anode protection

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Oct 13, 2007
179
Hunter 37.5 Plattsburgh
I sail on a freshwater lake, for a second year now. My boat has a zinc anode on the shaft that was there when I purchased the boat in Maryland. Do others that sail in freshwater use magnesium? I have looked and most stores sell only lead anode,so I wonder if it is really that important?
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
You should use magnesium, since zinc anodes are not reactive enough for freshwater. No stores sell lead anodes....since lead is not used for anodes. Anodes or "zincs" are generally magnesium for freshwater, aluminum for brackish water and zinc for salt water.
 
May 6, 2004
916
Hunter 37C Seattle
Roy I think magnesium is used for aluminum

protection like on stern drives and outboards and zinc is used to protect stainless and bronze. SO I think you are OK with zinc on your shaft and if it does not get "eaten" during a year, then things are great. Posted without reading above reply, so maybe I am full of it.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
The problem is that in fresh water, the zinc anodes are not active enough to provide real protection from electrolytic corrosion.

Likewise, you can't really use magnesium or aluminum anodes in salt water, since they are too active and will get eaten away far more quickly than a zinc anode would, possibly leading to serious electrolytic corrosion issues since you probably won't be replacing them often enough.

You really need to match the anode material to the area the boat is located in.

BTW, if your anodes are lasting a full year, chances are very likely that you're using the wrong material for them—and you're really not being properly protected.

protection like on stern drives and outboards and zinc is used to protect stainless and bronze. SO I think you are OK with zinc on your shaft and if it does not get "eaten" during a year, then things are great. Posted without reading above reply, so maybe I am full of it.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Domestic water heaters use zinc anodes and I often find them covered with a clear gell but in pretty good condition otherwise.
 
Jan 3, 2009
821
Marine Trader 34 Where Ever I am
saildog is absolutely correct. With your boat in fresh water you need magnesium anodes and zinc will offer you no protection at all. Chuck
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Would someone please explain to me why, when zinc is the least noble metal in the mix and it doesn't corrode, anyone thinks there is a problem.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
The problem is that zinc is less active than aluminum or magnesium, and in fresh water, the difference isn't enough for it to work in a protective fashion. In fresh water, you need a greater differential between the metal you want to protect and the anode, because the water is less conductive. If the metals are too close together on the galvanic scale, the anode won't protect the rest of the metals—which is what happens with zinc anodes in fresh water.

Would someone please explain to me why, when zinc is the least noble metal in the mix and it doesn't corrode, anyone thinks there is a problem.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Doesn't zinc land between Mg and Al on the nobility scale? If that is so then you only need be concerned when aluminum is the object needing protection?
 
Jan 3, 2009
821
Marine Trader 34 Where Ever I am
Domestic water heaters use zinc anodes and I often find them covered with a clear gell but in pretty good condition otherwise.
Domestic water heaters use aluminum or magnesium anodes. Chuck
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
Doesn't zinc land between Mg and Al on the nobility scale? If that is so then you only need be concerned when aluminum is the object needing protection?
Ummm... no... look again:

 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Different sources different results.
Corrosion Control - Galvanic Table

Lee Erb

Originally published August 1997
Listed below is the latest galvanic table from MIL-STD-889. I have numbered the materials for future discussion of characteristics. However, for any combination of dissimilar metals, the metal with the lower number will act as an anode and will corrode preferentially.
The table is the galvanic series of metals in sea water from Army Missile Command Report RS-TR-67-11, "Practical Galvanic Series."
The Galvanic Table
Active (Anodic)
  1. Magnesium
  2. Mg alloy AZ-31B
  3. Mg alloy HK-31A
  4. Zinc (hot-dip, die cast, or plated)
  5. Beryllium (hot pressed)
  6. Al 7072 clad on 7075
  7. Al 2014-T3
  8. Al 1160-H14
  9. Al 7079-T6
    [*]Cadmium (plated)
  10. Uranium
  11. Al 218 (die cast)
  12. Al 5052-0
  13. Al 5052-H12
  14. Al 5456-0, H353
  15. Al 5052-H32
  16. Al 1100-0
  17. Al 3003-H25
    [*]Al 6061-T6
  18. Al A360 (die cast)
  19. Al 7075-T6
  20. Al 6061-0
  21. Indium
  22. Al 2014-0
    [*]Al 2024-T4
  23. Al 5052-H16
  24. Tin (plated)
  25. Stainless steel 430 (active)
  26. Lead
  27. Steel 1010
  28. Iron (cast)
  29. Stainless steel 410 (active)
    [*]Copper (plated, cast, or wrought)
  30. Nickel (plated)
  31. Chromium (Plated)
  32. Tantalum
  33. AM350 (active)
  34. Stainless steel 310 (active)
  35. Stainless steel 301 (active)
  36. Stainless steel 304 (active)
  37. Stainless steel 430 (active)
  38. Stainless steel 410 (active)
  39. Stainless steel 17-7PH (active)
  40. Tungsten
  41. Niobium (columbium) 1% Zr
  42. Brass, Yellow, 268
  43. Uranium 8% Mo.
  44. Brass, Naval, 464
  45. Yellow Brass
  46. Muntz Metal 280
  47. Brass (plated)
  48. Nickel-silver (18% Ni)
  49. Stainless steel 316L (active)
  50. Bronze 220
  51. Copper 110
  52. Red Brass
  53. Stainless steel 347 (active)
  54. Molybdenum, Commercial pure
  55. Copper-nickel 715
  56. Admiralty brass
  57. Stainless steel 202 (active)
  58. Bronze, Phosphor 534 (B-1)
  59. Monel 400
  60. Stainless steel 201 (active)
  61. Carpenter 20 (active)
  62. Stainless steel 321 (active)
  63. Stainless steel 316 (active)
  64. Stainless steel 309 (active)
  65. Stainless steel 17-7PH (passive)
  66. Silicone Bronze 655
  67. Stainless steel 304 (passive)
  68. Stainless steel 301 (passive)
  69. Stainless steel 321 (passive)
  70. Stainless steel 201 (passive)
  71. Stainless steel 286 (passive)
  72. Stainless steel 316L (passive)
  73. AM355 (active)
  74. Stainless steel 202 (passive)
  75. Carpenter 20 (passive)
  76. AM355 (passive)
  77. A286 (passive)
  78. Titanium 5A1, 2.5 Sn
  79. Titanium 13V, 11Cr, 3Al (annealed)
  80. Titanium 6Al, 4V (solution treated and aged)
  81. Titanium 6Al, 4V (anneal)
  82. Titanium 8Mn
  83. Titanium 13V, 11Cr 3Al (solution heat treated and aged)
  84. Titanium 75A
  85. AM350 (passive)
  86. Silver
  87. Gold
  88. Graphite
End - Noble (Less Active, Cathodic)
Notes

AC43.13, starting at Par 247, briefly covers several types of corrosion and corrosion protection. The grouping of materials is an early method of MS33586 which was superseded in 1969 by MIL-STD-889.
More on Galvanic Table (Almost straight from MIL-STD-889)

General

The Galvanic Table lists metals in the order of their relative activity in sea water environment. The list begins with the more active (anodic) metal and proceeds down the to the least active (cathodic) metal of the galvanic series.

A "galvanic series" applies to a particular electrolyte solution; hence for each specific solution which is expected to be encountered for actual use, a different order or series will ensue. The sea water galvanic series is the most complete series that I know and I have not seen another series published by either the Army, Navy, or Air Force. Civilian aircraft encounter moisture and a salt of some kind.
Galvanic series relationships are useful as a guide for selecting metals to be joined, will help the selection of metals having minimal tendency to interact galvanically, or will indicate the need or degree of protection to be applied to lessen the expected potential interactions.
Generally, the closer one metal is to another in the series, the more compatible they will be, i.e., the galvanic effects will be minimal. Conversely, the farther one metal is from another, the greater the corrosion will be.
Notice that graphite is at the bottom of the table. Think of the corrosion potential if you put a big hunk of graphite on a small piece of magnesium.
In a galvanic couple, the metal higher in the series (or the smaller the number I have given it) represents the anode, and will corrode preferentially in the environment. Types of Protection

Metals widely separated in the galvanic series must be protected if they are to be joined. Appropriate measures should be taken to avoid contact. This can be accomplished by several methods:
  1. Sacrificial - by applying to the cathodic member a sacrificial coating having a potential similar to or near that of the anodic member. If you are designing for a sacrificial element, the sacrificial element should be on the anodic side and smaller. Cadmium plate (No. 10) on steel bolts (No. 81) holding 2024-T4 (No. 25) plates will sacrifice the cadmium instead of corroding the Aluminum. This is one reason for using new bolts that have the Cad plate intact. (Don't use Cad plate with Titanium (No. 82 through 88). But that's another story.)
  2. Sealing - by sealing to insure that faying surfaces are water-tight. (We have "talked" about this before.)
  3. Resistance - by painting or coating all surfaces to increase the resistance of the electrical circuit. (We have "talked" about this only in terms of primer and sealant on fayed surfaces. There is still more that can be done by design selection.)
The (Non-Aerodynamic) Area Rule

Edit to add: this site edits copy and paste the original link is easier to read. http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/corrosion/galvanic.htm
 
Jan 3, 2009
821
Marine Trader 34 Where Ever I am
Domestic water heaters use a variety of anodes. Aluminum and magnesium may cause a foul taste and smell in the water that is remedied by the use of zinc/tin anodes.
This table and discussion seems rather definitive.
http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/corrosion/galvanic.htm
Ross, If you do a search on Google for anodes in water heaters as opposed to military specs you will find many sights that provide not only the anodes but information on the correct ones to use and magnesium and aluminum are the ones used. If there are taste issues, and only occasionally, then a special zinc/aluminum annode is used. Here is a typical site with detailed information
http://www.plumbingstore.com/sacrificial_rods.html
Chuck
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
Ross—

I hate to break it to you, but most of the aluminum alloys listed in that table are alloys that are designed to be more corrosion resistant than the aluminum used in sacrificial anodes. It isn't particularly surprising that they're listed higher than zinc... but they're also a very different metal from what is used in the sacrificial anodes... they're designed to gain a lot of strength via heat treatment and are fairly expensive to make. You're comparing apples to watermelons... and looking rather silly doing so. All the other galvanic series tables I've seen, other than the one you've chosen that lists corrosion resistant alloys, have aluminum between magnesium and zinc.

The most active alloy on your table, Al 2014-T3, is heat treated as seen by the T3 suffix. It consists of:

Chemistry Data :

Aluminum
Chromium ............ 0.1 max
Copper...................3.9 - 5
I
ron.......................0.7 max
Magnesium.............0.2 - 0.8
Manganese.............0.4 - 1.2

Remainder Each .....0.05 max

Remainder Total .....0.15 max

Silicon.....................0.5 - 1.2
Titanium.................0.15 max
Titanium + Zinc.......0.2 max
Zinc........................0.25 max



So, it really isn't just aluminum, now is it?

BTW, the aluminum in anodes is pretty much just aluminum....or as close as you can get to it... see HERE
 
Jan 3, 2009
821
Marine Trader 34 Where Ever I am
Roy, this is a good explanation from the Defender web site without all of the technical issues to confuse things

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How to Choose the Correct Type of Anode


All over the world you will find that there are many different water environments which require different protective solutions for your boat. However, there are really only three basic water types, which are salt, fresh and brackish waters. Martyr™ zinc and aluminum anodes protect your boat very well in salt and brackish waters whereas magnesium anodes protect the best in fresh water. NEVER MIX Zinc and Aluminum Anodes on the same vessel.

  • Zinc Alloy Anodes = Salt water only
    • Not recommended for use in fresh water
    • Alloy is manufactured to meet or exceed US Military Specification (MIL-A-18001K)
  • Aluminum Alloy Anodes = Salt or Brackish water
    • Not recommended for use in fresh water
    • Proven to last longer than zinc due to increased capacity
    • Alloy is manufactured to meet or exceed US Military Specification (MIL-A-24779(SH))
  • Magnesium Alloy Anodes = Fresh water only
    • Not recommended for use in salt or brackish water
    • The only alloy proven to protect your boat in fresh water
The protection of the underwater metal parts of a boat or motor from corrosive electrolytic action is a very real and necessary concern. The use of an activated alloy anode to distract the corrosive action to itself and away from the parts of the boat you want to protect is a simple and economical answer. Many people refer to these types of anodes simply as " ZINCS. "
The best anodes are made from an "activated alloy" in which catalysts have been added to ensure that the anode gives 100% of itself in the purpose of protecting your boat from corrosive action. It is this total giving of itself that is the root of the name "Martyr". The complete and active 'giving' of a Martyr anode is your assurance of the finest protection you can buy for your boat.
What is Galvanic Corrosion? If you've noticed corrosion on the metal parts of your boat located below the waterline, you are the victim of "galvanic corrosion". The scientific term "galvanic" corrosion describes the type of corrosion that anodes are intended to absorb. This corrosion is normally caused by different metals being near each other in salt water. Galvanic corrosion, an electromechanical action, causes metal parts to decompose. This destructive process is caused by electrolysis, an electric current set up between the metal parts of your boat, with salt water as the electrolyte. The effect is like a flashlight battery -- an electrical current is created and continues until one of the metals is eaten up -- the battery goes "dead".
What is Electrolytic Corrosion? If you see an accelerated corrosion on the metal parts of your boat located below the waterline, you are the victim of "electrolytic corrosion". The scientific term "electrolytic" corrosion describes an accelerated type of corrosion that occurs when an electric current is added to the water surrounding your boat (usually at a dock). This corrosion is typically caused by faulty wiring that permits an electric current to enter the water. This corrosion, combined with galvanic corrosion, is also an electromechanical action which causes metal parts to decompose, but at a very accelerated level. This destructive process is also caused by electrolysis, which is an electric current set up between the metal parts of your boat, with salt water as the electrolyte, but it can be much more damaging in a very short time.
You can see the eating away on shafts, propellers, rudders, and other fittings and drive parts under the water as a pitting on the surface. The results are unattractive, affect operating performance, and cause excessive maintenance of hull, propellers, engine, accessories and fittings. Some metals react more actively than others and will be eaten up first. This activeness is the reason that a steel fitting can corrode away while a brass one next to it will not (at first). Both these parts could be protected, however, by a properly installed alloy anode. The anode will be eaten away and the steel and brass fittings will be untouched. The sacrificing action of the anode is the reason it is called a sacrificial anode, and the source of the name "Martyr".
The protection of the underwater metal parts on your boat or motor from corrosive electrolytic action is a very real and necessary concern. The use of an activated alloy such as an “anode” will help. Anodes will distract the corrosion action to itself and away from expensive metal parts. Fortunately anodes are relatively inexpensive and are readily available. Factors such as warm water temperatures, polluted water and stray current corrosion can cause your anodes to waste away at an accelerated rate so it is wise to check them on a regular basis.
An important thing to remember is that you must complete a "circuit" for the anode to be effective, which means that the zinc must be in direct contact with the metal components of your boat located below the waterline. This is the reason that a hanging grouper-style of anode comes with a wire and metal clip that is intended for attachment to a "ground" within your boat. When attaching a zinc anode to a prop or shaft, please be certain that the point of surface attachment is clean and "bright" so a good contact is made, completing the circuit. Also, never paint over a zinc with bottom paint, which will only isolate and protect the anode from its intended purpose.
A Special Note on Magnesium Anodes for Fresh Water… Essentially, fresh water is a much less conductive environment than salt water, therefore magnesium anodes are your best choice as they are much more active (less noble) than zinc or aluminum anodes. The result is increased efficiency thus superior protection for your underwater metal components. Magnesium Anodes can be special ordered.
* It is not recommended to use magnesium anodes in salt or brackish water
. The result may be an accelerated corrosion rate, which may leave you with no anode protection in a short period of time and damage the metal parts of your boat.
 
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