That's the most amazingly insensitive thing I've seen someone write on the internet in a long time.
Another Loss at Sea
- Thread starter Rick D
- Start date
I spent a number of years in the Coast Guard and did more SAR cases as a crewmember and as a coxswain than I care to remember. Some people do stupid stuff when it comes to boats. I remember almost running over four guys in a 12 foot unpowered john boat sitting in the middle of a ship channel in thick can't see the bow of the 41 fog. Their only comment was "we'll pick up the beer cans." I also remember a group of five or six guys capsizing in the gulf of Mexico during a sudden storm and when I found the crew safe after clinging to a cooler and floating to a capped oil well, no one could explain why they did not put on a life jacket when the weather got nasty, not to mention the one guy was irate because we took so long to find them and he was going to be late for a meeting. And for those that need a real dose of some Debbie Downer, I did pull a few bodies, and not one of them was wearing a life jacket. So I am not in the least bit surprised when an overloaded fifteen foot open boat has an accident that results in the loss of life. The thing that surprises me is that it does not happen more often. A shipmate once explained it like this, "some guys will buy a boat, take a safety course, equip and operate the boat in a safe and prudent manner, within the limits of the boat and their skills. Other guys buy a boat, then they get a pair of deck shoes and a goofy hat and they think they are Magellan." The latter were the guys that gave me the most grief. Just my opinion, I need to go take my meds now.
Sad, but the fact is many accidents in boating are caused by plain stupidity. Seven people in a small skiff is stupidity plain and simple. Add the fact they were on the weather side of the island. They were Koreans so it's doubtful they were locals. I spend a lot of time in Catalina on my sailboat. The locals who keep small boats there seem a lot more savvy than these people. It wouldn't surprise me if they were illegaly trying to take abalone.
The one in Dana Point was very close to home (literally) - I'd like more details, but the news sources don't seem to have any more info. Some of zee's points may be close to the truth. (Zee was a pro nurse for many years IIRC, may come off as harsh... betcha it goes with the profession)
I was out both days (coast near Dana, not near Catalina) - but other than bigish long-pd swell, it was pretty benign. Not anything like the week before which was 25+kts.
Those guys in the skiff -- that's just tough to imagine how that could happen unless they were all non-swimmers. And I'll bet we'll never find out unless unless some boater talks to the coasties about it.
I was out both days (coast near Dana, not near Catalina) - but other than bigish long-pd swell, it was pretty benign. Not anything like the week before which was 25+kts.
Those guys in the skiff -- that's just tough to imagine how that could happen unless they were all non-swimmers. And I'll bet we'll never find out unless unless some boater talks to the coasties about it.
Jackdaw, thank you for this..... I don't recognize the generally kind people in these responses. A wonderful woman has died and her family is forever changed. It was an accident that could happen to anyone, and to suggest that there was anything sinister about it is mean and irresponsible.
a close call. - stay on the boat
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...a9a24c-3e02-11e6-80bc-d06711fd2125_story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...a9a24c-3e02-11e6-80bc-d06711fd2125_story.html
This weekend in St Augustine. we had a bad crash on the water around midnight. seems that 4 were on a 14 ft boat fishing next to bridge. well a ski boat barreling down the intercoastal ran into the back of the small boat just under the bridge. the guy stoped turned around and through a rope to the driver of the small boat .he had his leg amputated by the prop.and told him to use it to tie around his leg to stop the bleeding. the boat had no motor or transome on it from the impact. then they guy takes off again. he was caught running and the poor fellows were saved by a local fisherman. I still have not heard everthing but there seems to be a dispute over who was driving. I am sure that alcohol had something to do with that but have not heard anything yet perhaps running drugs in the middle of the night, it is a sad point when a man leave anouther to die for his stupidity
An update with details on the Catalina incident:
http://m.ocregister.com/articles/angeles-720632-county-guard.html
Was a 22 foot Bayliner, apparently under way.
A lot of assumptions made on this thread. And then it appears it was just bad navigation decisions, while near the shore to fish. Several other boats there too, including commercial. The difference being the commercial guys know what they're doing. No booze, no poaching, not overloaded, no bad weather. Just poor navigation judgement and lack of basic safety (vests), and they were unlucky. Got in an unfortunate spot and couldn't get out.
http://m.ocregister.com/articles/angeles-720632-county-guard.html
Was a 22 foot Bayliner, apparently under way.
A lot of assumptions made on this thread. And then it appears it was just bad navigation decisions, while near the shore to fish. Several other boats there too, including commercial. The difference being the commercial guys know what they're doing. No booze, no poaching, not overloaded, no bad weather. Just poor navigation judgement and lack of basic safety (vests), and they were unlucky. Got in an unfortunate spot and couldn't get out.
You don't think 7 people on a 22ft Bayliner or any other 22ft boat is overloading? Remind me not to go boating with you.
You're not invited. In fact you'd be thrown off at the dock.
Not grossly overloaded as previously assessed. And no, 7 little Korean guys on a 22 footer is not negligent. It's a 4,000lb boat, not a 14 foot skiff. Passenger capacity is probably plated at 10. Look it up, I'm too busy.
My wife is Korean.Good, I wouldn't come if you did. "Little Korean guys" ? That sound politically incorrect to me
My power boat is 19ft and the plate says max 7 persons. not that I would take that many I feel comfortable with 4 people. 5 seems a little crowded
Reading a few posts on the Bayliner Owners forum (but not regarding this incident), and elsewhere, suggests that powerboats are sometimes unrated as to capacity but when they are the number of persons seems rather high. Apparently, some ratings appeal to the formula of: (Length x Width)/15 = No. of persons, which can yield preposterously high numbers that even the powerboaters themselves evidently don't believe. Whether or not a boat is "overloaded" depends on the average weight of the persons x their number, plus the weight of the other gear and supplies and, of course, how it is stowed, etc. So, we don't really know if the Bayliner of this incident was truly overloaded or not, and whether or not had it been was a factor in its foundering. But if, as the report stated, one is trying to power over a wave that is cresting, or that is breaking, at a 45-deg angle to it, the weight of the boat and the position of persons/passengers as the boat becomes inclined athwart as the wave passes under it, could make a difference, in my opinion. There might be several "errors" here that led to this accident, etc. Having once owned a 20' Grady White (ca. 3,000 lb), I would conclude that more than 5 persons would be overloading it with persons; so on a 22-footer, perhaps 7 is technically not "overloaded." I doubt that I would take 5 persons to sea on that GW; but 4 (including myself) I did often and w/ dive gear at times. But I also doubt I would take 7 persons to sea on that 22-footer for similar reasons.
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King, LxW/15 is often mistakenly stated to be the safe capacity of a boat. IT is NOT. It is the number of people above which the coasties consider it excessive and un-prudent. "Safe" is the capacicty on the manufacture's plate.
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