I'm new to sailing, and someone said there is a web site or info somewhere, so I can look up by boats 'tipping over' angle, or whatever it's called. I have an 85 H23 with wing keel.
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J
Jay Hill
B
Been there
How relevant for the Hunter 23 ??
The Hunter 23 is a fun daysailor and weekender. It is NOT meant for sailing long distances in unprotected waters. It is a small boat with only 800# of ballast. Crew weight is important to trim. The Hunter 23 is easy to overpress when there is any kind of breeze. If you're sailing where you have to worry about capsize from wave action and ability to return upright, the Hunter 23 is the wrong boat to take. The more imminent concern is downflooding. It isn't hard to sink a boat like the Hunter 23 by heeling it to the point that water floods through the companionway into the cabin. Keep a hand on your sheets, and break them fast if your ankles are wet.
The Hunter 23 is a fun daysailor and weekender. It is NOT meant for sailing long distances in unprotected waters. It is a small boat with only 800# of ballast. Crew weight is important to trim. The Hunter 23 is easy to overpress when there is any kind of breeze. If you're sailing where you have to worry about capsize from wave action and ability to return upright, the Hunter 23 is the wrong boat to take. The more imminent concern is downflooding. It isn't hard to sink a boat like the Hunter 23 by heeling it to the point that water floods through the companionway into the cabin. Keep a hand on your sheets, and break them fast if your ankles are wet.
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Mikey
Wet ankles
Does that mean that the side rail/edge will be under water before the boat actually tips over ?
Does that mean that the side rail/edge will be under water before the boat actually tips over ?
If I am going to worry about "downflooding"
Mikey: If I am going to worry about "downflooding", I think that I would keep the companionway boards in place with the hatch closed too. We have a H'31 and keep the companion way closed whenever the seaway gets very rough. When the seaway is VERY ROUGH we throw in the boards for an additional safety factor. Better safe than sorry (aka dead).
Mikey: If I am going to worry about "downflooding", I think that I would keep the companionway boards in place with the hatch closed too. We have a H'31 and keep the companion way closed whenever the seaway gets very rough. When the seaway is VERY ROUGH we throw in the boards for an additional safety factor. Better safe than sorry (aka dead).
B
Been there
Yes, it downfloods before it turtles
I've put a Hunter 23's rail under water on several occassions, and once, even had water coming into the cockpit. No capsize. Downflooding is more a concern with small boats like the 23 than with larger boats like the 31, for several reasons. (a) Smaller boats are tippier. You can downflood a Hunter 23 in a good breeze. Waves aren't required. (b) Smaller boats have lower downflood angles. Bigger boats have more beam, but companionways stay the same size. (c) Smaller boats sink more quickly. If a 31 gets knocked down and starts to downflood, it likely will right itself before it takes on enough water to sink. The 23 takes water on at the same rate, maybe faster, but it has FAR less buoyancy. These considerations apply to most boats of the same size and type as the Hunter 23, eg, the Catalina 22, the Pearson 23, etc.
I've put a Hunter 23's rail under water on several occassions, and once, even had water coming into the cockpit. No capsize. Downflooding is more a concern with small boats like the 23 than with larger boats like the 31, for several reasons. (a) Smaller boats are tippier. You can downflood a Hunter 23 in a good breeze. Waves aren't required. (b) Smaller boats have lower downflood angles. Bigger boats have more beam, but companionways stay the same size. (c) Smaller boats sink more quickly. If a 31 gets knocked down and starts to downflood, it likely will right itself before it takes on enough water to sink. The 23 takes water on at the same rate, maybe faster, but it has FAR less buoyancy. These considerations apply to most boats of the same size and type as the Hunter 23, eg, the Catalina 22, the Pearson 23, etc.
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Steve Lucas
No Problem
The H23 does heel a bit but you shouldnt worry about tipping over or flooding under normal conditions. I havent dipped the rail under but I havent triied to either. If the boat is heeling to the point where it becomes uncomfortable in the gusts then you should have reefed already. The boats performance drops off considerably with excessive heel. I am considering adding a 2nd reef point on my sail. I was out on a windy late november day the main reefed/jib furled and the boat still felt overpowered.
The H23 does heel a bit but you shouldnt worry about tipping over or flooding under normal conditions. I havent dipped the rail under but I havent triied to either. If the boat is heeling to the point where it becomes uncomfortable in the gusts then you should have reefed already. The boats performance drops off considerably with excessive heel. I am considering adding a 2nd reef point on my sail. I was out on a windy late november day the main reefed/jib furled and the boat still felt overpowered.
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Steve Lucas
No problem part 2
The h23 is my first bigger boat and it has been great. It will talk to you (heel/ helm) and let you know if something is wrong. It is a great "light to moderate air" boat that is easily overpowered @15kts and above. If its windy, reef it, enjoy it and dont worry about tipping over. SALT SHAKER
The h23 is my first bigger boat and it has been great. It will talk to you (heel/ helm) and let you know if something is wrong. It is a great "light to moderate air" boat that is easily overpowered @15kts and above. If its windy, reef it, enjoy it and dont worry about tipping over. SALT SHAKER
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steve bowers
"not so"
Mikey, don't be scared off by Dr. downflood on the previos responses. I have owned both a 86 and 90 wing keel 23, the 86 being a bit more tender than the 90, but both were very enjoyable boats. The only times I could get water over the coaming I was trying to do so to see the same question you are asking. The rudder looses its grip in the water and you will head up into the wind--in an upright position if you get to the point of heeling over to much.
Mikey, don't be scared off by Dr. downflood on the previos responses. I have owned both a 86 and 90 wing keel 23, the 86 being a bit more tender than the 90, but both were very enjoyable boats. The only times I could get water over the coaming I was trying to do so to see the same question you are asking. The rudder looses its grip in the water and you will head up into the wind--in an upright position if you get to the point of heeling over to much.
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Mikey
To Turtle or not to Turtle...
Appreciate all the responses ! I've had it out in 15-20 knots winds where I dared not to even put up a main...it was too gusty too. Plus I'm somewhat inexperienced - but getting some ! We had to duck behind an island (MD Bay area) just to get the jib down. Seems like if I'm worried (15+ knots) put the hatch and boards in place, reef twice (main has only 1 right now) and pray ! I've always wondered though - why don't they make the hatchway waterproof ? Seems like I could do that myself with a little bit of rubber here and there. What I was aiming for is a hatch that can be turtled, brought back up, and read the newspaper that was inside. Still, I like my little Hunter 23 :+)
Appreciate all the responses ! I've had it out in 15-20 knots winds where I dared not to even put up a main...it was too gusty too. Plus I'm somewhat inexperienced - but getting some ! We had to duck behind an island (MD Bay area) just to get the jib down. Seems like if I'm worried (15+ knots) put the hatch and boards in place, reef twice (main has only 1 right now) and pray ! I've always wondered though - why don't they make the hatchway waterproof ? Seems like I could do that myself with a little bit of rubber here and there. What I was aiming for is a hatch that can be turtled, brought back up, and read the newspaper that was inside. Still, I like my little Hunter 23 :+)
B
Been there
Don't worry, be happy
You just have new boat skitters. I seriously doubt you'll endanger the boat in those conditions, without a spinnaker, regardless of what you do. Go out, have fun, practice reefing, and don't worry so much.
You just have new boat skitters. I seriously doubt you'll endanger the boat in those conditions, without a spinnaker, regardless of what you do. Go out, have fun, practice reefing, and don't worry so much.
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Greg Stebbins
I've got to agree
I've got to agree with those who advise to relax. Here in Texas I have no ocean or bay but our winds are fairly impressive none-the-less. I've found myself in 25+ winds several times this year and not come close to a knock down. Just head up. With that much power available, you can luff big time and still maintain plenty of headway. And there is a real opportunity in high wind situations when you've got the experience to try it. In higher wind conditions, on a reach, the 23's hull will plane and you can see what 11-12+ knots is like in a 23 (be prepared to get a little wet though).
I've got to agree with those who advise to relax. Here in Texas I have no ocean or bay but our winds are fairly impressive none-the-less. I've found myself in 25+ winds several times this year and not come close to a knock down. Just head up. With that much power available, you can luff big time and still maintain plenty of headway. And there is a real opportunity in high wind situations when you've got the experience to try it. In higher wind conditions, on a reach, the 23's hull will plane and you can see what 11-12+ knots is like in a 23 (be prepared to get a little wet though).
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henry vanderipe
safe? ithink so
I have a 22 ft. 82'. she has a swing keel. have had her in pretty rough weather. she's been at 40 degrees and hoding. I feel like the sails would blow out before she would go over. have no fear, use good judgement, and have fun. The 23' is maybe heavier and more stable with the swing keel, however the balast is in boat not the keel.
I have a 22 ft. 82'. she has a swing keel. have had her in pretty rough weather. she's been at 40 degrees and hoding. I feel like the sails would blow out before she would go over. have no fear, use good judgement, and have fun. The 23' is maybe heavier and more stable with the swing keel, however the balast is in boat not the keel.
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Bruce
Been There Too
I have a '93 23.5 and have sailed in lots of conditions. I have put the rail in the water a few times while racing (kept both sails up, had extra crew on board), but never "washed" down below at all. I agree that the boat will round up if you push it too hard, but you'll be safe. Crew comfort and skipper confidence seem to be the key factors. Have fun! Bruce S/V Off Call
I have a '93 23.5 and have sailed in lots of conditions. I have put the rail in the water a few times while racing (kept both sails up, had extra crew on board), but never "washed" down below at all. I agree that the boat will round up if you push it too hard, but you'll be safe. Crew comfort and skipper confidence seem to be the key factors. Have fun! Bruce S/V Off Call
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