems they are moving ahead - Lagoon has a cat equipped with their system
If you check out their website at www.solomontechnologies.com it seems they are moving ahead - Lagoon has a cat equipped with their system
Talk to them.
Saw them at Annapolis and had a nice discussion. They show a beautiful installation in a custom boat, so clean and quiet. Excellent solution for daysailing, not so good for cruising(in my opinion). For cruising you would be limited to boat size/weight due to horsepower. And you would require a very large(heavy) battery bank. The motor would save a little room compared to the 2QM20 on my H37C. The batteries would take up much more than was saved. Then I would have to spend big $$$ on a charging system. But I really like the environmental aspects and would consider it for a daysailer.
Saw them at Annapolis and had a nice discussion. They show a beautiful installation in a custom boat, so clean and quiet. Excellent solution for daysailing, not so good for cruising(in my opinion). For cruising you would be limited to boat size/weight due to horsepower. And you would require a very large(heavy) battery bank. The motor would save a little room compared to the 2QM20 on my H37C. The batteries would take up much more than was saved. Then I would have to spend big $$$ on a charging system. But I really like the environmental aspects and would consider it for a daysailer.
Not Spectacular
The motor that they bench tested developed 20HP. It used 90A at 240V or 21,600W. 746W equal one HP. Therefore with 100% efficient motor they would have used 14,920W. The efficiency was 69%. Not spectacular for an electric motor. A fair size marine battery will hold about 1200W hours. As a rough order of magnitude, it will take about 18 of these batteries to run it an hour. How much is that, a thousand pounds of batteries. I worked for Eagle Picher many years ago. They built an electric powered boat. It was very fast, but for a very short distance. Even the environmentally friendly argument is weak, unless some huge solar panels or wind vanes are used to charge the batteries. Not many batteries are very environmentally friendly in the manufacturing or disposal process. And then there is the problem of some power plant somewhere using fossil fuels to generate the power. I have a small trolling motor that I run just for the fun of it and in an emergency. I also have solar panels. The trolling motor will push my Mac 23 at about 3 knots and the battery should last a little over three hours.
The motor that they bench tested developed 20HP. It used 90A at 240V or 21,600W. 746W equal one HP. Therefore with 100% efficient motor they would have used 14,920W. The efficiency was 69%. Not spectacular for an electric motor. A fair size marine battery will hold about 1200W hours. As a rough order of magnitude, it will take about 18 of these batteries to run it an hour. How much is that, a thousand pounds of batteries. I worked for Eagle Picher many years ago. They built an electric powered boat. It was very fast, but for a very short distance. Even the environmentally friendly argument is weak, unless some huge solar panels or wind vanes are used to charge the batteries. Not many batteries are very environmentally friendly in the manufacturing or disposal process. And then there is the problem of some power plant somewhere using fossil fuels to generate the power. I have a small trolling motor that I run just for the fun of it and in an emergency. I also have solar panels. The trolling motor will push my Mac 23 at about 3 knots and the battery should last a little over three hours.
Ed, Make the keel your batteries
With a whole new redesign and paradigm shift its possible. My question is....how do you replace so much energy lost. I think somewhere I saw a retrofitted Catalina 42 that was Hydrogen powered (?)....which charged batteries which ran an electric engine. Though getting and re-supplying hydrogen for power would be a hassle, never heard nor seen of a hydrogen filling station.......easier to have diesel aboard.........
With a whole new redesign and paradigm shift its possible. My question is....how do you replace so much energy lost. I think somewhere I saw a retrofitted Catalina 42 that was Hydrogen powered (?)....which charged batteries which ran an electric engine. Though getting and re-supplying hydrogen for power would be a hassle, never heard nor seen of a hydrogen filling station.......easier to have diesel aboard.........
What I Would Like to See
Something that looks like a hybrid electric outboard. Sort of a cross between a trolling motor and one of those small Honda generators. Using a quiet four cycle engine it powers the electric motor that drives the prop. When you’re not trying to go anywhere that same generator can power your battery charger, lights TV whatever you have onboard. What would really be cool is if it put out enough juice to run the air conditioner.
Something that looks like a hybrid electric outboard. Sort of a cross between a trolling motor and one of those small Honda generators. Using a quiet four cycle engine it powers the electric motor that drives the prop. When you’re not trying to go anywhere that same generator can power your battery charger, lights TV whatever you have onboard. What would really be cool is if it put out enough juice to run the air conditioner.
Electric boat
This boat is in Channel Islands/Ventura Ca he is a member of the sailing club we charter our 380 with Andy Hansom Vanishing Point http://www.haveblue.com/ http://www.marinasailing.com
This boat is in Channel Islands/Ventura Ca he is a member of the sailing club we charter our 380 with Andy Hansom Vanishing Point http://www.haveblue.com/ http://www.marinasailing.com
HaveBlue
Something not noted yet, the motor is a motor/generator. While sailing it can recharge the battery bank. I've heard something like 6:1 (sailing:motoring) is possible because of the losses. Because of the amount of energy required solar and wind aren't great sources to recharge. Check out www.haveblue.com for one effort to become completely self sufficient with respect to energy while using electric drive.
Something not noted yet, the motor is a motor/generator. While sailing it can recharge the battery bank. I've heard something like 6:1 (sailing:motoring) is possible because of the losses. Because of the amount of energy required solar and wind aren't great sources to recharge. Check out www.haveblue.com for one effort to become completely self sufficient with respect to energy while using electric drive.
Yea, Scott, But....
...how would you like dragging a prop big enough to add meaningful amps. Would kinda have a negative sailing effect, huh? BTW, I went aboard that Cat 42. Very interesting concept. The ultimate goal is to run a fuel cell making hydrogen from sea water with bunches of fresh water as a byproduct. Rick D.
...how would you like dragging a prop big enough to add meaningful amps. Would kinda have a negative sailing effect, huh? BTW, I went aboard that Cat 42. Very interesting concept. The ultimate goal is to run a fuel cell making hydrogen from sea water with bunches of fresh water as a byproduct. Rick D.
electric HP and desiel HP are not the same
Everyone seems to be assuming that HP is HP. The way horse power is calculated for an electric engine is different (a different formula) than for desiel. And so far, no one who replied, seems to have actual experience. And on the subject of power. Most of the engines run at 150 VDC (or so). High voltage, low amperage for a give watt of work. Solomon says that 3 hours of motoring is easily achieved from a reasonble battery. And solomon is only the most aggressive in the marine industry. There are other options.
Everyone seems to be assuming that HP is HP. The way horse power is calculated for an electric engine is different (a different formula) than for desiel. And so far, no one who replied, seems to have actual experience. And on the subject of power. Most of the engines run at 150 VDC (or so). High voltage, low amperage for a give watt of work. Solomon says that 3 hours of motoring is easily achieved from a reasonble battery. And solomon is only the most aggressive in the marine industry. There are other options.
Rick D. Where do you get a "Fuel Cell"
Even better question is "What is a Fuel Cell". Does it have to be produced? How much energy is expended to make one? Maybe its still more efficient to supply fuel directly to the boat than have to create all those steps and all the inherit loss of efficiency. (Unless all the power to make fuel cells was from nuclear and hydro-electric power plants)
Even better question is "What is a Fuel Cell". Does it have to be produced? How much energy is expended to make one? Maybe its still more efficient to supply fuel directly to the boat than have to create all those steps and all the inherit loss of efficiency. (Unless all the power to make fuel cells was from nuclear and hydro-electric power plants)
Small battery - big moter?
Why not use a smaller battery, perhaps 1 hour of run time and a large, perhaps the same hp as needed for conventional propulsion, genset moter? For most of our trips in and out of the slip we use less than 1 hour of run time. Thus we could run the moter when we want it. It would be much better for the motor because it always will run at max effeciency rpm. None of the idling/glazing problems every one talks about. Geoff
Why not use a smaller battery, perhaps 1 hour of run time and a large, perhaps the same hp as needed for conventional propulsion, genset moter? For most of our trips in and out of the slip we use less than 1 hour of run time. Thus we could run the moter when we want it. It would be much better for the motor because it always will run at max effeciency rpm. None of the idling/glazing problems every one talks about. Geoff
Tugs and Trains
Most of the Tugs and Trains in the U.S. are deisel powered .... but ... the deisels run a gen. that supplys power to the wheels or props... so . there much be some good logic to this .... lets do some research and see what we come up with !
Most of the Tugs and Trains in the U.S. are deisel powered .... but ... the deisels run a gen. that supplys power to the wheels or props... so . there much be some good logic to this .... lets do some research and see what we come up with !
HP is HP
I believe they are calculated the same. That is the problem. They are calculated, actually, measured, at the output shaft of the motor or engine. An electric motor is pretty much a direct drive and there are little further losses. I diesel or OB all measure their HP at the same point, but there are further losses before it gets to the prop. An electric motor will have more useful HP than a diesel engine or OB. This is based on my memory from over forty years ago, so it could be wrong. Regardless, for any reasonable size electric motor, it takes a lot of battery weight to make it useful. I happen to have some experience with Nickel Hydrogen batteries. They are a close cousins to fuel cells. In fact a fuel cell is pretty much a battery in which you can add active material or fuel as opposed to being rechargable. The chemical reaction or oxidation of the fuel produces current just like batteries. Fuel cells are not disposable and at the moment they are extremely expensive.
I believe they are calculated the same. That is the problem. They are calculated, actually, measured, at the output shaft of the motor or engine. An electric motor is pretty much a direct drive and there are little further losses. I diesel or OB all measure their HP at the same point, but there are further losses before it gets to the prop. An electric motor will have more useful HP than a diesel engine or OB. This is based on my memory from over forty years ago, so it could be wrong. Regardless, for any reasonable size electric motor, it takes a lot of battery weight to make it useful. I happen to have some experience with Nickel Hydrogen batteries. They are a close cousins to fuel cells. In fact a fuel cell is pretty much a battery in which you can add active material or fuel as opposed to being rechargable. The chemical reaction or oxidation of the fuel produces current just like batteries. Fuel cells are not disposable and at the moment they are extremely expensive.
Diesel "boats," and such...
U.S and other nations' submarines were all diesel-electric up until nulear power - and theose are electric, too! Initially, the "diesel boats" had a transmission that allowed running electric only, for submerged use, running diesel only, for surface or snorkel depth, and battery charging. Later in WWII subs with electric drive only emerged, and hte engines were only used for running generators. I like this idea, since the engine would always run most efficiently under 80% or more load, which is actually better for diesels. And, you can pick up and motor off quickly and silently. Vetus are working on electric drives and hybrid drives - see link. jv
U.S and other nations' submarines were all diesel-electric up until nulear power - and theose are electric, too! Initially, the "diesel boats" had a transmission that allowed running electric only, for submerged use, running diesel only, for surface or snorkel depth, and battery charging. Later in WWII subs with electric drive only emerged, and hte engines were only used for running generators. I like this idea, since the engine would always run most efficiently under 80% or more load, which is actually better for diesels. And, you can pick up and motor off quickly and silently. Vetus are working on electric drives and hybrid drives - see link. jv
electric outboards
take a look at the link below ..... they sell electric outboard engines .... not alot of power for the weight of the units but its a start.
take a look at the link below ..... they sell electric outboard engines .... not alot of power for the weight of the units but its a start.
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