Any info on Revatek alternator regulators?

dlochner · Dec 19, 2024

tfox2069 said:
Anyone have any experience with/knowledge of Revatek alternator regulators? Saw them at the Annapolis Boat Show. Love that the ability to program via your phone over Bluetooth or WiFi. Claims its charging regime reduces charging time by 20-35%.

Revatek | Alternator regulators

Shop offering the world's most advanced alternator regulator for marine and RV battery charging. Works with lithium-ion LiFePO4 and lead acid batteries. For boats, yachts and recreational vehicles. Supports NMEA 2000, NMEA 2K, RV-C, 12-48 volts and CANBUS protocols for easy integration and...

revatek.com

This is the first I have heard of Revatek, however, it appears to be one of the new generation of external regulators that use amperage instead of voltage to set the field voltage. Its competition is Wakespeed and Arco Zeus.

For those who have not been following the external regulator evolution, in the past 5 or 6 years it has rapidly evolve. Older regulators, like the Balmar ARS-5, 614, and 618 used charging voltage to control the field current which worked well for lead acid batteries because of the charge acceptance rates and voltage are strongly related to the State of Charge (SOC). However, in the world of LiFePO4 the charge acceptance rate is pretty flat and the relationship between SOC and charge acceptance is pretty weak; LFP batteries have a very flat charge profile. Using amperage, essentially counting the amps put into the battery while charging is a better method for LFP batteries.

Wakespeed was the first to market with the new generation of regulators, it come on the market around 2021 with several updates since then. Last year 2023, the Arco Zeus came to market and now the Revatek. It is too soon to tell which regulator is "best" although the current darling of the cutting edge folks seems to be Zeus. Who knows where Revatex will land.

If considering one, it would be wise to remember early adopters of new technology are often considered to be on the bleeding edge of technology for good reason. Regardless of how good the product is and how thorough the testing, the v1.x products inevitable reveal new issues once released to the market. Last winter a friend installed a Zeus right after it was released and had several very expensive problems. Eventually the company stepped up and the problems were resolved and he is now quite satisfied with the Zeus.

A project I am working on now will use a Zeus regulator and an Arco high output regulator.

ARCO Zeus Bluetooth Alternator Regulator | Bluetooth Regulator

Discover the ARCO Zeus Bluetooth Alternator Regulator—your ultimate voltage regulator for efficient battery management and enhanced energy performance!

arcomarine.com

Wakespeed Charge Smarter - Wakespeed

Intelligent Engine-BasedCharge Control Wakespeed is leading the charge in RV, marine, and commercial transportation applications. Offering smart DC charge control systems, Wakespeed’s advanced alternator regulator, the WS500, is the first of its kind and delivers unsurpassed quality and...

www.wakespeed.com

colemj · Dec 20, 2024

dlochner said:
Older regulators, like the Balmar ARS-5, 614, and 618 used charging voltage to control the field current which worked well for lead acid batteries because of the charge acceptance rates and voltage are strongly related to the State of Charge (SOC). However, in the world of LiFePO4 the charge acceptance rate is pretty flat and the relationship between SOC and charge acceptance is pretty weak; LFP batteries have a very flat charge profile. Using amperage, essentially counting the amps put into the battery while charging is a better method for LFP batteries.

I agree that this current/voltage difference is a step forward, but I really don't see how it matters that much. IMO, the ability to communicate with other parts of the electrical system, and the ability to better regulate output based on variables like engine load or alternator temperature, etc, are the more compelling features.

For example, we have an ARCO Zeus 275A alternator controlled by a Balmar 614 charging a lithium bank. Lithium's flat charging profile means the alternator runs full-out until the batteries are fully charged, then shuts down. This always happens at the same time the battery monitor says all of the coulombs have been replaced - so having the alternator control based on coulomb counting at this point is no different in practice.

However, the Balmar regulator is ham-handed at controlling the alternator and engine environment. That 275A alternator cannot run full-out without glowing cherry-red. So this means I have to set the Balmar to limit the field current overall, while also relying on its temp sensor to cut the output in half if it starts to overheat. All of this means it is not controlling the alternator efficiently, and it is leaving current on the table when it doesn't need to because it only allows for gross adjustments.

And it knows nothing about the engine load. While this would never be an issue on our engines, an alternator this size on a smaller engine may bog it down too much when that load is needed for propulsion. The newer regulators know this and roll back the alternator output proportionally when more power is needed for propulsion.

Mark

mermike · Dec 20, 2024

Mark - while the Arco Zeus can use a user-defined output curve based on RPM, I'm unaware of any dynamic engine load inputs on either the Zeus or Wakespeed. Can you expand on that?

colemj · Dec 21, 2024

mermike said:
Mark - while the Arco Zeus can use a user-defined output curve based on RPM, I'm unaware of any dynamic engine load inputs on either the Zeus or Wakespeed. Can you expand on that?

I don't have direct experience with them and was only going by the marketing material. This is probably fraught with truth shading, like all marketing. It is also possibly a misunderstanding on my part.

Zeus:
"Additionally, Zeus can manage the engine's power, allowing you to configure the alternator’s power take-off, optimizing energy creation to quickly replenish your battery bank."

Revatek

Boost Mode: Harnesses the full power of the alternator to charge the batteries when the Altion senses that the engine has excess power available across the full RPM range.

Wakespeed doesn't make any similar claims.

Mark

Hayden Watson · Dec 21, 2024

mermike said:
Mark - while the Arco Zeus can use a user-defined output curve based on RPM, I'm unaware of any dynamic engine load inputs on either the Zeus or Wakespeed. Can you expand on that?

On the Zeus, if you have an engine that has common rail ECM control, the computer calculates the % of power output. The Zeus can access that info and adjust the field to limit %power to whatever level you set. If you have a simple mechanical engine like my Universal, you need to set the output based on RPM. I am not sure what the new Revatek does. They seem to be about the same price so this spring I will get the Zeus and let others Beta test the Revatek.

Hayden Watson · Dec 21, 2024

colemj said:
...
Wakespeed doesn't make any similar claims.

Mark

As far as I am aware, the Wakespeed does not monitor the ECU for power output like the others do. It does have a "White Space" parameter that lets you adjust the output based on RPM like the Zeus.

grevelle · Jan 1, 2025

I'm the founder of Revatek - happy to answer any questions about alternator regulators in general or what we're up to.

grevelle · Jan 1, 2025

Johnb said:
There is a spelling error on your website.

View attachment 229192

Thanks for pointing out the error, all fixed.

Hayden Watson · Jan 1, 2025

grevelle said:
I'm the founder of Revatek - happy to answer any questions about alternator regulators in general or what we're up to.

I have a quick one. Given that your price appears to be the same as the Zeus, what does it do that the Zeus does not? I did not see on your website anything about adjusting the power output of the alternator based on engine rpm. My old M25XP is a simple mechanical engine with not CAN or any other type of ECU output. Given that I am running a 250A alternator on a 23-hp engine, I need the ability to limit the output based on engine speed to ensure that enough power is left to turn the prop.

grevelle · Jan 2, 2025

The products in the market all have unique benefits, and there are some key differences that can significantly impact performance depending on your application. We've highlighted many of the features and differentiators of the Altion on our product detail page, if you really want to dive deep that's a good place to start. The same goes for others in the market.

To your specific question, many newer regulators including the Altion allow the user to set the maximum output of the alternator based on engine RPM. Some also incorporate features like boost or generator modes, which allow the user to lift these limits when they're trying to mimic a generator. The Altion offers an automatic boost mode that activates when it senses that the user is trying to charge rather than maneuver. This can be a great way to maximize charging speed and efficiency, but it's important to consider whether enabling this feature aligns with your specific needs and charging system. If available, CAN Bus can improve precision further by incorporating engine information directly.

And of course, efficiency is always a factor. Regulators utilizing synchronous buck converters generally offer better efficiency compared to those with older asynchronous technology. Remember those old power bricks that used to get hot, while new ones stay cool? A major difference between them is synchronous technology. While the engineering is more challenging, this results in less wasted energy and cooler operation, which can be particularly beneficial in demanding applications. Because we felt the extra R&D was worth the effort, we made the Altion synchronous.

I think these features are becoming increasingly important in modern regulators, and not all models offer them.

Hayden Watson · Jan 2, 2025

grevelle said:
...The Altion offers an automatic boost mode that activates when it senses that the user is trying to charge rather than maneuver. This can be a great way to maximize charging speed and efficiency, but it's important to consider whether enabling this feature aligns with your specific needs and charging system. If available, CAN Bus can improve precision further by incorporating engine information directly.

And of course, efficiency is always a factor. Regulators utilizing synchronous buck converters generally offer better efficiency compared to those with older asynchronous technology. Remember those old power bricks that used to get hot, while new ones stay cool? A major difference between them is synchronous technology. While the engineering is more challenging, this results in less wasted energy and cooler operation, which can be particularly beneficial in demanding applications. Because we felt the extra R&D was worth the effort, we made the Altion synchronous.

I think these features are becoming increasingly important in modern regulators, and not all models offer them.

From reading your web site, it appears that the boost feature is activated when the regulator senses that the rpms are not changing [which is just about 100% of the time on an engine which is controlled by a governor controlled injections pump linked to a non-self-returning speed control. That feature would not be effective on many boats.

I am not sure what you mean by "synchronous ...". On the Zeus and WS500 the field is controlled by PWM controllers which do not create any significant amount of heat and provide for a full range of power output. The PWM control to me says that the output is synchronized to the requirements of the battery within the limits for temp, max current, max voltage, etc.

It is on my spring shopping list to buy a Zeus and what I am looking for is any reasons to go with a more expensive startup rather than the more mature and field proven predecessor.

I like to by new and shiny toys but want to make sure that the new and shiny is better, especially if it costs more.

grevelle · Jan 2, 2025

I appreciate your question.

The idea of automatic boost mode is for users to be able to charge at full power at relatively low RPM when they're using the engine strictly to charge. And then when maneuvering the boat, to derate the output per the RPM curve to devote more power to propulsion. We have found it to be very effective, but to your point every boat is different and it may not be right for your specific setup. Given your large alternator relative to your engine, in your case it probably makes sense to disable this feature and stick with the RPM-based charge curve all the time.

Synchronous vs asynchronous gets into to circuit design and it's pretty technical. All modern regulators use PWM control to govern the field current, but how the PWM is implemented can differ, with implications for efficiency. If you're curious about the differences, please message me privately and I will share a youtube video about it. It's probably deeper than most people want to go.

As mentioned above, fully outfitted pricing is fairly similar across the similarly positioned products, so I think it's more about feature preferences, and all products in the category have their merits. We stand by our products and will support them with ongoing feature updates in the years ahead so they're always up-to-date as power systems evolve. I'd recommend you go with the product you are most excited about. For those who prefer to wait until products are in market for a while, we're not the right fit right now, but hope to be in a few months.

colemj · Jan 3, 2025

I'm also confused about this buck converter and efficiency issue. We have Balmar 614 regulators - probably the oldest technology and least advanced external regulator still on the market. It does not get hot at all driving our 275A alternator at full output. I don't know how much power it uses to do so, nor how efficient it is, but for sure that power/inefficiency is such a small percent of the alternator output to be meaningless. What are we talking about here - one or two amp difference between an efficient regulator and an inefficient one? It can't be much because there is little heat produced.

Mark

grevelle · Jan 3, 2025

Hi Mark - The efficiency improvement is ~5-8% of the field amps, so about 5 watts savings for a typical case.

colemj · Jan 4, 2025

Thanks. I'm all about design efficiency in principle, but that represents just 0.1% of my alternator output. In other words, I have to run my alternator an additional 6 seconds every hour to make up that inefficiency.

Mark