Another which boat thread.... I know... sorry!

[Grum.man]

Hello all, just joined the site and am looking for advice. A little about me, live in Central NC and only have experience sailing sport boats. I'm a mechanical engineer and self proclaimed handyman. My other hobby is flying airplanes which has given me the desire to have a vacation home of sorts at the coast. I am a little nervous about jumping right into a larger sailboat that will have no choice but to be in a slip or on the hard in a boat yard. If I decide sailing or affording a slipped boat isn't for me it would be nice to have a boat I could pull out and bring home on a trailer. With that said I will list my desires..

I would like a boat around 25 feet for spending weekends on sailing around the Beaufort area mostly in the sounds and water ways with a fair weather trip out to the Cape or along the coast. My budget is 20k and under to include a trailer. I would like one with a trailer so I can bring it home to start for cleaning and doing some updating if needed. The ultimate goal would be to leave it in a slip long term once I found a place I enjoy. If I listed my wants in order it would be..

1. Interior space
2. Ease of Trailering
3. Sailing performance
4. Cockpit room

I have read tons of threads and have narrowed it down to a handful of choices. I see a lot of default answers are for an S2 7.9 but I can honestly say that doesn't have the accommodations bellow deck I would want so it is out. I don't like the low head room in the Macgregor 25, and for the money I like other boats more than the Macgregor 26x/m.

1. Ericson 25
Likes: Large interior, shallow draft, sturdy boat, average sailer
Dislikes: small cockpit, tiller steer, outboard, Most all of them will need some work to bring to good condition.
Comments: I really like these boats, while they don't have standing head room it is close. This would be the smallest interior I would prefer to have. Tiller isn't a deal break but makes having more than 3 people on deck when underway a pain. The 25+ seems to have more head room and I like the inboard engine but the extra draft really makes trailering a pain. Even the straight 25 isn't easy to rig for a weekend cruise.

2. Seaward 25
Likes: Looks!, shallow draft, sturdy boat, inboard diesel, pressurized water, newer boat, easy to trailer launch.
Dislikes: Cabin and cockpit looks tight though I haven't been inside one, Seems to be a really pool sailer
Comments: My main concern on these is what I have ready about how poorly they sail and how snug the cabin seems. I guess that is expected from a boat with all of the features it comes with.

3. Hunter 260/26 / Catalina 250
Likes: Shallow draft, huge cockpit area, wheel steer and engine control option (Hunter 260), spacious interior, newer boat, Nice water storage capacity on the 260, easy to trailer launch
Dislikes: Another report bad sailer, not sure about slipping a water ballasted boat (how do you keep growth out of holding tank?). The 260 models are at or above my budget, outboard powered.
Comments: Seems to fall in the middle between the Seaward and Ericson. The water ballast concerns me and the sailing characteristics I have read about. I really like the large cockpit and the layout down bellow. Catalina seems to have a little less room both outside and in.

4. Swing Keel Catalina
Likes: Average room, reported good sailer, lots of support
Dislikes: Cheap looking and not the most attractive boat, trailerable but not easily.
Comments: Everyone recommends this boat but I just don't like the interior. I guess I can spruce it up but it is like a single wide compared to the other boats listed.

What are your thoughts on these? Is there a boat I am overlooking that would fit my mission? I see my self trailering the boat for the first year and if I enjoy it past that putting it in a slip for a few years and upgrading to something larger.

 

[DayDreamer41]

Just my opinion, if you aren't certain about sailing then spend a couple of bucks and day charter a few times to get a first hand taste of sailing. Once you have determined what direction to head, purchase a vessel which is suited to keep in the water full time, it can always be delivered to a place of your wishes by a boat mover if you decide you want to pull it and store it for a while (a stage I don't really understand).
Launching a 25' or larger sail boat from a trailer is somewhat of a pain and will quickly deter use of the investment, boat ownership is expensive, in for a ounce in for a pound, at least when she is floating you can easily use her anytime.

 

[Chief RA]

Catalina 250. Once they are this size none of them are fun to launch and retrieve. If you want a boat to just launch for the weekend, these size boats are not it. Water ballast is bad news! Daydreamer gave good advise about chartering, or sailing as a crew member on someones boat before making such a choice. Chief

 

[Grum.man]

Thanks for the responses. I realize that launching a large sailboat isn't easy but I have launched an Ericson 25 for a weekend and found it bearable so I am not too worried about that aspect. I more like the flexibility of being able to take it to different spots for a year or so to find a place I may like to put it in a slip.

 

[Sumner]

deleted post once I read all of the above.

Good luck

Sumner
=====================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Curious on your dislike of tiller steering? On a smaller boat, the wheel takes up so much space- ALWAYS, where a tiller can be tilted up to leave cockpit empty. Also much simpler, and less to go wrong.

Different on larger boats of course

 

[rgranger]

... Water ballast is bad news! ... Chief

Why do you think so? Not saying you are wrong.... I actually want to know why you think so.

I purchased my first water ballast boat this past April. Still getting used to it... it is not hard to launch or retrieve. And points better than I thought it would.... it gets tender at about 12 mph of wind and you have to start reefing. At 20 mph, it is time to motor. So... my pro & con list for an H26 vs my previous Balboa 26 is this.

Pro: The H26 is much easier to launch and retrieve. The interior is much larger and well designed. The centerboard is a piece of cake to raise and lower so beaching and sliding over shoals is easy.

Con: She is a light to mid-wind range boat. I miss "joy riding in a 25 - 30 mph breeze. But truth is, you do more sailing in light air than heavy so it might be the right trade-off.

 

[Roland5048]

Don't know your level of sailing experience but, the best way to learn is with a tiller and as Charlie mentioned can be raised out of the way when at anchor.

 

[Chief RA]

rgranger: I think you pretty well covered my reasons for not liking water ballast. Just not a serious enough boat for me plus I don't do weekenders as I am an old ....! Chief

 

[Grum.man]

Curious on your dislike of tiller steering? On a smaller boat, the wheel takes up so much space- ALWAYS, where a tiller can be tilted up to leave cockpit empty. Also much simpler, and less to go wrong.

Different on larger boats of course

While I have no experience using a wheel on a smaller boat I can say I wasn't a fan of the tiller on the Ericson I was on a few weeks ago. The tiller takes up so much room in the cockpit when trying to make turns or hold course especially when motoring in the water way. Seemed like someone or something was always in the way and you had to be careful to secure it or flip it up out of the way when you didn't have a hand on it or it would take a shin out from a passing wake. You also loose the stern seat where the tiller passes over or through. The helm on smaller boats is so small that it doesn't seem to take up much room at all. In fact the boats I have looked at utilize the helm for storage, a grab rail, small table, electronics, it actually is a positive in my mind.

 

[JRT]

I wasn't sure about our first sailboat but found a deal on an O'day 25. They do have trailers, but mine doesn't. At first I wanted the trailer but after a couple of months with her in a slip we are having a great time. She isn't perfect, needs to be cleaned each time we go out, but the investment was only $2,500 so I'm not worried. My point look for a solid boat and a slip, you might use it more and save.

If I were going to budget 20k, you should look for a mid 2000 Precision 23, my wife loved the cabin and that was what I almost got until this O'day came up.

 

[Kermit]

I like my H260. Water ballast and all. The only thing that makes setup take a long time is untying all the lines that were tied up for trailering. Stepping the mast is easy. I had my wife try it once just to see if she could do it. She did it. I disagree with Chief completely about water ballast being bad news. But we all have opinions. Mine is based on my own experience. Oh, I keep nasty smells out of the ballast tank by adding 1/2 gallon of Clorox.
All this being said, no boat is perfect. But I really like my H260.

 

[Grum.man]

I wasn't sure about our first sailboat but found a deal on an O'day 25. They do have trailers, but mine doesn't. At first I wanted the trailer but after a couple of months with her in a slip we are having a great time. She isn't perfect, needs to be cleaned each time we go out, but the investment was only $2,500 so I'm not worried. My point look for a solid boat and a slip, you might use it more and save.

If I were going to budget 20k, you should look for a mid 2000 Precision 23, my wife loved the cabin and that was what I almost got until this O'day came up.

The ability to haul out in the winter for a good cleaning, service, and wax really appeals to me right now so I think I am going to stick to boats that can towed out with reasonable effort for now. I've looked at the Precision 23 online but it just looks more cozy inside than what I am looking for.

 

[Grum.man]

I like my H260. Water ballast and all. The only thing that makes setup take a long time is untying all the lines that were tied up for trailering. Stepping the mast is easy. I had my wife try it once just to see if she could do it. She did it. I disagree with Chief completely about water ballast being bad news. But we all have opinions. Mine is based on my own experience. Oh, I keep nasty smells out of the ballast tank by adding 1/2 gallon of Clorox.
All this being said, no boat is perfect. But I really like my H260.

Would you have concerns leaving the boat in salt water with the water ballast for an extended time? To my knowledge the boat has to be hauled out to drain the tanks correct?

I knew from reading other post that there are two types of sailors to expect responses from. Those who just enjoy sailing on nice days for the fun of it, and those who are hardcore and want to be able to go out in any condition and beat the guy on the other side of the channel.

 

[Newport Bob]

My only advice after having boats from 24 to 37 ft is - if you want to spend a weekend make sure you (and any guest) can fit in the berth.

 

[Kermit]

Would you have concerns leaving the boat in salt water with the water ballast for an extended time? To my knowledge the boat has to be hauled out to drain the tanks correct

I don't have saltwater experience so you'll have to ask someone else about saltwater. I leave mine in a freshwater slip and drain the ballast every time I pull the boat out. Before discovering why Clorox is important the ballast water got so nasty I could hardly be on the boat. Draining the water and adding Clorox did the trick. I've seen threads where folks talk about using an aquarium-type pump in the air vent to blow the ballast out through the bottom. That's another thing I have no experience with. But honestly, pulling the boat out on the trailer is pretty easy. I pull mine 4 or 5 times a year for cleaning. The mast stays up then I put it right back in. I hope this helps.

 

[Meriachee]

@Kermit, are you using tie wraps to tidy stuff up? I us about a dozen on the Cat, never cut the ends off, and it takes about 5 minutes to put them on and take them off. Of course there's still line use to tie the whole works diwn.

 

[Sumner]

Would you have concerns leaving the boat in salt water with the water ballast for an extended time? To my knowledge the boat has to be hauled out to drain the tanks correct? .

Lots of water ballast stay in salt water all the time with no apparent damage to the ballast tank. Not sure what the concern would be unless it would be blisters but have never heard of that.

One of our boats is a MacGregor 26S (swing center board/displacement hull) and the last time out I tried 'blowing the ballast tank' with an air mattress 12 volt pump and it blew the water out the bottom of the boat in about 15 minutes or less. The ramp was very shallow where we were and I didn't want to back in as far to get the boat on the trailer. Without the ballast the boat floated higher so the trailer didn't have to be in as far.

Sure a water ballast boat is a little more tender than most keel boats but will still stiffen up at some point.

At about 18-20 degrees the Mac just digs in and is solid and I'd imagine other water ballast boats are the same. You aren't going to want to sail maybe any of these smaller boats in winds over 20 kts, but people do and the boat will.

The Mac is simple easy (fast) to rig and easier than about anything to launch as shown above without a ramp. The cockpit is large and the tiller doesn't come that far forward. I much rather have it than the space a wheel would take up.

The rear berth is larger than the berth on our 37' Endeavour and I'll bet larger that about any boat that has been mentioned. Still I don't think I'd recommend it to you considering what you seem to be looking for, but for someone else that is reading this thread take a look at a displacement water ballast boat like the MacGregor 26S or others. They have a lot to offer,

Sumner
====================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Grum.man

I retired as a sailboat dealer in Zebulon NC as American Marine &Sail delivering boats to NC coast for years to includ new and used Beneteau Hunter Catalina Precision MacGregor and others. I have a feeling the referenced Hunter 260 came from my dealership. Feel feel free to send me an email via forum mail contact me but I did move.

Dave Condon

 

[Newport Bob]

OK, another consideration from an other ME. Many years ago when I was looking for my first sailboat I considered a trailerable. Then I realized that the time involved to launch AND rig the mast and sails would result in not using the boat as often - evening sails -
Unless only launching in spring and out in fall, keeping on a mooring or slip. Of course only if you live near the water.