Another Jiffy Reefing Question

[Ken Cross]

Our boat currently has two lines for reefing. One for the forward and one for the aft reef points. I never changed it to a single line system because it looked like it would take way more force to reef with the single line. Am I missing something?

I just didn't want to hijack an earlier thread.

Ken

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Here's an excellent article from a saill making site on reefing. Down towards the bottom they go into the reason's many don't like single line set ups (myself included)

http://www.pineapplesails.com/articles/reefing.htm

 

[Gunni]

I sailed for many years with a two line reefing system and the last 6 with a single line reefing system. Both work well, the single line reefing works better when singlehanding. With halyard in one hand (one wrap on the port cabin winch), and the reefing line in the right hand I can complete a reefing by myself in under 30 seconds. It helps to have quality control lines in good condition. McLube Saillube is your friend.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Double line reefing is far superior. The link in reply #2 explains why very well. Getting the tack down at the same time as the clew is not really necessary; as long as the halyard is marked for the proper reefing points, drop the halyard, tighten the clew reef line, then you can take all day to tighten the tack and readjust the halyard.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Double line reefing is far superior. The link in reply #2 explains why very well. Getting the tack down at the same time as the clew is not really necessary; as long as the halyard is marked for the proper reefing points, drop the halyard, tighten the clew reef line, then you can take all day to tighten the tack and readjust the halyard.

I think you have that in reverse, Stu. I believe one would want to tighten the tack first. This keeps from putting strain on the sail slugs that could happen by pulling them aft, which might occur if the luff of the sail is too slack.

But I do agree with your general point about the superiority of double vs. single line reefing.

By the way: what are your suggestions for marking the halyard? I've tried permanent markers but they are difficult to see (on my halyards, anyway). Electrical tape works OK but falls off too quickly. Suggestions?

 

[Joe]

By the way: what are your suggestions for marking the halyard? I've tried permanent markers but they are difficult to see (on my halyards, anyway). Electrical tape works OK but falls off too quickly. Suggestions?

Ditto or 2 line.

Contrasting color whipping twine, needled through the line a few times will prevent slipping.

 

[trainmanjess]

hello all

I use the 2 lines for my jiffy reefing.... I set up both lines to come along the boom to the mast, then down to the mast base and back over the cabin top to the cockpit.... my boat is set up for solo sailing... everything comes back over the cabin to the cockpit so I can get to it easily without going up on deck....

I also used the colored twine trick to mark my halyards or sheets as different points for easy identification for pre set points or positions when sailing....

sincerely
Jess

 

[Stu Jackson]

By the way: what are your suggestions for marking the halyard? I've tried permanent markers but they are difficult to see (on my halyards, anyway). Electrical tape works OK but falls off too quickly. Suggestions?

I agree, perhaps "all day" could be taken too literally. I generally drop the halyard and pull both the tack and clew lines, but snug the clew line first, the tack can wait. I do have Harken batt cars, so no slug issues for me.

I use a BIG black Magic Marker. Requires regular "re-dos". I mark the reefing lines at the clutches and the clew lines at the boom sheaves, too.

 

[Gunni]

So when I had 2 line reefing, I thought it was great. Then I got single line reefing. The pineapple sail guy comments indicate he (she) doesn't know how to use a single line reef system. Halyard management is the give away. Just saying..

 

[Alan Gomes]

So when I had 2 line reefing, I thought it was great. Then I got single line reefing. The pineapple sail guy comments indicate he (she) doesn't know how to use a single line reef system. Halyard management is the give away. Just saying..

On my 27 footer I had single line reefing and thought it was great. Then I bought a 30 footer that had 2 line reefing. When I got my recent 26 footer I set it up with 2 line reefing.

The one advantage I can see to single line reefing--and it is an advantage--is that it reduces the number of lines going to the cockpit if you choose to run the lines aft. That can help reduce the spaghetti if one likes to keep the first and second reefs rigged up all the time. But since I only keep my first reef rigged it is not cluttered.

There is less friction with separate tack and clew lines and I can get the sail reefed just as quickly as I could with single line. There is also more control over adjusting the tension on the tack and the clew, i.e., independently. I have my lines led aft and can tuck in a reef in less than 30 seconds without leaving the cockpit. So the speed advantage of single line reefing is nil.

As Stu the Sage often says, "Your boat, your choice."

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Well, since I am in the minority and refuse to run control lines to the cockpit, as a dangerous practice, instead of a safety thing. My feeling, and it is shared by many offshore folks, is that WHEN (not if) something snarls, or binds, or generally goes south, you are not used to working up forward. So you are not familiar with where the hand holds are, and how to move up there.

And believe me, sooner or later you'll find yourself up at the mast, when it's blowing snot.

And yes, I wear a harness and tether offshore.

 

[Ward H]

I followed the advice from Stu, Joe and others here and went with a two line system when I ran my lines aft. Joe recommended Marlow Super Pre-Stretch line. It is stiff and slippery so it slides through cringles* and blocks easily so friction is low.
I'm happy with the ease of setting and shaking out a reef.

 

[Ken Cross]

Thanks everyone. I knew I could get good answers here.
Ken

 

[bffatcat]

jiffy reefing continued

I agree with stu 2 lines is the way to go. Whether to start with the forward or aft line dosent matter. (my opinion) It a matter of choice I prefer to do the tack first but many sailors I know start with the aft line I use new england ropes stay set but any line with minimum stretch will do. At 77 I can put a reef in in less than 5 minutes. but I don`t tie the points in'
I put half the dead area on either side of the boom Works for me

 

[Stu Jackson]

Well, since I am in the minority and refuse to run control lines to the cockpit, as a dangerous practice, instead of a safety thing. My feeling, and it is shared by many offshore folks, is that WHEN (not if) something snarls, or binds, or generally goes south, you are not used to working up forward. So you are not familiar with where the hand holds are, and how to move up there.

And believe me, sooner or later you'll find yourself up at the mast, when it's blowing snot.

And yes, I wear a harness and tether offshore.

Yes, conceptually that may be true. However, it neglects those of us who have our stuff led aft and STILL find a way, regardless of our advanced age, to test our "nimble-ness" and go forward using handholds appropriately. I sail singlehanded a LOT, and anchor out almost every time I go out (weekly). I DO know how to get to the pointy end.

I think your comment minimizes the reality of those of us who do have our lines led aft for safety, since, as noted by some respondents, we CAN and DO reef from the cockpit, on the fly. As mentioned in other of these kinds of threads, I head upwind, sail on the jib, drop the traveler and the mainsheet if necessary to luff the main, drop the halyard and pull the reefing lines in. Done. Fast, Doesn't even take those five minutes at all. Oh, if you count the time it takes to get the boat going in the right direction...

I think HAVING to go forward ALL THE TIME is simple LESS safe.

Your boat, your choice.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Yes, conceptually that may be true. However, it neglects those of us who have our stuff led aft and STILL find a way, regardless of our advanced age, to test our "nimble-ness" and go forward using handholds appropriately. I sail singlehanded a LOT, and anchor out almost every time I go out (weekly). I DO know how to get to the pointy end.



.

Maybe when I hit an "advanced age" I'll change my mind- I'm only 73 now.

I DO have a downhaul on the jib, but it's led to the mast

 

[RichH]

The 'hands down' benefit of 2-line reefing is that it allows you to independently 'shape' the amount of sail draft to meet the actual conditions of sea-state, quite important in ocean sailing or very large bay/lake sailing.

Especially this independent 'adjustability' of a 2 line system is valued when youre sailing against/into very steep chop and/or high waves and where a flattened sail will be dismal for going forward.
When going upwind, full draft (even when reefed or very deep reefed !!!) is best for 'power' (low gear) to 'punch through' into oncoming BIG waves; less draft is for sailing in 'flat' water (high gear) - all speed, little 'power'.
The reefing outhaul controls the amount of draft, the reefing tack cringle line controls where the sail's point at which the maximum draft occurs (fore or aft) depending on the amount of tension you put into it (+ halyard tension).

With a single line system mostly what you get is a 'flat' shape - good only for 'speed' sailing in 'flatish' water and comparatively little/less power to 'punch'.

The same principals apply when 'normal' sailing without a reef in.
Full draft when against BIG or steep waves; less draft for 'speed' sailing in relatively flat water.
How to do: adjust your outhaul while watching your speedo (or VMG), the 'perfect' outhaul adjustment is the amount of tension that gives you the highest speed (VMG) for the 'present' sea state. Halyard tension controls WHERE the maximum amount of draft occurs - for (weather) helm balance.

;-)

 

[Gunni]

The 'hands down' benefit of 2-line reefing is that it allows you to independently 'shape' the amount of sail draft to meet the actual conditions of sea-state, quite important in ocean sailing or very large bay/lake sailing. Especially this independent 'adjustability' of a 2 line system is valued when youre sailing against/into very steep chop and/or high waves and where a flattened sail will be dismal for going forward. When going upwind, full draft (even when reefed or very deep reefed !!!) is best for 'power' (low gear) to 'punch through' into oncoming BIG waves; less draft is for sailing in 'flat' water (high gear) - all speed, little 'power'. The reefing outhaul controls the amount of draft, the reefing tack cringle line controls where the sail's point at which the maximum draft occurs (fore or aft) depending on the amount of tension you put into it (+ halyard tension). With a single line system mostly what you get is a 'flat' shape - good only for 'speed' sailing in 'flatish' water and comparatively little/less power to 'punch'. The same principals apply when 'normal' sailing without a reef in. Full draft when against BIG or steep waves; less draft for 'speed' sailing in relatively flat water. How to do: adjust your outhaul while watching your speedo (or VMG), the 'perfect' outhaul adjustment is the amount of tension that gives you the highest speed (VMG) for the 'present' sea state. Halyard tension controls WHERE the maximum amount of draft occurs - for (weather) helm balance. ;-)

You are simply describing how power is managed on older long keel heavy displacement cruisers with modest sail plans and no boom vang. On a modern flat-bottom cruiser the goal is to properly size the sail plan, then manage sail shape with tools (sprung vang) you don't have - including the ability to fall off a few degrees, forget that "plowing" stuff, and sail faster toward the destination. One of the first things I have to do when a new crewmember comes aboard from an old heavy displacement boat is re-train them on the fastest way to go to wind, and care for a modern performance-cruiser. The ability to, and willingness to quickly size sails is critical. Easy shorthanded reefing encourages that.

 

[bffatcat]

2 line reefing

Most of us agree 2 line is the way to go What I don`t agree on is leading the lines back to the cockpit. At 77 I`m able to go forward to the mast and put the reef in. I have to go forward to the mast to lower my main sail anyway. When I am no longer able go forward to the mast it will be time to quit. Hopefully that day is still a long way off

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Most of us agree 2 line is the way to go What I don`t agree on is leading the lines back to the cockpit. At 77 I`m able to go forward to the mast and put the reef in. I have to go forward to the mast to lower my main sail anyway. When I am no longer able go forward to the mast it will be time to quit. Hopefully that day is still a long way off

There ya go. I'm only 73, but I agree. If I can't go work sail at the mast, I'll switch to a trawler