there was a question about whether the first boat to anchor (#1) has a duty to warn a boat (#2) arriving afterwards that #2's selected location may interfere with #1's navigation or ability to maneuver. if the #2 boat drifts down on or 'allides' with #1 for any reason, #2 is liable regardless of #1's lack of 'warning.' . here's an excerpt from a 2007 anchoring / admiralty law case involving Stuart Cay marina, damaged by a boat which broke free: "... 28 U.S.C. § 1333 Admiralty law applies.. a drifting vessel is presumptively liable for damages "unless it can show affirmatively that the drifting was the result of an inevitable accident, or a vis major, which human skill and precaution and a proper display of nautical skill could not have prevented." This principle is called the Louisiana Rule which derives from the common-sense" observation that moving vessels do not usually collide with stationary objects unless the moving vessel is mishandled in some way..The burden of proving the defenses of ' inevitable accident' or Act of God rests heavily upon the vessel which broke free of its anchor..."
anchoring law... and liability
- Thread starter MitchM
- Start date
Uhm, didn't Don answer that?
And after they are anchored, and #1 drags and hits #2, they will both, to various %s, be faulted.
Asked and answered many times, hundreds of thousands, before.
I think what was not clarified is this:Uhm, didn't Don answer that?
And after they are anchored, and #1 drags and hits #2, they will both, to various %s, be faulted.
Asked and answered many times, hundreds of thousands, before.
So long as #1 does not drag, #2 has a duty to keep clear, including his swing radius. Because in this case #1 was anchored and was first, % assignment does not apply, of if so, in a VERY disproportionate way. The parked car analogy applies. More to the point of nautical thinking, Because #1 is anchored, he is not in a position to maneuver, while #2, at the time he drops the hook, still has the ability to anchor farther away.
His post tries to clarifies the last sentence of this:
Decision No. 124-5861 (1956) in U.S. Admiralty case law states: “A vessel shall be found at fault if it . . . anchors so close to another vessel as to foul her when swinging . . . (and/or) fails to shift anchorage when dragging dangerously close to another anchored vessel. Furthermore, the vessel that anchored first shall warn the one who anchored last that the berth chosen will foul the former’s berth.”
Whether it actually clarifies it I'm not entirely certain, since the 1956 case does not require that either yacht dragged, only that they fouled, which I think is different. The problem with the rule, of course, is that warning another boat will probably have no effect, and it is hard to tell whether the other boat may foul as a result of a specific shift unless there is zero overlap in swing radius, which is not common in many harbors.
The common application of this revolves around #1 anchoring at very long scope or using 2 anchors. It may be rude, but it does not give #2 the right to anchor too close, if the result is that he fouls her. First come, first serve.
Strange coincidence? I take it you did not closely read this post of this morning (link below)? There apparently is no such 1956 citation unless someone can track it down. A search of Westlaw on the "No. 124-5861" of US Admiralty Court decisions produces no hits. The case referred to appears actually to be No. 124 F. 861, the Juniata decision of 1903, which contains no such verbiage. If there was a 1956 decision adding something new to US Admiralty case law about warnings--it evidently has been mis-cited in some other materials that have appeared on the web.
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/more-about-anchoring-and-admirality-law.189914/
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In the Juniata case, a laden vessel which was heavy anchored too near an unladen one which was light. During a violent wind storm that night or soon after, the light vessel became wind-rode and the heavy vessel tide-rode on a flood tide against the wind. So, the two vessels swung toward each other--neither "dragging"--and collided. The decision was that the heavy laden vessel which anchored second did not give the first-anchored vessel enough berth room by failing to anticipate conditions that could bring the vessels to collision, etc., and was faulted 100%. So, it's not so simple.
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The issue of current being as a factor, which King[s Gambit] points out above is, one the is all too often overlooked. In light (or no) wind conditions, boats can meander around and have close encounters of the fourth kind :^))).
The notification does had the a consequence of not perfectly clearing up burden. Boat #1, if it notifies Boat #2 of it being in danger; and, Boat #2 ignores it -- then if it's clear that there is a danger and something happens -- should Boat #1 move to correct the danger?
Before you answer that too quickly: Recall that under the Rules, even if you have the right-of-way, warn someone verbally (and otherwise), and you COULD avoid an collision, you can not simply stand by your "right-of-way", notice to them, and allow a collision to occur. If you can (or COULD) alter your course to avoid a collision, you are obligated to take actions regardless.
The "notice" of Boat #1 essentially clears up the contention that its skipper had "knowledge" that Boat #2 might be in a position to cause damage.
That's why I tend to say to the Boats #2, #3, and #4) that might get into us while we are otherwise nicely anchored: "Ahoy, you MIGHT be too close. I have ___' of all chain rode out..."
I also muse that I believe the ADMIRALTY LAW requires that an anchor watch be maintained. So I'm not sure that being unaware in the wee small hours of the morning -- or while you're off the boat and ashore enjoying whatever -- can depend on that. Since generally those reading this rely on more local or national laws...
The notification does had the a consequence of not perfectly clearing up burden. Boat #1, if it notifies Boat #2 of it being in danger; and, Boat #2 ignores it -- then if it's clear that there is a danger and something happens -- should Boat #1 move to correct the danger?
Before you answer that too quickly: Recall that under the Rules, even if you have the right-of-way, warn someone verbally (and otherwise), and you COULD avoid an collision, you can not simply stand by your "right-of-way", notice to them, and allow a collision to occur. If you can (or COULD) alter your course to avoid a collision, you are obligated to take actions regardless.
The "notice" of Boat #1 essentially clears up the contention that its skipper had "knowledge" that Boat #2 might be in a position to cause damage.
That's why I tend to say to the Boats #2, #3, and #4) that might get into us while we are otherwise nicely anchored: "Ahoy, you MIGHT be too close. I have ___' of all chain rode out..."
I also muse that I believe the ADMIRALTY LAW requires that an anchor watch be maintained. So I'm not sure that being unaware in the wee small hours of the morning -- or while you're off the boat and ashore enjoying whatever -- can depend on that. Since generally those reading this rely on more local or national laws...
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Better than not to know the "rules of a game" before you play it; and, as it has often been said--this forum is for everybody, perhaps more so for those new to sailing and anchoring, etc. I for one do not wish to be slamming into somebody who in the middle of the night anchored too close to me w/o thinking, and then have a 9th circuit appeals court judge decide who was at fault two years and $60,000 later.
For sure. That's always true. My point is that for over 100 years there has been so much ambiguity built into that law that in every case, it will go to court and be judged on an interpretation of the law. No matter what you think on the water.
9th Circuit? [Reference to the Federal District Court in the West]. King[s Gambit] wrote:
I for one do not wish to be slamming into somebody who in the middle of the night anchored too close to me w/o thinking, and then have a 9th circuit appeals court judge decide who was at fault two years and $60,000 later.
A number of interesting issues:
I for one do not wish to be slamming into somebody who in the middle of the night anchored too close to me w/o thinking, and then have a 9th circuit appeals court judge decide who was at fault two years and $60,000 later.
A number of interesting issues:
- On a civil matter (not involving impending doom or still flowing blood) I can't imagine getting TO the first level of Federal Court to a trial in 18 months. One wouldn't likely get a decision within another 6 months? Then, assuming one would or could file an a appeal to the Court of Appeals, that one would get to a hearing withing 9 months. Then they'd schedule arguments and you'd be another 6 months before they were ready to deliberate. Then who knows how long before a decision. [In the DC Federal Court of Appeals, we had a civil dispute that took two years to get out of the Appeals Court. That was after three years that the trail Court Judge took to issue an opinion. Justice delayed is ...
- Inland NAVIGABLE waters would probably allow one to bring a damages claim in either State or Federal Court. Those Courts are usually faster but maybe not as predictable in terms of application of the law.
- I think that for most of us, absent some horrible personal injury claim or charge, it will be something handled by insurance -- or the two parties will just have to settle themselves. Subrogating (assigning) the claim to your insurance company is usually the best idea unless you have no choice or there are injury issues or personal liabilities that go beyond your coverage.
- There's an interesting piece that deals with these issues while writing about the process in the center of the US. http://www.engandwoods.com/wp-conte...ional_boating_cases_bamsl_lawjournal_2008.pdf
Your boat drags into the marina dock you got a problem Cap. Anchored boats come into conflict quite often it would be prudent to have a plan and a cool head. Leave the lawyer-boy yap as Plan Zulu for that time when you are guilty as hell and need a good plea. Do the right thing the first time
Here’s one example how this plays out (I have been on both sides of this “conversation”):
Year ago this month we were making for the east of Antigua on a rough beat and 30 knot trades looking for relief. English Harbor gave us the relief we were looking for and the promise of a fine dinner ashore with the first mate. The harbor was full of boats including lots of the wooden classics in port for the big event. We retreated to Freeman’s Bay, just inside the gates of the harbor. That anchorage was pretty full to and no one appeared to hauling anchor and going anywhere. We putted about the anchorage looking for a spot in the lee of Shirley Heights ridge and finally found a useable location close to shore next to a small cat that was taking up at least two anchor slots. I found my position and dropped the hook, started paying out chain and observing the veer of the boat. Almost right away a running commentary began on the cat as two guys with beers gestured. I waved and went back to my job. We drifted back on the light east wind and I counted out my 5:1, set a snubber and walked back to the cockpit to finish the set. Mission accomplished I shut down the engine and observed our position, it looked good with plenty of clearance to the boats behind and beside me. The dialogue from the cat had reduced to a refrain; “Yo Mate, Yo Mate, Yo Mate”.
I waved again and asked what’s up. “You don’t have enough room there”, said a guy with an obvious Aussie accent. “Why not, how much scope you have out”, I asked. “5:1, but we have been here all week and the winds do strange things at night, you will swing into us.” I found myself considering the advice of two drunk Aussies with a weeks worth of local knowledge. Yeah Mon. After a few re-positions to see if I could make extra swing room I determined we would be up on the beach if the wind did what they said it would do. And it would happen at 0dark30.
So we moved about the anchorage and I finally settled on a little pocket just inside the reef at the harbor entrance. We set anchor and swung to the wind - 90. More boats arrived during the day and by nightfall many were making the same decision the Aussies had warned me about. Far too close, assuming the Trades would keep things in order all night. Many were anchored into the busy harbor channel edge.
About midnight I was awakened by gusting winds and arrived on deck to find the wind was now swirling about the anchorage. West, then north, west and back to east. We had swung south, close to shore and the jagged remains of a wreck. The mate slept while I sat on deck in the warm Caribbean breeze dreading my next option - a stern anchor. By now boats were pirouetting about their rodes, it was crazy. The heavy displacement boats moved slowly and oriented differently than the small light displacement boats. Catamarans veered wildly and quickly. Deck lights came on and engines fired as crews awakened to the situation. As boats swung close to one another there were efforts to shorten scope and anchors began dragging. Lots of yelling and some sleepy boat handling ensued. A boat in front of us brought up her anchor and quickly drifted back on us. I was holding a aircraft landing lamp lantern and switched it on, sweeping her stern - the skipper was naked. He throttled up and move the boat forward to try his midnight set with a crew scrambling about the deck.
Meanwhile the boat that had come in late and anchored way to close while we were at dinner was veering within 20 feet of our quarter. I flashed the landing light through her cabin ports and the crew scrambled to the cockpit. “You are going to have to move”, I said to a crew that was closer than my own mast. They were not happy. As they hauled anchor and got ready to go I brought up our kedge and assembled the rode, preparing to set a stern anchor. Once they were clear I dropped the tackle into the dink and stepped off the bucking sugar scoop and into the dink. The mate appeared in the companion way, “what are you doing” she asked. “Setting a stern anchor”, I said with some annoyance. The nervous energy of our little corner of paradise was rising. “Why”, she said. “Look around, this place is going nuts”. We both paused to take it in - deck lights, nav lights, clanking chain, half-dressed crew, shouting, revving engines. “Keep and eye on me and pay out the braid as I row this anchor out behind us.”, I said as I tied the bitter end off to the stern cleat.
By now an odd ground swell was sweeping into the harbor and barely laying down as it swept across the dark reef behind me. The sound of breaking waves was unsettling. I took the anchor back 75 feet and threw it over. It was moonless night and as I rowed back to the boat the entire anchorage looked like a parking lot at closing time, boat lights and moving boats. Back on the boat I grabbed the stern anchor rode and hauled the boat to bring the bow into the east. Once I had it hooked in the coral sand I cleated it off and moved to the bow. Bringing up some chain I was able to tension the boat between the two anchors and the boat settled down. We were safe in our little corner of the harbor, tucked in behind the reef.
We sat down in the cockpit and let the nervous tension ebb, my heart rate slowed. Boats were moving, setting and resetting anchors, it went on for hours. I switched on the deck light as a warning to anyone who thought our little corner was empty. Big day tomorrow, there was a party up on Shirley Heights and we planned to hike up. I slammed a quick beer and we dropped back into the bunk.
In the morning we loaded into the dink and motored over to the beach dinghy dock. We swung by the Aussie boat to say hi and thank them them for the heads-up. They were up early and somewhere in town. Probably slept like babies through the night’s excitement.
The Trades continued to blow 30, gusting to 40 kts, we decided to stay and explore English Harbor and Falmouth for a few days. Late that day I made sure to be on the boat as new boats arrived seeking shelter from the strong trades. There I was, standing on the deck, beer in hand, waving off skippers calculating that they had the right scope and assuming we would all swing in unison. Not in this anchorage.
Here’s one example how this plays out (I have been on both sides of this “conversation”):
Year ago this month we were making for the east of Antigua on a rough beat and 30 knot trades looking for relief. English Harbor gave us the relief we were looking for and the promise of a fine dinner ashore with the first mate. The harbor was full of boats including lots of the wooden classics in port for the big event. We retreated to Freeman’s Bay, just inside the gates of the harbor. That anchorage was pretty full to and no one appeared to hauling anchor and going anywhere. We putted about the anchorage looking for a spot in the lee of Shirley Heights ridge and finally found a useable location close to shore next to a small cat that was taking up at least two anchor slots. I found my position and dropped the hook, started paying out chain and observing the veer of the boat. Almost right away a running commentary began on the cat as two guys with beers gestured. I waved and went back to my job. We drifted back on the light east wind and I counted out my 5:1, set a snubber and walked back to the cockpit to finish the set. Mission accomplished I shut down the engine and observed our position, it looked good with plenty of clearance to the boats behind and beside me. The dialogue from the cat had reduced to a refrain; “Yo Mate, Yo Mate, Yo Mate”.
I waved again and asked what’s up. “You don’t have enough room there”, said a guy with an obvious Aussie accent. “Why not, how much scope you have out”, I asked. “5:1, but we have been here all week and the winds do strange things at night, you will swing into us.” I found myself considering the advice of two drunk Aussies with a weeks worth of local knowledge. Yeah Mon. After a few re-positions to see if I could make extra swing room I determined we would be up on the beach if the wind did what they said it would do. And it would happen at 0dark30.
So we moved about the anchorage and I finally settled on a little pocket just inside the reef at the harbor entrance. We set anchor and swung to the wind - 90. More boats arrived during the day and by nightfall many were making the same decision the Aussies had warned me about. Far too close, assuming the Trades would keep things in order all night. Many were anchored into the busy harbor channel edge.
About midnight I was awakened by gusting winds and arrived on deck to find the wind was now swirling about the anchorage. West, then north, west and back to east. We had swung south, close to shore and the jagged remains of a wreck. The mate slept while I sat on deck in the warm Caribbean breeze dreading my next option - a stern anchor. By now boats were pirouetting about their rodes, it was crazy. The heavy displacement boats moved slowly and oriented differently than the small light displacement boats. Catamarans veered wildly and quickly. Deck lights came on and engines fired as crews awakened to the situation. As boats swung close to one another there were efforts to shorten scope and anchors began dragging. Lots of yelling and some sleepy boat handling ensued. A boat in front of us brought up her anchor and quickly drifted back on us. I was holding a aircraft landing lamp lantern and switched it on, sweeping her stern - the skipper was naked. He throttled up and move the boat forward to try his midnight set with a crew scrambling about the deck.
Meanwhile the boat that had come in late and anchored way to close while we were at dinner was veering within 20 feet of our quarter. I flashed the landing light through her cabin ports and the crew scrambled to the cockpit. “You are going to have to move”, I said to a crew that was closer than my own mast. They were not happy. As they hauled anchor and got ready to go I brought up our kedge and assembled the rode, preparing to set a stern anchor. Once they were clear I dropped the tackle into the dink and stepped off the bucking sugar scoop and into the dink. The mate appeared in the companion way, “what are you doing” she asked. “Setting a stern anchor”, I said with some annoyance. The nervous energy of our little corner of paradise was rising. “Why”, she said. “Look around, this place is going nuts”. We both paused to take it in - deck lights, nav lights, clanking chain, half-dressed crew, shouting, revving engines. “Keep and eye on me and pay out the braid as I row this anchor out behind us.”, I said as I tied the bitter end off to the stern cleat.
By now an odd ground swell was sweeping into the harbor and barely laying down as it swept across the dark reef behind me. The sound of breaking waves was unsettling. I took the anchor back 75 feet and threw it over. It was moonless night and as I rowed back to the boat the entire anchorage looked like a parking lot at closing time, boat lights and moving boats. Back on the boat I grabbed the stern anchor rode and hauled the boat to bring the bow into the east. Once I had it hooked in the coral sand I cleated it off and moved to the bow. Bringing up some chain I was able to tension the boat between the two anchors and the boat settled down. We were safe in our little corner of the harbor, tucked in behind the reef.
We sat down in the cockpit and let the nervous tension ebb, my heart rate slowed. Boats were moving, setting and resetting anchors, it went on for hours. I switched on the deck light as a warning to anyone who thought our little corner was empty. Big day tomorrow, there was a party up on Shirley Heights and we planned to hike up. I slammed a quick beer and we dropped back into the bunk.
In the morning we loaded into the dink and motored over to the beach dinghy dock. We swung by the Aussie boat to say hi and thank them them for the heads-up. They were up early and somewhere in town. Probably slept like babies through the night’s excitement.
The Trades continued to blow 30, gusting to 40 kts, we decided to stay and explore English Harbor and Falmouth for a few days. Late that day I made sure to be on the boat as new boats arrived seeking shelter from the strong trades. There I was, standing on the deck, beer in hand, waving off skippers calculating that they had the right scope and assuming we would all swing in unison. Not in this anchorage.
lol much less wind as in NONE, but one night very early(late?) I was anchored in Annapolis off the Naval Academy. Tide change came (no wind at all) and something was bumping- I rushed on deck to find another boat right alongside. was a young woman at the shrouds fending us off, so I went to help. Tide settled down and we were able to go below- That's when we both realized neither of us had a stitch on !!!
Usually there was enough wind so all the boats swung together- not this night
Usually there was enough wind so all the boats swung together- not this night
Last evening, anchored in a favorite little bay that will barely hold five boats, a boat came in and anchored way too close. It is another one of those places where the winds swirl all night long, every night. I was below reading when he anchored and my wife, the nicer of the two of us, mentioned the swirling and got a snide remark that he'd been there before. She came and got me and my thinking was the same as hers; if he stayed there, we would collide sometime in the dark.
I mentioned, as Admiralty Law dictates, that in my opinion as master of my vessel, he was anchored in a position that could cause my vessel harm. I was nice as pie as my charter guests were sitting in the cockpit and could hear everything. He waved his hands so much as to wave me off, so I left it at that. Three hours later, well after dark, I heard him pulling his anchor, so I watched him mess about, getting yelled @ by other boats in the anchorage, when he seemed about to anchor too close to them. Finally, an hour later he'd anchored and the anchorage was still again.
How much easier would it have been.... Oh, one other thing. He was a relatively young Italian and he had two young women with him. Think his stubbornness had anything to do with wanting to seem macho?
I mentioned, as Admiralty Law dictates, that in my opinion as master of my vessel, he was anchored in a position that could cause my vessel harm. I was nice as pie as my charter guests were sitting in the cockpit and could hear everything. He waved his hands so much as to wave me off, so I left it at that. Three hours later, well after dark, I heard him pulling his anchor, so I watched him mess about, getting yelled @ by other boats in the anchorage, when he seemed about to anchor too close to them. Finally, an hour later he'd anchored and the anchorage was still again.
How much easier would it have been.... Oh, one other thing. He was a relatively young Italian and he had two young women with him. Think his stubbornness had anything to do with wanting to seem macho?
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,771
Yes. But as often happens he showed no macho and had to leave the ladies alone while he corrected his mistakes.
Probably had to sleep on deck the rest of the night.
Wouldn't that be poetic justice?Yes. But as often happens he showed no macho and had to leave the ladies alone while he corrected his mistakes.
Probably had to sleep on deck the rest of the night.