Another El Nino winter-passage loss to Hawaii.....

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richk

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Jan 24, 2007
495
Marlow-Hunter 37 Deep Creek off the Magothy River off ChesBay
Henk

no problem. the site assumes a level of understanding which isn't apparent. perhaps the assumption is by the time one drills down "in search of" one knows what they want. there's always those who find other direct paths.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
There was a time before racing became the

predominate driving force in sail boat design that the center of lateral resistance was located somewhere along the length of the keel. The rudder was just a short extension of the keel. The boats had a deep profile and the rudder was expected to only control the direction that the boat traveled. But the modern boats seem to have most of the boat sitting on the water and the fin keel shares lateral resistance with the rudder. I don't see deep bilges on modern boats, rather the fin keels are faired into a hull that bears a resemblance to a trailerable day sailer.
 
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Liam

Sorry to offend

Gee Franklin, I wasn't talking about you. However, if the shoe fits...
 
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Liam

Yes you sail more...

Hey Franklin, Yes you take your boat out more than I do. I have only taken my boat out 3 times this year. Once for a day sail. Once for a three day sail up to Bodega Bay and once for a 5 day sail down to Monterey. So yes, you are a more active and experienced sailor. I remember reading about the time you actulally took your boat out of Galviston Bay. That was a great adventure. I would guess that most rudders will handle more than your stomach so don't worry about it. Chao Buddy.
 
Sep 24, 1999
1,511
Hunter H46LE Sausalito
lateral resistance

An interesting observation, Ross. Last summer I bought a 2005 Hunter 46LE, a boat that had already been launched for a boat show before I ever saw her. The first time I dove on the boat I was astonished at the size of the rudder. Enormous, even in comparison to my previous boat, a 41-footer. Not only does this sort of rudder provide significant lateral resistance against leeway, but the leverage on the shaft, given its distance from the pivot point on the fin keel, must be tremendous when the boat wants to broach on a wave. Even though my boat came with the upgraded stainless rudder shaft, first thing I did after my dive was order an emergency rudder. The modern rudder is a two-edged sword. I honestly doubt there's ever been a boat of comparable length that handles as sweetly as my H46LE. Everyone who takes a turn at her helm realizes that you can take your hand off the wheel for minutes at a time--even in a swell, even close-hauled--and she'll go where she's supposed to go. At the same time, that monster rudder sits back there unprotected and vulnerable. I think the sailing community has got to come to the realization--fast--that it's goofy make passages in fin-keel boats without an emergency rudder aboard. The larger the boat, the more important this becomes. Most offshore races, such as the Transpac, have been requiring emergency rudders for years. We cruisers need to learn our lesson quickly.
 
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Sequitur

It's Hunter...what did you want.

Captain error is hard for any boat to overcome... much less a lightly built coastal cruiser, with an excessive beam and relatively light displacement. Proper planning and preparation would have gone a long way to making the boat and the trip far more survivable. They could have motored for a good long while with 90 gallons of fuel... I've been out in 14' seas in a 28' boat, and it isn't that bad, especially if the interval is relatively long and they're not breaking... In a 45' boat, they really shouldn't have been a problem if they weren't breaking, and by all accounts they weren't. Hunters, with a few exceptions, really aren't designed to be bluewater boats for the most part. They're boat show boats...with lots of space below, a large salon, more berths than you could honestly fill for any significant period of time—because that is what sells boats at boat shows. Too many of today's consumers want a floating condo, rather than a seagoing vessel.
 
Aug 15, 2006
157
Beneteau 373 Toronto
Last Clear Chance

I thought the most interesting thing about the incident was that the boat was lost in spite of a tow being available. This was not a problem with the boat, it was a clear failure of seamanship. Every boat can be towed if set up properly. It is impossible to believe that a proper bridle, secured to two bow cleats or passed around the mast, would not have allowed a fairly easy tow to the nearest port - particularly since the engine was available to add push and ease the strain. I have never heard of anyone using an anchor chain as a tow rope.
 
Sep 24, 1999
1,511
Hunter H46LE Sausalito
towing a rudderless boat...

...in 14-foot following seas is going to be an exercise in futility, especially when the boat being towed displaces more than 10 tons. A friend of mine, a professional sailor who specializes in long offshore deliveries, was crewing aboard an ARC boat--not a Hunter--last year when they lost their rudder mid-Atlantic. Another boat came to their assistance immediately and was willing to attempt a tow. For three days they experimented with everything from a rudder built from the spinnaker pole affixed to a door to towing a drogue built from chain wrapped around their bicycle frame. The boat wouldn't tow in a straight line, of course, which meant that they'd chafe through their bridle every few hours. Ultimately, after three days of frustration, they had to abandon the boat and ride to St. Lucia aboard the other boat. I suspect that the decision to tow with chain was a decision born in desperation. The real mistake was setting off on a trans-Pacific passage without an emergency rudder at a time of year when prudent sailors wouldn't even consider making that trip. A word about Hunter bashing: I find it fascinating that those who engage in this pastime are almost inevitably correspondents who write under a nom de plume such as "sequitur." They are generally ill-informed about the object of their dispassion; for example, my Hunter 46LE, despite having three sleeping cabins, only sleeps six--there are no salon berths. I honestly think that Hunter bashing is a form of misogyny. Hunter clearly designs interiors to appeal to couples who sail. Open, airy interiors with spacious galleys have a special appeal for women, and Hunter has discovered this to be a way to sell boats. My wife loves our Hunter, and we've been sailing together almost every weekend so far in 2007. She loves entertaining friends aboard, and loves the fact that so many people can socialize in our cockpit comfortably. Stick around this website long enough, and you'll notice that the macho characters who accuse Hunters of not being bluewater boats also grump about the fact that there wives and/or girlfriends won't set foot on their boats. Hmmmmm. Sailing has changed. In the same way that most of us no longer sail full-keel boats that might be towable without a rudder, most of us are no longer content to sail with all-male crews. It turns out that women are too smart to put up with the dark, smelly, cave-like interiors that men used to think were so cool. Unfortunately, there is still a remnant of the old school around, writing under their ancient Latin names, who feel superior if they can bash another person's choice of boat.
 
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Liam

Thank you

John, Thank you. That was very well stated. I concur 100%. PS: I don't own a Hunter but understand why so many sailors do.
 
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