I spent a bit of time racing an a 40 foot sailboat. I have noticed that racers are "Type A" people who seem to yell at their crew members. In my opinion a boat crew performs worse when they have a taskmaster keeping them on edge. Comments...
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I suppose if...
The berth was professional and paid then the skipper may be justified in harsh treatment of his crew. Or if it was an America's cup boat in competition at the Cup. Or if the situation were life or death then the skipper may need to be a bit more forceful. That said if I were crewing on a club racer and the skipper cursed and carried on then it would be his last opportunity to treat me that way. If I'm fouling up then I probably need an education not a beating. I alway appreciate helpful criticism. It makes me a better sail handler and crewman. When I'm at the helm and the outcome of the race is my responsibility then I treat my crew with the respect due them. If your shouting your crew into action then you've probably left something unsaid at the crew briefing or the wrong crew was selected in the first place. Mike S/B Pitterpat, Lake Huron
The berth was professional and paid then the skipper may be justified in harsh treatment of his crew. Or if it was an America's cup boat in competition at the Cup. Or if the situation were life or death then the skipper may need to be a bit more forceful. That said if I were crewing on a club racer and the skipper cursed and carried on then it would be his last opportunity to treat me that way. If I'm fouling up then I probably need an education not a beating. I alway appreciate helpful criticism. It makes me a better sail handler and crewman. When I'm at the helm and the outcome of the race is my responsibility then I treat my crew with the respect due them. If your shouting your crew into action then you've probably left something unsaid at the crew briefing or the wrong crew was selected in the first place. Mike S/B Pitterpat, Lake Huron
Little Admirals
I haven't done a lot of crewing but, the few times I did, my experience mirrors yours. I think skippering a race boat feeds some people's Napolean complexes. I just wonder why people continue to crew for them. I pretty much gave up racing after a few tries. Maybe I should try it again. But I'll have to warn the skipper up front, if he/she is likely to throw a tantrum, they better learn to tread water. To be quite honest, racing seems to me to be the perfect way to ruin a good day of sailing.
I haven't done a lot of crewing but, the few times I did, my experience mirrors yours. I think skippering a race boat feeds some people's Napolean complexes. I just wonder why people continue to crew for them. I pretty much gave up racing after a few tries. Maybe I should try it again. But I'll have to warn the skipper up front, if he/she is likely to throw a tantrum, they better learn to tread water. To be quite honest, racing seems to me to be the perfect way to ruin a good day of sailing.
Me too
I tried to crew for a race and the skipper yelled his head off at everyone. Now when they ask, I just tell them that if I wanted to be yelled at I would have stayed married.
I tried to crew for a race and the skipper yelled his head off at everyone. Now when they ask, I just tell them that if I wanted to be yelled at I would have stayed married.
Bob: Actually, I see that a lot of that to one extent or the other with club race skippers and it runs the full gamut from a little to a lot. There is one thing I've noticed and that is the poorer the skipper is at sail trim the louder he gets!! I race at the Catalina 30 National events with a group of C30 sailors who come from all over the US. We get together as a crew and take on the locals. Since we have been racing together we know each others habits and there is very little conversation on the boat. In other words, every crew member knows and does his job. The initial trim is set by the crew member and then the skipper will ask for a little more of this or a little less of that. We have been very succussful and generally finish 1st or 2nd. The quiet boats are generally the most successful boats. On boats I'm asked to crew on from a sail trim improvement standpoint, I always first speak to the skipper about his crew and their level of experience. After about 5 minutes of conversation with the skipper I already know his level of experience. If they are an inexpericed group, which they genrally are or why would they be calling me, the first thing I do is schedule a practice session and I work with the individual crew positions. When we are finished, everyone knows their job and during the race, they just perform it. I always explain to skippers that crew is hard to find and as Mike (Caseville) indicated, why would anyone want to subject themselves to verbal abuse. So since your crew is donating their time then treat them with respect or you'll be looking for new crew all the time.
Huh?
I guess I'm the odd one in this thread - in the 2 years that I crewed on different boats I was around extremely generous and welcoming skippers who not only welcomed me but took the time to educate me and the rest of the crew. This was one of the reasons that I pursued sailing. I guess, the more competetive the boat, the more likely there is a chance that the skipper may be too 'vocal'. However if we're talking about regular wednesday night and weekend races, I've only heard and experienced good comrodory.
I guess I'm the odd one in this thread - in the 2 years that I crewed on different boats I was around extremely generous and welcoming skippers who not only welcomed me but took the time to educate me and the rest of the crew. This was one of the reasons that I pursued sailing. I guess, the more competetive the boat, the more likely there is a chance that the skipper may be too 'vocal'. However if we're talking about regular wednesday night and weekend races, I've only heard and experienced good comrodory.
ONCE.
I crewed on a guy's boat once. That was enough, thank you. I would not put up with that kind of sheet from some guy for $100 an hour, much less as a favor to him.
I crewed on a guy's boat once. That was enough, thank you. I would not put up with that kind of sheet from some guy for $100 an hour, much less as a favor to him.
That's why I don't race
Cruisers and racers are different animals. When I was in high school, I loved hotrods, and gunning the engines at the stop light. I eventually grew up. When I am out for a sail, and someone wanted to have a tacking duel, or just to race a bit, I just smile and wave. Give me a quite anchorage, nice view, cool breeze, and I am in heaven.
Cruisers and racers are different animals. When I was in high school, I loved hotrods, and gunning the engines at the stop light. I eventually grew up. When I am out for a sail, and someone wanted to have a tacking duel, or just to race a bit, I just smile and wave. Give me a quite anchorage, nice view, cool breeze, and I am in heaven.
JC: With me, it depends on how I feel at the time. If I don't feel like messing with the guy coming up on me, I don't. Last year I was out for a leisurly sail and my wife, who sits with her back to the bulkhead catching rays, told me there is boat coming up on us with two young guys and two girls on board. I told her that I knew they were there. I did not mentioned to her that I had seen the young chippies in their skimpy bathing suits earlier in the day!! Anyway, I think I was reading the young skippers mind and he probably thought lets give this old fart a run. I eased the sails out a bit so he could catch me and as soon as he was about 25' back I trimmed in and took off. His second mistake was he came on me on the wrong side so my exhaust slowed him down nicely. After about 3/4 mile, I tired of the game - that's what I told my wife. Actually, I wanted to again check out the chippies!! When they sailed by me, the guys yelled over that they enjoyed the go. I was going to tell him you should have tacked immediately but I didn't bother as I might run into them again and hopefully he'll make the same mistake.
Huh?
Tony C&C: You really don't see it much on the competitive boats because generally these guys and their crews know what they are doing. I really feel it comes from a lack of sail trim knowledge. So many times I would hear skippers say "adjust the outhaul or the boom vang" for example. What is missing is WHICH WAY and HOW MUCH. The crewman can't read the skippers mind so he adjusts (probably the wrong way) and the result is not what the skipper expected. The absolute biggest thing for the skipper to know is "WHY" am I making this sail trim adjustment. If he has no idea, and a lot of new skippers have no idea then problems tend to result. Picture this - say your the skipper and you determine an adjustment has to be made to the main or jib for twist for example and you know exactly what sail trim controls are to be used, how easy can this be? You just tell both trimmer to do this or that. No yelling is involved or necessary. I tell new (and old) skippers all the time to be very specific in their commands so that each crewman knows precisely what to do. Makes for a happy boat.
Tony C&C: You really don't see it much on the competitive boats because generally these guys and their crews know what they are doing. I really feel it comes from a lack of sail trim knowledge. So many times I would hear skippers say "adjust the outhaul or the boom vang" for example. What is missing is WHICH WAY and HOW MUCH. The crewman can't read the skippers mind so he adjusts (probably the wrong way) and the result is not what the skipper expected. The absolute biggest thing for the skipper to know is "WHY" am I making this sail trim adjustment. If he has no idea, and a lot of new skippers have no idea then problems tend to result. Picture this - say your the skipper and you determine an adjustment has to be made to the main or jib for twist for example and you know exactly what sail trim controls are to be used, how easy can this be? You just tell both trimmer to do this or that. No yelling is involved or necessary. I tell new (and old) skippers all the time to be very specific in their commands so that each crewman knows precisely what to do. Makes for a happy boat.
Responsibilities
I race occasionally, and think that everyone having a position is responsible for it and should require little input from me. The mainsail person should trim it for all points of sail, the jib person the same, etc. I just steer it and suggest trim changes based on a more thorough knowledge of the boat. Having said that, I find the person on the sheets may have a better idea of trim than I since that's what they are concentrating on. OTOH, I am hardly a grand prix sailor altho I do collect some hardware from time to time. I guess it's most important for a crew to be on the same wavelength. Some skipper's hollering might be just conversation to a crew used to him, but really annoying to someone else. Rick D.
I race occasionally, and think that everyone having a position is responsible for it and should require little input from me. The mainsail person should trim it for all points of sail, the jib person the same, etc. I just steer it and suggest trim changes based on a more thorough knowledge of the boat. Having said that, I find the person on the sheets may have a better idea of trim than I since that's what they are concentrating on. OTOH, I am hardly a grand prix sailor altho I do collect some hardware from time to time. I guess it's most important for a crew to be on the same wavelength. Some skipper's hollering might be just conversation to a crew used to him, but really annoying to someone else. Rick D.
I race constantly....
...and there is never any cursing or yelling going on in my boat. My job is to 'drive the bus'. If I'm looking at sail trim then I'm not doing my primary job correctly. My crew boss has the job of calling trim and he and I will talk tactics. He is the one to reherse the crew just before a manuever NOT me, my job is 'drive the bus'. I also don't look over my shoulder to see who's coming or just past. Every second you take your eyes off the course your giving away ground to your competition. The 2 trimmers and I will talk(NEVER yell) through a manuever, but I never watch what they are doing, I just 'drive _ _'.
...and there is never any cursing or yelling going on in my boat. My job is to 'drive the bus'. If I'm looking at sail trim then I'm not doing my primary job correctly. My crew boss has the job of calling trim and he and I will talk tactics. He is the one to reherse the crew just before a manuever NOT me, my job is 'drive the bus'. I also don't look over my shoulder to see who's coming or just past. Every second you take your eyes off the course your giving away ground to your competition. The 2 trimmers and I will talk(NEVER yell) through a manuever, but I never watch what they are doing, I just 'drive _ _'.
Alan Wins Lots Of Races
...I win a few. What does this say about tactics? Of course, it's a survey of two, but you can see that running a boat in a race is simply management. There are different management styles, but I'd rather use Alan's and mine. Rick D.
...I win a few. What does this say about tactics? Of course, it's a survey of two, but you can see that running a boat in a race is simply management. There are different management styles, but I'd rather use Alan's and mine. Rick D.
lack of experience
Back in the 70's I used to crew on a race boat that was owned by this old guy (He was 65, I was in my 20's) named Ernie. Ernie had sailed for ever. He had done it all. He was a great guy. Everyone loved him. We almost always won, because of Ernie. Ernie never ever raised his voice. He had so much experience, wisdom, and charm that we all paid attention to him at all times and strained to hear him. We all felt very lucky to be around him. He was a great roll model. I miss him.
Back in the 70's I used to crew on a race boat that was owned by this old guy (He was 65, I was in my 20's) named Ernie. Ernie had sailed for ever. He had done it all. He was a great guy. Everyone loved him. We almost always won, because of Ernie. Ernie never ever raised his voice. He had so much experience, wisdom, and charm that we all paid attention to him at all times and strained to hear him. We all felt very lucky to be around him. He was a great roll model. I miss him.
Screamer's
We race a fair amount and on my boat ther is no yelling. We might have some loud discussions because of the wind and waves and noise but never any yelling. I have been on other boats where ther is some yelling. But remember we are racing and at that moment we are part of a team just like in football and basketball. Having the skipper yell out something he see's because he is at the back of the boat seeing everything is no different then a coach yelling at his linebacker's to move to the left. Sometimes on my boat I have yelled something like to make sure the Spinaker pole is locked in. I will always tell the crew it is a team sport and they are on the team that my excited voice is just part of being on the team. That I know my boat and that I mean nothing personal by it. I do not get to excited but when in the heat of battle ther are moments. Having a crew memeber drop a $900.00 spinaker pole in the water is something to yell about unless he is buying the new one. So making sure it is locked in is worth a raised voice. Cliff
We race a fair amount and on my boat ther is no yelling. We might have some loud discussions because of the wind and waves and noise but never any yelling. I have been on other boats where ther is some yelling. But remember we are racing and at that moment we are part of a team just like in football and basketball. Having the skipper yell out something he see's because he is at the back of the boat seeing everything is no different then a coach yelling at his linebacker's to move to the left. Sometimes on my boat I have yelled something like to make sure the Spinaker pole is locked in. I will always tell the crew it is a team sport and they are on the team that my excited voice is just part of being on the team. That I know my boat and that I mean nothing personal by it. I do not get to excited but when in the heat of battle ther are moments. Having a crew memeber drop a $900.00 spinaker pole in the water is something to yell about unless he is buying the new one. So making sure it is locked in is worth a raised voice. Cliff
sometimes it pays to scream
A couple weeks back, on the last leg of a beer can, I was being covered by a Junneau 40. Desperate for clean air, I whispered to the crew that we were going to throw them a false tack. I yelled, loudly, READY ABOUT! and both crews jumped to their positions. After my trimmer yelled "READY!" I screamed "HELM'S ALEE!" and came up thirty degrees. The other boat didn't budge. They ended up beating me to the line by a couple boat lengths. Later, back in the yacht club, crew from the other boat reported that they knew I was faking it because I never yell commands in a real tack.
A couple weeks back, on the last leg of a beer can, I was being covered by a Junneau 40. Desperate for clean air, I whispered to the crew that we were going to throw them a false tack. I yelled, loudly, READY ABOUT! and both crews jumped to their positions. After my trimmer yelled "READY!" I screamed "HELM'S ALEE!" and came up thirty degrees. The other boat didn't budge. They ended up beating me to the line by a couple boat lengths. Later, back in the yacht club, crew from the other boat reported that they knew I was faking it because I never yell commands in a real tack.
On the Water Principle: Be Peaceful !!!
The Only hollerin' on the WATER outta' be a friendly "HOW YAWALL" from one boat to another. CUSSIN' 'N ANGER with the family & crew outta be a "NO NO"....Where have good MANNERs gone......SIGH...
The Only hollerin' on the WATER outta' be a friendly "HOW YAWALL" from one boat to another. CUSSIN' 'N ANGER with the family & crew outta be a "NO NO"....Where have good MANNERs gone......SIGH...
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