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Getting closer
Good point So i mark the jib at the luff after lowering it, or tie a string to my spare halyard at the right level. Would you go with me now?
Good point So i mark the jib at the luff after lowering it, or tie a string to my spare halyard at the right level. Would you go with me now?
If you have an almanac and a sextant then a
noon sight will let you determine latitude. Even the old farmer's almanac is adequate for this purpose. The sun never changes more than a few minutes a day. You need a watch for longitude. But Polaris or a noon sight will get you latitude. Edited for spelling.
noon sight will let you determine latitude. Even the old farmer's almanac is adequate for this purpose. The sun never changes more than a few minutes a day. You need a watch for longitude. But Polaris or a noon sight will get you latitude. Edited for spelling.
Not a test
Nope this was not a test. Just my curiosity at work, and just maybe the urge to stir the pot a little bit. I am surprized by the answers. Bunch of smart people on here when you get right down to it. I actually do not think there is an answer to this that is positively correct. At least for everyone. I have fished out of that place since dirt was invented. Used to run offshore in a 16' outboard rig. Needless to say if you missed the jetties, and didn't know on which side, fuel would be a major problem. I always just set a course that I knew would make landfall, either north or south of the jetties. Didn't matter which, long as I knew which side I was on. I sort of expected someone to post up that they could steer a compass course that would take them right to the jetty. If I was making this trip under the listed circumstances, I would steer a course to make landfall around Corpus, or a little south of there. Then follow the coast down to Port Mansfield. But after reading Rick's post it has become a moot point. Would have to make it into Corpus and take the ditch south, if the Mansfield cut is not that shallow. When I left there a couple of years ago there was about 7' of water in there. Hopefully they will get around to dredging it soon, as that is a neat little place to spend some time.
Nope this was not a test. Just my curiosity at work, and just maybe the urge to stir the pot a little bit. I am surprized by the answers. Bunch of smart people on here when you get right down to it. I actually do not think there is an answer to this that is positively correct. At least for everyone. I have fished out of that place since dirt was invented. Used to run offshore in a 16' outboard rig. Needless to say if you missed the jetties, and didn't know on which side, fuel would be a major problem. I always just set a course that I knew would make landfall, either north or south of the jetties. Didn't matter which, long as I knew which side I was on. I sort of expected someone to post up that they could steer a compass course that would take them right to the jetty. If I was making this trip under the listed circumstances, I would steer a course to make landfall around Corpus, or a little south of there. Then follow the coast down to Port Mansfield. But after reading Rick's post it has become a moot point. Would have to make it into Corpus and take the ditch south, if the Mansfield cut is not that shallow. When I left there a couple of years ago there was about 7' of water in there. Hopefully they will get around to dredging it soon, as that is a neat little place to spend some time.
Charts
Yeah Ross, that chart is fairly close. The water towers are in town, which is about nine miles from the beach. So not visible from offshore. There is a light on both jetties, but I sure don't remember them being 25 meters. As best I remember they are only about six feet or so tall, and for all intents and purposes would be totally useless during daylight hours. The farewell bouy is maybe a mile out, but has no light on it, only a bell or whistle. Once inside the jetties and the land cut, there is range in town that you can use to stay in the channel. Really nice country down there if you like desolation and lots of very shallow water. But it is one of my favorite places. Fishing down that way is fantastic. Another favorite is a little fishing village about 150 miles down in Mexico. ( Soto La Marina ) These guys go out offshore daily in their little outboard powered rigs. They don't have even a compass. Used to wonder how come they came in after dark every day. Finally dawned on me that they were far enough offshore, that they had to use the little red light on the end of the jetty to find their way back. There is a lighthouse there, but in my ten or twelve trips down there, have never seen it working.
Yeah Ross, that chart is fairly close. The water towers are in town, which is about nine miles from the beach. So not visible from offshore. There is a light on both jetties, but I sure don't remember them being 25 meters. As best I remember they are only about six feet or so tall, and for all intents and purposes would be totally useless during daylight hours. The farewell bouy is maybe a mile out, but has no light on it, only a bell or whistle. Once inside the jetties and the land cut, there is range in town that you can use to stay in the channel. Really nice country down there if you like desolation and lots of very shallow water. But it is one of my favorite places. Fishing down that way is fantastic. Another favorite is a little fishing village about 150 miles down in Mexico. ( Soto La Marina ) These guys go out offshore daily in their little outboard powered rigs. They don't have even a compass. Used to wonder how come they came in after dark every day. Finally dawned on me that they were far enough offshore, that they had to use the little red light on the end of the jetty to find their way back. There is a lighthouse there, but in my ten or twelve trips down there, have never seen it working.
Compass Error over 600 Miles
I would not like to rely on just a compass for a 600 mile run. Every 1 degree of error in either the compass or your steering produces an off-course error of 1.7 nm per 100 nm run (2 pi r/360)so over 600 miles, about a 10 mile error. Raise your hand if you think you can steer within 1 degree for 600 miles, never mind leeway, tide set and currents, and assuming your compass is that accurate. This is the reason, as others have noted, why sailors in wooden ships went north or south to the lattitude of their destination and then tried to go straight east or west, adjusting for error using night sights of Polaris or daily noon sun shots. Before clocks were very accurate (say 1820)even with a good sextant and almanac, longitude was chancy.
I would not like to rely on just a compass for a 600 mile run. Every 1 degree of error in either the compass or your steering produces an off-course error of 1.7 nm per 100 nm run (2 pi r/360)so over 600 miles, about a 10 mile error. Raise your hand if you think you can steer within 1 degree for 600 miles, never mind leeway, tide set and currents, and assuming your compass is that accurate. This is the reason, as others have noted, why sailors in wooden ships went north or south to the lattitude of their destination and then tried to go straight east or west, adjusting for error using night sights of Polaris or daily noon sun shots. Before clocks were very accurate (say 1820)even with a good sextant and almanac, longitude was chancy.
David, besides that we can also have local
magnetic disturbances of several degrees. In Warren's dense fog my compass will tell me if I am going north in the channel and heading for home or going south and heading for God knows what. ;D
magnetic disturbances of several degrees. In Warren's dense fog my compass will tell me if I am going north in the channel and heading for home or going south and heading for God knows what. ;D
I have THE answer
Leave Clearwater heading straight west. Do the best you can on this heading and ignore drift, storms, etc. Eventually you will hit land. Set the hook and dinghy ashore. If the people you meet speak only Spanish turn to the north. If you find at least one English Speaker head south.
Leave Clearwater heading straight west. Do the best you can on this heading and ignore drift, storms, etc. Eventually you will hit land. Set the hook and dinghy ashore. If the people you meet speak only Spanish turn to the north. If you find at least one English Speaker head south.
I don't think even ancient mariners could
have pulled that one without local knowledge. Just don't see them Vikings wanting to pilferage a fishing village in Texas. Give me a chart, a watch and a sextant and I could make a go at it but without those forget it. When you mentioned the lights I figured you had to approach at night but you still need to be not more than a mile away to be able to see them. I figured you could go around the coast and stop and ask directions every couple of days. Not much semanship but would eventually get me there. If any one tells you they can make it across the Gulf with a compass and the stars DON'T GET IN A BOAT WITH THAT PERSON.
have pulled that one without local knowledge. Just don't see them Vikings wanting to pilferage a fishing village in Texas. Give me a chart, a watch and a sextant and I could make a go at it but without those forget it. When you mentioned the lights I figured you had to approach at night but you still need to be not more than a mile away to be able to see them. I figured you could go around the coast and stop and ask directions every couple of days. Not much semanship but would eventually get me there. If any one tells you they can make it across the Gulf with a compass and the stars DON'T GET IN A BOAT WITH THAT PERSON.
Benny, you CAN sail across the gulf with just
the stars and a compass but not to any specific place. I once read a Kurt Vonnegut book about a ship headed for the Galapagos from Peru. He navigated thusly; keep the sun at your back until noon and the sail towards the sun after noon and maintain the same course at night as you had at sunset. If you plot that track it will work, sort of, but you can't be certain of where it will land you.
the stars and a compass but not to any specific place. I once read a Kurt Vonnegut book about a ship headed for the Galapagos from Peru. He navigated thusly; keep the sun at your back until noon and the sail towards the sun after noon and maintain the same course at night as you had at sunset. If you plot that track it will work, sort of, but you can't be certain of where it will land you.
ONSTAR!!
Well being a man and not allowed to ask for directions my next step would be to pop the EPIRB. I am sure the Coasties must know the way! LOL If you end up way of course there is always the old stand by of "I changed my mind and thought this would be better spot" line. One of my favorites is when you know you are really lost. Let the Admiral take the helm for a while and go take a 30 min nap. When you wake pretend like she has steered you way off course. Be careful not to use this one too much or she will catch on! Actually I think to make it under the circumstances would be more luck than skill. Without a chart you can not even work out a plot ahead of time, although I would not advocate it once you have your legs worked out for headings and time you could do it without the chart. The scariest part for me is no depth sounder (you did say No electronics). Even those salty ole dogs of days gone by ran aground on occasion. Great thread though and look at all of the creative thinking..that is the genius of this forum.
Well being a man and not allowed to ask for directions my next step would be to pop the EPIRB. I am sure the Coasties must know the way! LOL If you end up way of course there is always the old stand by of "I changed my mind and thought this would be better spot" line. One of my favorites is when you know you are really lost. Let the Admiral take the helm for a while and go take a 30 min nap. When you wake pretend like she has steered you way off course. Be careful not to use this one too much or she will catch on! Actually I think to make it under the circumstances would be more luck than skill. Without a chart you can not even work out a plot ahead of time, although I would not advocate it once you have your legs worked out for headings and time you could do it without the chart. The scariest part for me is no depth sounder (you did say No electronics). Even those salty ole dogs of days gone by ran aground on occasion. Great thread though and look at all of the creative thinking..that is the genius of this forum.
Castaway
as in the Tom Hanks movie was only interesting to me to see a modern man learn the skills we don't think are important any more. This navigation question is interesting because the body of water is large, okay huge if you live on it, but large from a California perspective since i have a map of the world 8'x12' on a wall in my office. But, there is a very high chance of landfall (storm, hit a container, etc.) Now, we think of adventure as getting in your car and driving Interstate 80 from San Francisco to New York City. I have 37 lives who would suffer at least monetarily if i decided to stop daydreaming of places to go on my map, bail on work, and risk my life, but this is not about me. Native Americans, i understand, used to have a test of manhood. I guess this question, and the spirit of sailing instead of powerboating in general, brings those thoughts to mind for me. I wonder what tricks the ancients used. I've read that the type of birds they saw gave them a clue that land was near. Maybe another thread on how they did it.
as in the Tom Hanks movie was only interesting to me to see a modern man learn the skills we don't think are important any more. This navigation question is interesting because the body of water is large, okay huge if you live on it, but large from a California perspective since i have a map of the world 8'x12' on a wall in my office. But, there is a very high chance of landfall (storm, hit a container, etc.) Now, we think of adventure as getting in your car and driving Interstate 80 from San Francisco to New York City. I have 37 lives who would suffer at least monetarily if i decided to stop daydreaming of places to go on my map, bail on work, and risk my life, but this is not about me. Native Americans, i understand, used to have a test of manhood. I guess this question, and the spirit of sailing instead of powerboating in general, brings those thoughts to mind for me. I wonder what tricks the ancients used. I've read that the type of birds they saw gave them a clue that land was near. Maybe another thread on how they did it.
The polynesian navigators knew which stars
rose or set over which islands. That was not just one star for each island it was a whole night full of stars one after the other at all times of the year. They learned how the swells and waves refracted and reflected off the islands. If a star rises in the east it is only good to steer east by for an hour or two before it is south east so you need another star that rises in the east and then another and another all night. The place of the full moon against the night sky will tell you the months of the year. The position of Ursa major and cassiopeia rotates around polaris and a study of them will show where you are on the calender.
rose or set over which islands. That was not just one star for each island it was a whole night full of stars one after the other at all times of the year. They learned how the swells and waves refracted and reflected off the islands. If a star rises in the east it is only good to steer east by for an hour or two before it is south east so you need another star that rises in the east and then another and another all night. The place of the full moon against the night sky will tell you the months of the year. The position of Ursa major and cassiopeia rotates around polaris and a study of them will show where you are on the calender.
How about
flying a large Mexican flag and heading to Mexico. Once there head north. When the US Coast Guard comes alongside ask them where the entrance is? Just kidding of course. For this trip you must have a chart at least. Although longer stay in sight of land and take a fix at least once a day till you arrive at Corpus. Then into the ICW.
flying a large Mexican flag and heading to Mexico. Once there head north. When the US Coast Guard comes alongside ask them where the entrance is? Just kidding of course. For this trip you must have a chart at least. Although longer stay in sight of land and take a fix at least once a day till you arrive at Corpus. Then into the ICW.
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