There has been lots of info about sailing around at anchor on various boats and our 420 definitely has the problem. After turning broadside to the wind and dragging thru a crowded anchorage during a thunderstorm we upgraded the anchor to a 66 LB Bruce. We are now thinking of an all chain rode. However, I'm also thinking that our best bet may be an anchor riding sail. Rather than spending a lot of trial and error time perhaps there is someone out there with a similar boat, 420, 426, 410, etc that has experience with an anchor riding sail. Obvious questions are how well does it work and how is it rigged? Lacking a backstay complicates things and our in mast furler means the mainsail halyard isn't available although the topping lift should be. Pete Econ
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Riding sail
The 380 I had would swing almost 45 degrees each side of the wind when anchored. I built a riding sail and was absolutely amazed at the improvement. The swing with the riding sail was under 5 degrees. I sewed a 3/8 inch rope into the leech of the sail with sufficient length at each end to attach the bottom of the rope to the end of the boom and the top of rope to the topping lift. I sewed another 3/8 inch rope to the (heavily reinforced) tack of the sail and simply pulled it foreward around the mast and tied it off. I will NEVER anchor without a riding sail again. It cost less than $100 for the Sunbrella and all of the rope and fittings. The value of the sleep I got with the riding sail was priceless. Yes, if you are looking closely, that IS a masthead rig Hunter. It was a special design built to get under the 50 foot bridges in the ICW.
The 380 I had would swing almost 45 degrees each side of the wind when anchored. I built a riding sail and was absolutely amazed at the improvement. The swing with the riding sail was under 5 degrees. I sewed a 3/8 inch rope into the leech of the sail with sufficient length at each end to attach the bottom of the rope to the end of the boom and the top of rope to the topping lift. I sewed another 3/8 inch rope to the (heavily reinforced) tack of the sail and simply pulled it foreward around the mast and tied it off. I will NEVER anchor without a riding sail again. It cost less than $100 for the Sunbrella and all of the rope and fittings. The value of the sleep I got with the riding sail was priceless. Yes, if you are looking closely, that IS a masthead rig Hunter. It was a special design built to get under the 50 foot bridges in the ICW.
all chain rode for anchor sailing
Larry, I have a 410 and found that changing to an all chain rode made a dramatic difference in degree of anchor sailing. I have an anchor riding sail but rarely use it since going to all chain. One thing less to deploy and take in. Also it's not fun having an anchor sail out if an unexpected big blow comes through at night. Fair winds, Chris Webb
Larry, I have a 410 and found that changing to an all chain rode made a dramatic difference in degree of anchor sailing. I have an anchor riding sail but rarely use it since going to all chain. One thing less to deploy and take in. Also it's not fun having an anchor sail out if an unexpected big blow comes through at night. Fair winds, Chris Webb
Pete,
I have an '01 420. I took off the ground tackle that was delivered w/ the boat and replaced it w/ a 44lb Spade anchor and 250' of 5/16 BBB all chain rode. They have proved to be an excellent combination. I anchor frequently in the Ches. Bay, along the ICW, and in the Fla. Keys. (BTW, Larry, the bridges along the ICW are 65', except one in Miami). With the all chain rode, I have never felt a need for a riding sail; and I have almost never dragged. (If there is a problem with the boat moving around the anchor rode, it's current opposing winds that causes more of a problem than just winds) Before you go to the trouble of making a riding sail, put an all chain rode on. You may be surprised at how much better the boat behaves at anchor, and how much more securely you are anchored. BTW, IMHO, my 44lb Spade anchor holds as well as any anchor out there; even including much heaver ones, like your 66lb Bruce. See "Practical Sailor's" 3 articles in 2000-2001, where they evaluated many different anchors in a variety of conditions, etc.
I have an '01 420. I took off the ground tackle that was delivered w/ the boat and replaced it w/ a 44lb Spade anchor and 250' of 5/16 BBB all chain rode. They have proved to be an excellent combination. I anchor frequently in the Ches. Bay, along the ICW, and in the Fla. Keys. (BTW, Larry, the bridges along the ICW are 65', except one in Miami). With the all chain rode, I have never felt a need for a riding sail; and I have almost never dragged. (If there is a problem with the boat moving around the anchor rode, it's current opposing winds that causes more of a problem than just winds) Before you go to the trouble of making a riding sail, put an all chain rode on. You may be surprised at how much better the boat behaves at anchor, and how much more securely you are anchored. BTW, IMHO, my 44lb Spade anchor holds as well as any anchor out there; even including much heaver ones, like your 66lb Bruce. See "Practical Sailor's" 3 articles in 2000-2001, where they evaluated many different anchors in a variety of conditions, etc.
all chain
I went to an all-chain rode on my 410 and was pleased that it helped alleviate anchor sailing. That said, it should be pointed out that it does not eliminate anchor sailing, especially in winds over 20 knots. Curiously, I've found that my boom tent serves as a fairly effective anchor sail.
I went to an all-chain rode on my 410 and was pleased that it helped alleviate anchor sailing. That said, it should be pointed out that it does not eliminate anchor sailing, especially in winds over 20 knots. Curiously, I've found that my boom tent serves as a fairly effective anchor sail.
Tried it All
I have an '02 356 and tried it all: anchor riding sail, all chain rode, sentinel and even a bridle. All of the techniques seem to help but nothing eliminated the problem completely. It must be related to the large freeboard in the bow (windage) and the shape of the keel. The bridle worked best with a strong steady wind but was not very effective in a varying wind.
I have an '02 356 and tried it all: anchor riding sail, all chain rode, sentinel and even a bridle. All of the techniques seem to help but nothing eliminated the problem completely. It must be related to the large freeboard in the bow (windage) and the shape of the keel. The bridle worked best with a strong steady wind but was not very effective in a varying wind.
Fortress FX for Mud
We have a Hunter 460 and often dragged with the stock ancor (30 feet chain and 46 lb Delta). Went to 100 feet of chain and a Fortress FX-37 set at 40 degrees for mud. Its great but hard to break free after a storm. Need to tighten as much as possible and use boats engine to drag anchor free. Also added a salt water washdown pump to deal with the mud and clams on the anchor. Sleep much better with this rig than before.
We have a Hunter 460 and often dragged with the stock ancor (30 feet chain and 46 lb Delta). Went to 100 feet of chain and a Fortress FX-37 set at 40 degrees for mud. Its great but hard to break free after a storm. Need to tighten as much as possible and use boats engine to drag anchor free. Also added a salt water washdown pump to deal with the mud and clams on the anchor. Sleep much better with this rig than before.
ICW Bridges for Buck
You won't find that to be the case on the west coast, thru Okachobee, and the panhandle of Florida. The bridge at Destin is under 49 feet even though the charts say it is 50 feet.
You won't find that to be the case on the west coast, thru Okachobee, and the panhandle of Florida. The bridge at Destin is under 49 feet even though the charts say it is 50 feet.
Charts have Been Changed Larry
It now says 49 feet for the Destin Pass but it is probably closer to 48 or even 47 feet.
It now says 49 feet for the Destin Pass but it is probably closer to 48 or even 47 feet.
a neat trick
Trt this one it works alot better that you would think. deploy a sea anchor off the bow while at anchor. a large bucket with holes in it will work fairly well if you dont tear the handles off. but it does reduce the swing! this usually requires a weight or small anchor to keep it in the water
Trt this one it works alot better that you would think. deploy a sea anchor off the bow while at anchor. a large bucket with holes in it will work fairly well if you dont tear the handles off. but it does reduce the swing! this usually requires a weight or small anchor to keep it in the water
Free Ride
Like Brian I also have an 2002 356. I use an all chain rode and cannot keep it from anchor sailing. With the all chain rode it dosen't drag but you get a free ride back and forth in any wind over 10 knots
Like Brian I also have an 2002 356. I use an all chain rode and cannot keep it from anchor sailing. With the all chain rode it dosen't drag but you get a free ride back and forth in any wind over 10 knots
Larry, that bridge is the reason I gave up trying
to get to Houston to ship our boat home to Washington St. I decided in Ft. Lauderdale that that is why God invented the 18 wheeler.
to get to Houston to ship our boat home to Washington St. I decided in Ft. Lauderdale that that is why God invented the 18 wheeler.
Try a Bahamian Moor
Try a bahamian moor--two anchors off the bow at 30 degrees to each other. This roughly locks the bow into place and though the boat will still swing it will swing around its own bow, not the anchor, which is hardlt a problem anywhere. I have used it many times and it works wonders even without all-chain rode. This the preferred anchor configuration if you are expecting a blow or a wind shift, too. Ivan Bekey H356 "Victoria"
Try a bahamian moor--two anchors off the bow at 30 degrees to each other. This roughly locks the bow into place and though the boat will still swing it will swing around its own bow, not the anchor, which is hardlt a problem anywhere. I have used it many times and it works wonders even without all-chain rode. This the preferred anchor configuration if you are expecting a blow or a wind shift, too. Ivan Bekey H356 "Victoria"
Anyone tried this...
deploying an stern anchor? I imagine this works best when the wind direction is predictable.
deploying an stern anchor? I imagine this works best when the wind direction is predictable.
Ivan, not only that but
it is the prefered method, period. I love it, the best thing to do for a good nights sleep except, you know what. *x
it is the prefered method, period. I love it, the best thing to do for a good nights sleep except, you know what. *x
I agree with Ivan (and Fred)
The other thoughts are nice but each has it's downside. 1) anchor sails are extra windage that you just don’t want up if the wind increases. 2) sea anchor requires a pretty good current to keep it deployed. 3) lots of chain rode is just plain too heavy, although it works. 4) a slight modification on the Bahamian moor though, the second anchor can be a very light FX-7 Fortress aluminum. Fantastic holding power and easy to set and retrieve
The other thoughts are nice but each has it's downside. 1) anchor sails are extra windage that you just don’t want up if the wind increases. 2) sea anchor requires a pretty good current to keep it deployed. 3) lots of chain rode is just plain too heavy, although it works. 4) a slight modification on the Bahamian moor though, the second anchor can be a very light FX-7 Fortress aluminum. Fantastic holding power and easy to set and retrieve
It's great to see everyone agree about the
virtues of a Bahamian moor. I personally am also a fan of that technique. However, my understanding has always been that in order for a dual bow anchor arrangement to be called a Bahamian moor the angle between the two anchor rodes has to be 180 degrees. Who cares? (one might well ask) The only reason to be strict with names and definitions is to avoid potentially costly misunderstandings between sailors. Have fun Flying Dutchman
virtues of a Bahamian moor. I personally am also a fan of that technique. However, my understanding has always been that in order for a dual bow anchor arrangement to be called a Bahamian moor the angle between the two anchor rodes has to be 180 degrees. Who cares? (one might well ask) The only reason to be strict with names and definitions is to avoid potentially costly misunderstandings between sailors. Have fun Flying Dutchman
Henk, I don't think us guys that use it care
It all depends where you lay down your rode. 180 degrees is great for a tidal flow area and a lot less would be fine for a snug cove. Just get two anchors out there a reasonable distance apart. And a stern line to shore is nirvana.
It all depends where you lay down your rode. 180 degrees is great for a tidal flow area and a lot less would be fine for a snug cove. Just get two anchors out there a reasonable distance apart. And a stern line to shore is nirvana.
dont forget the other guy
Please remember when you anchor both ends that the guys around you may not have. You dont swing they swing. I prefer to be alone but now that all my secret mooring areas are on the net its a problem.
Please remember when you anchor both ends that the guys around you may not have. You dont swing they swing. I prefer to be alone but now that all my secret mooring areas are on the net its a problem.
Part of the problem with posting on a forum is
saying things like Ed just said. You just don't know who your talking to or just how much they know about the subject. Kinda like the comment Ed just made.
saying things like Ed just said. You just don't know who your talking to or just how much they know about the subject. Kinda like the comment Ed just made.
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