Another Battery Question.....

Jul 20, 2020
61
Hunter 30 1001 Nyack NY Hudson River
I currently have 2x6v deep cycle batteries in series on the house side, 232 amp hrs. I was thinking of replacing those with 2 12v agm batteries but cost is not in the cards. I am thinking of adding 2 new 6v deep cycle batteries@225 amp hrs to the existing setup, this is cost effective. I would add a new battery to each of the existing batteries (new to old.....new to old) in series, then parallel to the house side. I have read that batteries need to be of compatible, these would be very close in amp hrs and are deep cycle and lead acid design. Is this close enough to be connected without charging issues?
 
Jan 19, 2010
1,299
Catalina 34 Casco Bay
Mixing old batteries with new is not such a good idea.. the weaker ones will always draw down the stronger..Consider 4 new 6v or 2 new 12v...
 
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Jul 20, 2020
61
Hunter 30 1001 Nyack NY Hudson River
cost isn't to bad if I decide to replace with 4 new batteries. $550 after core discount
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,302
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Very interesting question! The question boils down to whether or not it is better to mix batteries in series or in parallel? If you do as you say, it would seem that you have 2 relatively similar 12 volt batteries wired in parallel. If you were to keep the old batteries in series and put the new batteries in series, you would theoretically be weakening the new batteries by wiring them in parallel to the old batteries.

I think theoretically, you would be weakening the new batteries either way you do it, but possibly the better option is to mix the old and new in series because in parallel, the 2 - 12 v batts would be relatively equal. But that is just my unscientific hunch!
 

NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,145
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
Scott brings up an interesting slant, however I think personally, and I am no battery expert, you would still be damning the good equally with the bad.... it would just look prettier. I would opt for 4 new 6 volt batteries.

Good Luck.... the experts will kick in soon.

Greg
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,363
Catalina 1999 C36 MKII #1787 Coyote Point Marina, CA.
Boomer, this is a good opportunity to test your setup. Buy 2 new ones and series them with the old ones each like you planned. If you see a problem, then buy 2 more of the new type and swap with the old ones. You have nothing to loose, but learn something new. Just my thought
 
Jan 7, 2011
5,685
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
Could you a second bank…keep the 2 older batts on 1 bank, and add 2 new batts to a new bank? The. Just switch between the 2 banks (but don’t combine them)?

I realize the current wisdom is to make 1 big bank, but maybe I. A case like this, it is better to keep them separate.

OP didn’t say if he has a starting battery or other bank…. If it was me (with only the house bank, and no starting battery), I think I would opt for a second bank.

Greg
 
Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
If you want to do it, do it new to new and old to old. The problem with new to old is that now you have created a situation where almost certainly the two batteries in the series connection are not matched. One of the batteries will fully charge first the other may be undercharged so then?? Overcharge one and undercharge the other, both die in a different way. If they old / old and the new / new are together at least the series stacks are similar. Hopefully the charging voltages for each set are similar.
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,302
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Boomer, this is a good opportunity to test your setup. Buy 2 new ones and series them with the old ones each like you planned. If you see a problem, then buy 2 more of the new type and swap with the old ones. You have nothing to loose, but learn something new. Just my thought
I think there is something to lose. A problem might not be seen, but the new batteries would still be weakened by the old. I'd suggest that the 2 better options are to buy 4 new 6v batteries (as @Boomer2it decided) or do as Greg @Tally Ho suggests above ... 2 separate banks.
 
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Jul 20, 2020
61
Hunter 30 1001 Nyack NY Hudson River
Could you a second bank…keep the 2 older batts on 1 bank, and add 2 new batts to a new bank? The. Just switch between the 2 banks (but don’t combine them)?

I realize the current wisdom is to make 1 big bank, but maybe I. A case like this, it is better to keep them separate.

OP didn’t say if he has a starting battery or other bank…. If it was me (with only the house bank, and no starting battery), I think I would opt for a second bank.

Greg
There is a starting battery also hooked up to switch 1, house on 2 (off/1/2/b), would then need to get a new solar charge controller also if I went separate banks and another battery switch.....
 
Jul 20, 2020
61
Hunter 30 1001 Nyack NY Hudson River
If you want to do it, do it new to new and old to old. The problem with new to old is that now you have created a situation where almost certainly the two batteries in the series connection are not matched. One of the batteries will fully charge first the other may be undercharged so then?? Overcharge one and undercharge the other, both die in a different way. If they old / old and the new / new are together at least the series stacks are similar. Hopefully the charging voltages for each set are similar.
"Charging Voltages", I will remember this and take a look. new--->new and old-->old in series connected in parallel as a single bank (2x12v) would charge ok with a single solar charger connection on parallel side +/- ? Or maybe buy a 3 or 4 battery solar charge controller and connect each series separately to controller?
Hope that makes sense.....
 
Jul 20, 2020
61
Hunter 30 1001 Nyack NY Hudson River
"Charging Voltages", I will remember this and take a look. new--->new and old-->old in series connected in parallel as a single bank (2x12v) would charge ok with a single solar charger connection on parallel side +/- ? Or maybe buy a 3 or 4 battery solar charge controller and connect each series separately to controller?
Hope that makes sense.....
right now I have a 2 battery charge controller, starter battery/house batteries connected to controller
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
4,437
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
I never mix old with new, different types, any other situation like that.

If I have different battery type needs, they are in separate systems, never mixed. This also mandates a specific charging system for each battery "system".

Even when using identical batteries in a specific "system", you will find that the individual cells within each battery age differently due to inherent charge/discharge characteristics due to the very minor difference each individual "sees" in this charge/discharge cycle. Mixing new with old, different types etc. only exacerbates this behavior.

dj
 

BarryL

.
May 21, 2004
1,074
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 Mt. Sinai, NY
Hey,

I'm not a battery expert, but here is my $.02

Do you have battery monitoring now? If so, what does it tell you regarding the available amp hours? How do the current batteries specs compare to what the monitor is showing

-2019 batteries aren't that old. If they have been properly cared for they have a number of years of good performance left
-If you want to add additional batteries I would keep your current batteries as one 12V bank and install the two new 6V as another 12V pair.
-If you find the battery performance is below your expectations then buy another 2 new batts to replace the 2019 batteries.

If you don't have battery monitoring then you really can't tell how the old batteries are doing, but they can't be that bad.

Good luck,
Barry
 

LloydB

.
Jan 15, 2006
927
Macgregor 22 Silverton
Battery manufacturer dates need always be at the same month when combining two batteries together to make a higher voltage. The guy pulling them off the shelf for you may not even check unless you ask, you don't want to find out in 2024 that you combined a 2022 and a 2018 last August.
 
May 24, 2004
7,176
CC 30 South Florida
I deal with 3 pairs of 6V(36V) in my ancient Golf Cart and I can assure you it is not a good idea to mix new and old batteries. 1) the new batteries will only charge up the capacity of the old batteries 2) instead of having to deal with replacing the batteries every 5-7 years you will likely have to deal with them every 2 years as the old batteries will need replacement, and the new will become the old. 3) It will play havoc with your battery charger as the old batteries will trigger a we are full signal before the new ones are full. As the old ones start failing the charging maladies will increase, they will have the charger cycling at mixed signals. There is one thing that will work for what you would like to do but will require your attention and work on your part. That is to create two separate battery banks, one old batteries and the other new batteries. You could make use of a 1,2,Both,Off Switch to isolate the two battery banks from each other. You could alternate using one bank for one outing and the other bank for the next outing or you could choose to faster age the new bank by using it more than the old bank. The benefits are you would have more capacity than what you have now, not exactly double as we do not know the capacity left on your old bank but you could deplete one bank and switch to the other when needed. Also having two separate banks gives you redundancy should one bank fail you still have the other as backup. 6v banks are great but if you loose one battery you have essentially lost both. The downside is you will not have full access to one whole battery bank at once. If you combine the banks by switching them to Both the current will spill over from the new bank to the old bank trying to charge it beyond its capacity until an equilibrium is reached at the old battery capacity. Over a period of time this will reduce the capacity and the useful life of the new batteries.
 
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