What anchors (type and size for what size boat) are others using on the Chesapeake Bay? Last weekend, we dragged anchor for the first time ever (after setting) and it was quite a rude awakening both to us and the boat we hit while dragging at 7:00 in the morning, so I'm looking to see if I need to upgrade. We currently have a 25# Danforth style anchor with 20' of chain and 5/8" nylon rode, on a Hunter 37.5. It's served us well for 7 years. We do not have a windlass so I don't really want to upsize the ground tackle unless that's the only real choice. We dragged in a storm that contained gusts up to 37 knots. About half the other boats in the same anchorage dragged too, which gives me some solace, but I'm interested in being in the half that doesn't drag in such conditions.
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More chain!
Brian: My first suggestion is that you increase the length of your chain. You should be carrying about 35-40' minimum. They only other consideration is the bottom conditions. All anchors are not equal in all conditions. If you anchor where there are weeds/grass, then the danforth style anchor is the worst. You may want to consider adding another anchor to your inventory (something like the Delta or Bruce). Regardless of which anchor you use, you need to upgrade the length of your chain. The rule of thumb is 1 ft/ foot of boat length. The more chain the better (until you cannot handle it <g>) of course.
Brian: My first suggestion is that you increase the length of your chain. You should be carrying about 35-40' minimum. They only other consideration is the bottom conditions. All anchors are not equal in all conditions. If you anchor where there are weeds/grass, then the danforth style anchor is the worst. You may want to consider adding another anchor to your inventory (something like the Delta or Bruce). Regardless of which anchor you use, you need to upgrade the length of your chain. The rule of thumb is 1 ft/ foot of boat length. The more chain the better (until you cannot handle it <g>) of course.
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Buck Harrison
Brian,
While I agree w/ Steve's suggestion to increase the length of chain in your rode, I would strongly suggest that you look up the 4 articles published in 'Practical Sailor' during 2000 & 2001 that compared a variety of different anchors in a variety of different situations. The articles were excellent and go to the very heart of the question(s) you pose.
While I agree w/ Steve's suggestion to increase the length of chain in your rode, I would strongly suggest that you look up the 4 articles published in 'Practical Sailor' during 2000 & 2001 that compared a variety of different anchors in a variety of different situations. The articles were excellent and go to the very heart of the question(s) you pose.
A
Andy Howard
Scope?
Your 25Lb danforth and 20ft of chain should have handled the situation you described if.... You had a good initial set, and you had enough scope. While I agree that the danforth is useless in weeds, like you said, it's worked fine for 7 years in the chesapeake which is mostly soft mud and sand, which is what the Danforth is all about. I also carry a CQR, but 99% of the time I use my 20lb hi tensile Danforth in the pamlico mud and it works fine. The one thing we've learned from all the Hurricanes that seem attracted to our marina is that it doesn't matter what you've got in the water, if you don't have enough scope for the conditions. And at 40 knts I'd have been using 9 or 10:1.
Your 25Lb danforth and 20ft of chain should have handled the situation you described if.... You had a good initial set, and you had enough scope. While I agree that the danforth is useless in weeds, like you said, it's worked fine for 7 years in the chesapeake which is mostly soft mud and sand, which is what the Danforth is all about. I also carry a CQR, but 99% of the time I use my 20lb hi tensile Danforth in the pamlico mud and it works fine. The one thing we've learned from all the Hurricanes that seem attracted to our marina is that it doesn't matter what you've got in the water, if you don't have enough scope for the conditions. And at 40 knts I'd have been using 9 or 10:1.
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Jay Eaton
MAX
I have used the "MAX" anchor from Creative Marine on both my H31 and now on my H380. I have never had a problem holding. In fact, we rode out a severe thunderstorm aboard the H31 on anchor (MAX) in the Choptank area. The boat sailed around on the anchor, as do most Hunters, but stayed put through the 30+ minute storm and then sailed off the anchor in the morning. I love my MAX. I use it as recommended by the manufacturer - 6' of chain on 5/8 three-strand nylon rode. Scope is always an issue, even with the MAX. Check it out on their website.
I have used the "MAX" anchor from Creative Marine on both my H31 and now on my H380. I have never had a problem holding. In fact, we rode out a severe thunderstorm aboard the H31 on anchor (MAX) in the Choptank area. The boat sailed around on the anchor, as do most Hunters, but stayed put through the 30+ minute storm and then sailed off the anchor in the morning. I love my MAX. I use it as recommended by the manufacturer - 6' of chain on 5/8 three-strand nylon rode. Scope is always an issue, even with the MAX. Check it out on their website.
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David
Anchor
I had poor luck with the Danforth style. Found it good for soft sand only. Currently use a Bruce style knockoff manufactured by Simpson Lawrence. It has held in all type bottoms. Much better than the delta style because as the boat changes with wind or current direction the anchor rolls and and grabs with one of the other flukes whereas the delta is hinged and has more of a tendency to pull the flukes out. This from a Cruising World test a few years ago. Your chain should be plenty in the shallow Chesapeake.
I had poor luck with the Danforth style. Found it good for soft sand only. Currently use a Bruce style knockoff manufactured by Simpson Lawrence. It has held in all type bottoms. Much better than the delta style because as the boat changes with wind or current direction the anchor rolls and and grabs with one of the other flukes whereas the delta is hinged and has more of a tendency to pull the flukes out. This from a Cruising World test a few years ago. Your chain should be plenty in the shallow Chesapeake.
Delta DOES NOT have a hinge!
David: The Delta anchor DOES NOT have a hinge. The CQR is hinged. The Delta is pointed like a CQR and has a fixed shank like the Bruce. The attributes of a Delta is it ability to penetrate grass/weeds and its set quickly. Also has better holding ability with a smaller sized anchor than a Bruce. This may be important for a sailor without a windlass. Bottom line is most sailors should carry multiple types of anchors unless they only have one type of bottom to deal with. I personally think that a high quality Danforth type (Fortress included) anchor is a good one to have in the inventory. One of the big advantages of a Fortress (or knock off) is that they can be disassembled when not in use.
David: The Delta anchor DOES NOT have a hinge. The CQR is hinged. The Delta is pointed like a CQR and has a fixed shank like the Bruce. The attributes of a Delta is it ability to penetrate grass/weeds and its set quickly. Also has better holding ability with a smaller sized anchor than a Bruce. This may be important for a sailor without a windlass. Bottom line is most sailors should carry multiple types of anchors unless they only have one type of bottom to deal with. I personally think that a high quality Danforth type (Fortress included) anchor is a good one to have in the inventory. One of the big advantages of a Fortress (or knock off) is that they can be disassembled when not in use.
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Don
Where on the Chesapeake were you?
I sail a 37.5 out of the West River. I primarily use the Delta knockoff someone else described, a 33# with about 30' of chain. I've never had a drag so far and consider myself lucky. I have a danforth in reserve, but so far have not used it. The problem with some areas of the Chesapeake is that you can't always use the 7:1 scope because of crowds, shoals, etc. I generally try for 5:1 or so. I can say that in my experience, the delta knockoff holds like a rock. Breaking it out in the morning is the hardest task. I usually power the boat forward to break it free, then haul it up. That's getting old real fast, so this Memorial Day project is to install the windlass I bought on Ebay. Be great to know where you were when the drag occurred for future reference. BTW, those were some pretty bad storms last week/weekend.
I sail a 37.5 out of the West River. I primarily use the Delta knockoff someone else described, a 33# with about 30' of chain. I've never had a drag so far and consider myself lucky. I have a danforth in reserve, but so far have not used it. The problem with some areas of the Chesapeake is that you can't always use the 7:1 scope because of crowds, shoals, etc. I generally try for 5:1 or so. I can say that in my experience, the delta knockoff holds like a rock. Breaking it out in the morning is the hardest task. I usually power the boat forward to break it free, then haul it up. That's getting old real fast, so this Memorial Day project is to install the windlass I bought on Ebay. Be great to know where you were when the drag occurred for future reference. BTW, those were some pretty bad storms last week/weekend.
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Buck Harrison
Don,
Anchor just about anywhere on the Bay and have a thunderstorm w/ 60kt winds hit you. (Especially pleasent at 02:00) With a 5:1, mostly rope, rode you will be lucky if you don't drag, especially if you anchored in a sandy or grassy bottom. As far as the type of anchor,.... again, read the 'Practical Sailor" articles... if you haven't, you will be surprised at their results ! !
Anchor just about anywhere on the Bay and have a thunderstorm w/ 60kt winds hit you. (Especially pleasent at 02:00) With a 5:1, mostly rope, rode you will be lucky if you don't drag, especially if you anchored in a sandy or grassy bottom. As far as the type of anchor,.... again, read the 'Practical Sailor" articles... if you haven't, you will be surprised at their results ! !
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Brian Leney
Dragging location...
Don, we were in Wye River East just above Lloyd Creek. Since we've anchored so successfully for all these years, I think that in this case we just didn't have a good set, we rotated once set, or the bottom didn't want to hold us with its usual vigor. As I said before, about half the boats in the anchorage (10 or so) held and half didn't. The boat that we dragged into was a J-28 on a 20# hitensile Danforth, and he didn't budge, even with us snagged on his stanchion for a moment. I would love to hear more about your windlass install (brand, model, location), since I'm reviewing all options for improvement. I'm impressed that you've been hauling up a 33# delta with 30' chain, by hand. Does not sound like a fun proposition on a regular basis.
Don, we were in Wye River East just above Lloyd Creek. Since we've anchored so successfully for all these years, I think that in this case we just didn't have a good set, we rotated once set, or the bottom didn't want to hold us with its usual vigor. As I said before, about half the boats in the anchorage (10 or so) held and half didn't. The boat that we dragged into was a J-28 on a 20# hitensile Danforth, and he didn't budge, even with us snagged on his stanchion for a moment. I would love to hear more about your windlass install (brand, model, location), since I'm reviewing all options for improvement. I'm impressed that you've been hauling up a 33# delta with 30' chain, by hand. Does not sound like a fun proposition on a regular basis.
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Les Andersen
Chain
Brian, One thing to remember when manually weighing anchor is that you will only be lifting the amount of chain from your hands to the bottom. In the shallow depths of the Chesapeake that generally equates to about 12 to 15 feet of chain and, at 1 lb/foot, about 12-15 lbs of weight. Doesn't matter if you are pulling in 20 feet or 100 feet of chain. If you want extra weight put it in the chain. When you get to pulling the anchor then you have to add the extra 25-35 lbs of anchor. But you are still not lifting everything at once. I also have a 37.5 and generally use about 24 ft of chain and a 25lb danforth and have never (knock on wood) dragged. If you want extra security carry an extra 50 feet of chain and an adequate anchor. The extra chain will serve you better than a bigger anchor. And you can still get it aboard manually. You can carry the chain in several 10-foot sections with shackles to fit them to whatever length you want. Store them in plastic containers in the bilge out of the way and off your bow. IMHO Les Andersen s/v Mutual Fun
Brian, One thing to remember when manually weighing anchor is that you will only be lifting the amount of chain from your hands to the bottom. In the shallow depths of the Chesapeake that generally equates to about 12 to 15 feet of chain and, at 1 lb/foot, about 12-15 lbs of weight. Doesn't matter if you are pulling in 20 feet or 100 feet of chain. If you want extra weight put it in the chain. When you get to pulling the anchor then you have to add the extra 25-35 lbs of anchor. But you are still not lifting everything at once. I also have a 37.5 and generally use about 24 ft of chain and a 25lb danforth and have never (knock on wood) dragged. If you want extra security carry an extra 50 feet of chain and an adequate anchor. The extra chain will serve you better than a bigger anchor. And you can still get it aboard manually. You can carry the chain in several 10-foot sections with shackles to fit them to whatever length you want. Store them in plastic containers in the bilge out of the way and off your bow. IMHO Les Andersen s/v Mutual Fun
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David
Delta
Steve, thanks for correcting me. The Delta DOES NOT have a hinge (senior moment on my part). The Delta does set well in grass and weeds but the Bruce style is considered the best general purpose anchor for all types of bottom.
Steve, thanks for correcting me. The Delta DOES NOT have a hinge (senior moment on my part). The Delta does set well in grass and weeds but the Bruce style is considered the best general purpose anchor for all types of bottom.
So many products.
David: There are so many products on the market that it becomes very difficult to keep them seperated. We have been very pleased with our Delta. It has very good holding ability in a relatively light weight anchor (14#). Most of the bottom in the California delta is MUD/SAND. We use a danforth in this bottom and usually cannot get it off the bottom even if we are swinging on the hook. My experience with a danforth is that they work very good in sand and mud. They don't work worth a damn in weeds. If you get a hook in the weeds then you were just lucky. On the other hand the delta sets very quickly. If the bottom is grassy it sets just as fast as it would with sand and mud. Part of our criteria for an anchor is our ability to haul it aboard. We do not have a windlass so hauling a 35-40# anchor + chain aboard is difficult to say the least. We also do not have a roller so this makes it even more difficult. This is why I think that a couple of anchors of different types makes the best inventory.
David: There are so many products on the market that it becomes very difficult to keep them seperated. We have been very pleased with our Delta. It has very good holding ability in a relatively light weight anchor (14#). Most of the bottom in the California delta is MUD/SAND. We use a danforth in this bottom and usually cannot get it off the bottom even if we are swinging on the hook. My experience with a danforth is that they work very good in sand and mud. They don't work worth a damn in weeds. If you get a hook in the weeds then you were just lucky. On the other hand the delta sets very quickly. If the bottom is grassy it sets just as fast as it would with sand and mud. Part of our criteria for an anchor is our ability to haul it aboard. We do not have a windlass so hauling a 35-40# anchor + chain aboard is difficult to say the least. We also do not have a roller so this makes it even more difficult. This is why I think that a couple of anchors of different types makes the best inventory.
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Charlie
CQR
The Dansforth is great if it doesn't have to reset. I used a Dansforth for years. I now use a 35# CQR with 35 feet of chain plus 5/8 inch 3 strand nylon line on a Hunter 34. I got caught in a squall off Annapolis in a 24 ft Macgreggor with a home-made dansforth made out of "A-7" structural steel, no chain, about 3 to 1 scope. Heavy little rascal. The winds were in excess of 90 mph according to the local radio. We held fast.
The Dansforth is great if it doesn't have to reset. I used a Dansforth for years. I now use a 35# CQR with 35 feet of chain plus 5/8 inch 3 strand nylon line on a Hunter 34. I got caught in a squall off Annapolis in a 24 ft Macgreggor with a home-made dansforth made out of "A-7" structural steel, no chain, about 3 to 1 scope. Heavy little rascal. The winds were in excess of 90 mph according to the local radio. We held fast.
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