I have an older model 26 and am just getting to the point of having to add VHF. My question is how have other owners run the antenna wiring throught the cabin roof and over to the radio? Assuming that the radio is mounted near the breaker box. The other wiring from the mast lights run between the cabin top and inner liner. Is there any way to run the wiring in that area? Or do you just have to come through the inner liner and run it down behind the cushoins? When I took the cabin light down near the mast there was only a small hole that it would be difficult to get a snake into. Are there better places to mount the antenna other than on the mast head? I will only be on the great lakes. With the wind vane at the top of the mast is there and extension that can be bought for the vain to extend it away from the antenna? Looking for some ideas before I try.
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Fish from top
Ken, When I did my installation I drilled a large hole (maybe 3/4") in the cabin top in which I installed a connector I bought at Radio Shack. I then removed the starboard side winch access cover from below and ran a fish tape from the hole I drilled to the winch. This was a real pain but from that point it was easy to feed the rest of the way. The connector I bought was a panel connector made to be installed on the back of a radio. On the back side the coax is soldered, then there are 4 screws to attach it to the deck. You can then put a PL259 plug on the cable coming down the mast so you have an easy disconnect point when trailering. As for standoffs at the mast head, check the photo forum, there was a picture in there of a bracket fabricated for just this purpose. Good luck, Jim
Ken, When I did my installation I drilled a large hole (maybe 3/4") in the cabin top in which I installed a connector I bought at Radio Shack. I then removed the starboard side winch access cover from below and ran a fish tape from the hole I drilled to the winch. This was a real pain but from that point it was easy to feed the rest of the way. The connector I bought was a panel connector made to be installed on the back of a radio. On the back side the coax is soldered, then there are 4 screws to attach it to the deck. You can then put a PL259 plug on the cable coming down the mast so you have an easy disconnect point when trailering. As for standoffs at the mast head, check the photo forum, there was a picture in there of a bracket fabricated for just this purpose. Good luck, Jim
Fish from Top
Ken, I did almost the same thing that Jim describes in his response, except I fished it from the hole in the deck to the port-side winch. I don't really think it makes a difference which side you go to, and it is a pain, but it makes for a very neat job when you're done. Also, I wound up mounting the VHF right above the second step in the companionway, up against the underside of the threshold above, then hung the microphone on the teak wall of the head, in easy reach of the cockpit. I thought that actually mounting the radio against the head wall didn't look as neat.
Ken, I did almost the same thing that Jim describes in his response, except I fished it from the hole in the deck to the port-side winch. I don't really think it makes a difference which side you go to, and it is a pain, but it makes for a very neat job when you're done. Also, I wound up mounting the VHF right above the second step in the companionway, up against the underside of the threshold above, then hung the microphone on the teak wall of the head, in easy reach of the cockpit. I thought that actually mounting the radio against the head wall didn't look as neat.
Great Ideas!
Rob - Jim I was afraid you were going to say to go ahead with it and that fishing the wire might be the hardest part. I appreciate the second opinions. However, it raises another question. Did you guys mount the through deck part next to the mast light connector or did you go aft of it? I like the idea of mounting the radio under the cockpit and the mike would still be close at hand. Thanks again!
Rob - Jim I was afraid you were going to say to go ahead with it and that fishing the wire might be the hardest part. I appreciate the second opinions. However, it raises another question. Did you guys mount the through deck part next to the mast light connector or did you go aft of it? I like the idea of mounting the radio under the cockpit and the mike would still be close at hand. Thanks again!
Where to drill
I put the hole right next to the masthead light hole (few inches to starboard. I figured I already had to be careful of that area anyway. No sense in putting a new obstruction in a new area. Be careful not to put it centerline, or when you lower your mast, it might crush the plug on the way down. Also, I forgot you asked about antennas and where to mount. I bought a Metz model (sold in West Marine) that mounts to the side of the mast. I put it maybe 4" down from the top against the port side of the mast. This way, it didn't interfere with the masthead light or windex or sails or anything. Hope that helps
I put the hole right next to the masthead light hole (few inches to starboard. I figured I already had to be careful of that area anyway. No sense in putting a new obstruction in a new area. Be careful not to put it centerline, or when you lower your mast, it might crush the plug on the way down. Also, I forgot you asked about antennas and where to mount. I bought a Metz model (sold in West Marine) that mounts to the side of the mast. I put it maybe 4" down from the top against the port side of the mast. This way, it didn't interfere with the masthead light or windex or sails or anything. Hope that helps
Another Windex idea
I didn't mention in my previous post but if you don't already have a Windex, I bought a Davis unit that uses the antenna for the pivot. The body has a hole through it which slides down the whip, the indicator tabs a fitted under the antenna base. It works well and eliminates any mounting problems. Jim
I didn't mention in my previous post but if you don't already have a Windex, I bought a Davis unit that uses the antenna for the pivot. The body has a hole through it which slides down the whip, the indicator tabs a fitted under the antenna base. It works well and eliminates any mounting problems. Jim
VHF location and mounting idea
Please see the link, below. The more connectors you put in the VHF antenna feed, the more signal loss that will be experienced. The method shown in the link has connectors only at the antenna and back of the radio. The entire cable and connector are fed through deck for connection. To facilitate that and minimize length of antenna cable, the VHF was mounted under the mast base, above the dining table. Fair winds, Tom
Please see the link, below. The more connectors you put in the VHF antenna feed, the more signal loss that will be experienced. The method shown in the link has connectors only at the antenna and back of the radio. The entire cable and connector are fed through deck for connection. To facilitate that and minimize length of antenna cable, the VHF was mounted under the mast base, above the dining table. Fair winds, Tom
Another mast mounted antenna idea.
I did a photo project on a mast mounted antenna on my 260, (see the link below). Yes each connector adds a little resistance, but having a quick disconnect at the mast base, that is water tight makes rigging much easier. The windex mount was fabricated out of a short piece of aluminum "L" bracket with a hacksaw and file in about 20 minutes. The mast top is the best mounting location because the extra height gives a lot more line of sight reach for your VHF signel. Brigg
I did a photo project on a mast mounted antenna on my 260, (see the link below). Yes each connector adds a little resistance, but having a quick disconnect at the mast base, that is water tight makes rigging much easier. The windex mount was fabricated out of a short piece of aluminum "L" bracket with a hacksaw and file in about 20 minutes. The mast top is the best mounting location because the extra height gives a lot more line of sight reach for your VHF signel. Brigg
Is mast mount needed?
We have our VHF radio mounted under the helm seat with the antenna mounted on the stern rail. I guess the antenna is about 4' long. Had a long discussion with a radio expert and his opinion is that the little extra gain you get by having the antenna at the mast is lost in the length of the cable needed. We sail on the South coast of Western Australia and we have a radio range of 95 mile. We communicate with this sea rescue base on a regular basis and have "never" had a problem. Do not think we need much more than this unless we were heading well off shore.
We have our VHF radio mounted under the helm seat with the antenna mounted on the stern rail. I guess the antenna is about 4' long. Had a long discussion with a radio expert and his opinion is that the little extra gain you get by having the antenna at the mast is lost in the length of the cable needed. We sail on the South coast of Western Australia and we have a radio range of 95 mile. We communicate with this sea rescue base on a regular basis and have "never" had a problem. Do not think we need much more than this unless we were heading well off shore.
Interesting
Interesting idea, Mark. I've always heard that you need a mast mount to get more than 10 mile range. I sure like the idea of avoiding the hassle of a mast mount antennae. Any radio experts out there willing to weigh in?
Interesting idea, Mark. I've always heard that you need a mast mount to get more than 10 mile range. I sure like the idea of avoiding the hassle of a mast mount antennae. Any radio experts out there willing to weigh in?
Radio type
Howdy folks Our VHF radio is an Australian made unit however it is the same VHF type that you all have. "However" Since buying this VHF I have seen that the radios that you guys use, I think made in the US, are much much better than ours. Being pretty well water proof etc and the quality of and ease of use leaves ours light years behind. But to answer the question about expert opinion the bloke I spoke to, at length, is a very highly qualified marine radio engineer who operates a medium size business down here doing both private and goverment work. But at the end of the day with the radio mounted under the hinged helm seat with only about 3' of cable to the antenna means a great range. And further more it means maintainance is easy!
Howdy folks Our VHF radio is an Australian made unit however it is the same VHF type that you all have. "However" Since buying this VHF I have seen that the radios that you guys use, I think made in the US, are much much better than ours. Being pretty well water proof etc and the quality of and ease of use leaves ours light years behind. But to answer the question about expert opinion the bloke I spoke to, at length, is a very highly qualified marine radio engineer who operates a medium size business down here doing both private and goverment work. But at the end of the day with the radio mounted under the hinged helm seat with only about 3' of cable to the antenna means a great range. And further more it means maintainance is easy!
VHF is line of sight
Don't want to disagree with anybody, but everything I've read or heard, as a radio electronics technician in the Air Force, said VHF (Very High Frequency)and UHF (Ultra High Frequency, like TV) are line of sight. You might occasionally get a skip or bounce off the ionisphere, but typically from about 10 feet off the water, (the average height of your head while standing on the deck) the visual and signal horizon is about 10 miles away. With lower frequencies you get longer range. At Clark Air Base in the Philippines there was an antenna about a mile in diameter that we used to communicate with submarines around the world, it was Ultra Low Frequency. Yes you do lose some signal strength with a longer antenna. That's why you should use the best antenna wire you can get. However the added 30 or 40 foot of height will put your signal out another 20 miles or so. It also makes a difference how many watts of power you are broadcasting and how sensative is the receiving antenna. Typically Government installations have the best equipment, the strongest signal, the tallest antenna tower (a hundred feet or so), and the most sensative receivers. That's what our taxes are paying for, right!! My little 20 watt radio needs all the help it can get. Do a little on-line research under the topic VHF. Here is a link to the Shakespeare-marine antenna web site with range information. You'll note, higher is better. Brigg
Don't want to disagree with anybody, but everything I've read or heard, as a radio electronics technician in the Air Force, said VHF (Very High Frequency)and UHF (Ultra High Frequency, like TV) are line of sight. You might occasionally get a skip or bounce off the ionisphere, but typically from about 10 feet off the water, (the average height of your head while standing on the deck) the visual and signal horizon is about 10 miles away. With lower frequencies you get longer range. At Clark Air Base in the Philippines there was an antenna about a mile in diameter that we used to communicate with submarines around the world, it was Ultra Low Frequency. Yes you do lose some signal strength with a longer antenna. That's why you should use the best antenna wire you can get. However the added 30 or 40 foot of height will put your signal out another 20 miles or so. It also makes a difference how many watts of power you are broadcasting and how sensative is the receiving antenna. Typically Government installations have the best equipment, the strongest signal, the tallest antenna tower (a hundred feet or so), and the most sensative receivers. That's what our taxes are paying for, right!! My little 20 watt radio needs all the help it can get. Do a little on-line research under the topic VHF. Here is a link to the Shakespeare-marine antenna web site with range information. You'll note, higher is better. Brigg
VHf is line of site but ...
VHF is line of sight but it is line of site from antenna to antenna. If one is mounted a few feet above the water and the other is a fixed tower hundreds of feet tall the line of sight can be a quite a long range. In this case mounting the boats antenna higher may not make that much of a difference. On the other hand, two boats with low mounted antenna's would not get anywhere near the same range. You could have good communication with a tall shore station but be unable to reach another boat halfway between you and the shore station. Another thing with a shore station is that the antenna being used may not be anywhere near the station you are talking too. The gain of your antenna makes a major difference too. A high gain antenna can increase range when the boat is flat but lose contact completely as it heels, even at fairly short distances. A lower gain antenna is much more forgiving but has less maximum range. The reason that extremely low frequency radio waves are used to communicate with submarines is so they can communicate below the water. Electromagnetic waves do not penetrate very far into water. Light penetrates only a short distance into the water. The depth of penetration is directly related to wavelength. The lower the frequency, the longer the wavelength. The longer the wavelength the farther it can propogate through the water. The disadvantage to low frequency is that bandwidth (the rate at which information can be sent) is dependent upon the frequency. The lower the frequency the slower the rate. Extremely low frequencies send date extremely slowly. Another disadvantage is that the antenna length must be long enough to generate a standing wave in order to broadcast. In high frequencies like VHF a few feet is all it takes. For the Navy's ELF (Extremely Low Frequency) installation in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, the antenna has to be MILES long in order to broadcast. It is built horizontally along the ground because it is too tall to stand up. Because of it's low frequency however it can penetrate the ground. I'm not a radio expert but my background is electrical engineering. I hope this helps. Thanks Brian
VHF is line of sight but it is line of site from antenna to antenna. If one is mounted a few feet above the water and the other is a fixed tower hundreds of feet tall the line of sight can be a quite a long range. In this case mounting the boats antenna higher may not make that much of a difference. On the other hand, two boats with low mounted antenna's would not get anywhere near the same range. You could have good communication with a tall shore station but be unable to reach another boat halfway between you and the shore station. Another thing with a shore station is that the antenna being used may not be anywhere near the station you are talking too. The gain of your antenna makes a major difference too. A high gain antenna can increase range when the boat is flat but lose contact completely as it heels, even at fairly short distances. A lower gain antenna is much more forgiving but has less maximum range. The reason that extremely low frequency radio waves are used to communicate with submarines is so they can communicate below the water. Electromagnetic waves do not penetrate very far into water. Light penetrates only a short distance into the water. The depth of penetration is directly related to wavelength. The lower the frequency, the longer the wavelength. The longer the wavelength the farther it can propogate through the water. The disadvantage to low frequency is that bandwidth (the rate at which information can be sent) is dependent upon the frequency. The lower the frequency the slower the rate. Extremely low frequencies send date extremely slowly. Another disadvantage is that the antenna length must be long enough to generate a standing wave in order to broadcast. In high frequencies like VHF a few feet is all it takes. For the Navy's ELF (Extremely Low Frequency) installation in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, the antenna has to be MILES long in order to broadcast. It is built horizontally along the ground because it is too tall to stand up. Because of it's low frequency however it can penetrate the ground. I'm not a radio expert but my background is electrical engineering. I hope this helps. Thanks Brian
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