Anchor rode problems cause near sinking

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Ken Honeycutt

Ken Honeycutt

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Dec 27, 2005
500
Hunter 36 Chicago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZZYHx_IdCc

Ouch!

Per the Great Lakes Sailor yahoo message board

"This is a very experienced sailor, his wife, and dog that ran into a problem.
The root cause of the problem seems to be due to the anchor chain
portion of the rode not fitting into a locker in a secure manner. The
chain kind of rolled/slid off of the deck and then pulled the line out
of the locker. You can figure out what happens next as the captain saw a
small tear in the sail and decided it is time to motor the rest of the
way. His extensive training and experience no doubt played a pivotal
role in making all come out well."
 
Don12364

Don12364

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Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
Ken,
Thanks for the clip. I may have missed it in the commentary but where was the 3-5 gals per minute of water coming in from? Or what caused the leak?
Also, though only a small boat, the bilge pumping arrangements looked completely inadequate with a pump which needed two hands to operate it and another to hold the outlet hose over the side.
 
Ken Honeycutt

Ken Honeycutt

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Dec 27, 2005
500
Hunter 36 Chicago
I couldn't find any reference in the video either as to where the water was coming in. If you look at the last part of the video after the boat is hauled, it looks like there is lot of water coming out from just ahead of the shaft strut, possibly around where the shaft enters the hull. I agree about the pump - looks like the cheapo hand pump that W.M. sells. I use one to dry out my bilge but would never count on it to pump 3-5 gals a minute in an emergency.
 
K

Kaibleu

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Mar 16, 2009
4
Ranger 30 Lake Mead
If you look at the closeup shot of the prop you can see where the leak is from and why it was caused.
Here's my theory...
The rode wrapped around the prop has it's tension pulling FORWARD and DOWN since the other end of the rode seems to be securely attached on the bow. The force pulling down and forward pulled the prop shaft down in the shaft log and cracked or holed the hull where it enters.
 

Attachments

J

jimgreen

Leak

The engine going forward when it cinched in the line, pulled the shaft and strut and broke the hull where the strut mounts to the hull. He's lucky it didn't tear the strut completely out. Without some real quick damage control that would have sunk her good.

Any boat with an inboard auxillary that will charge batteries should have, at the minimum, a 500GPH electric bilge pump.

I once saw a guy foul a prop in a steel cable that roped off a diving area. He gunned the engine and threw it into gear. It ripped the strut right out of the bottom sideways and the boat was boat sunk right in front of our eyes. It was a beautiful twin engine 46 foot sportfisher. The guys climbed up onto the tuna tower and were lifted off by the harbor patrol. Sad!
 
Prime Time

Prime Time

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Sep 25, 2008
544
Bristol 43.3 Perth Amboy
Structural Integrity of Hull

I am not too impressed with a hull that would crack just by fouling the prop under power!
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Prime Time said:
I am not too impressed with a hull that would crack just by fouling the prop under power!
Click to expand
Maybe I can help you be impressed! Ft lbs time rpm equals hp. Assuming 20 hp at 2000 rpm.
One hp equals 550 ft lbs per second. Therefore 20 hp equals 11000 foot pounds per second. 2000rpm equals about 33 revolutions per second so 11000 divided by 33 equals about 333 pounds pull on a 24 inch daimeter wheel but on a one inch shaft it will come out a bit over 4000 pounds of pull on the anchor rode that wraped around the propellor shaft. If two tons of pull on the strut won't tear the strut loose then I am not sure what will.
 
Franklin

Franklin

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Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
jimgreen said:
Any boat with an inboard auxillary that will charge batteries should have, at the minimum, a 500GPH electric bilge pump.
Click to expand
I think all boats need at least 3,000 GPH: one a 1,000 gph primary with a 2,000 gph secondary hooked up with an alarm. I truely think this should be a coast guard regulation.

Even if the boat doesn't have a way to charge the batteries, those pumps should be able to keep up with a modest leak like this for a few hours while the leak is found (can't find a leak if it's covered) and a temporary fix put in place. Even just holding a towel over it is a lot better than manually pumping, because you will get tired quickly pumping (been there, done that).

Me, I got a 2,000 gph primary and a 3,700 gph secondary and wish I could have more and just might someday :) Now that comes out to 95 gpm, but realistically, it's about 30-40 gpm. I'm ok with that as it will cover 4 of my thru-hulls wide open and yes, I tested it.

Total cost: $300....cheap insurance.
 
Franklin

Franklin

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Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
oh yeah, a good diaphram manual pump with 3" hose attached to the boat in the cockpit should also be a requirement for all boats. Those things can pump a lot of water too and the person at the helm can do it. I have one and have been impressed with it when I tested it. So much so that I'd also like to put one inside the cabin too.

They say a scared man with a bucket can dispell more water faster then a manual pump, but that all depends on how deep it is. If it's a foot above the floorboards then yeah because you can stand next to the companionway and just dump into the cockpit, but if you are trying to keep the water level low and are trying to fish water out of the bildge, then that's not necessarly the case and there is a lot of wasted motion which will tire you out quickly. I'm in good shape but with me using a 2 quart pan fishing in the bildge as fast as I can wore me out in about 20 minutes...when on for another 25 minutes before I realized I didn't have much left and needed to find a better solution. I think I dumped about 10 gallons a minute with that pan.

As for those West Marine tube pumps, yeah, they are only good for getting the bottom bit out that the other pumps can't get.
 
rpwillia

rpwillia

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Sep 29, 2008
1,936
Catalina 310 #185 Quantico
I have more questions

I have wrapped lines around my prop a few times. One reason I have a line cutter on it. Normally it just stalls the engine. Hard to imagine there wasn't some other reason for this.

Roger, Could you chime in? I would like to hear your $0.02.

What kind of boat was it anyway? It looked pretty small. My 310 has a 25HP diesel, so I can't imagine this was much bigger.
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
rpwillia said:
I have wrapped lines around my prop a few times. One reason I have a line cutter on it. Normally it just stalls the engine. Hard to imagine there wasn't some other reason for this.

Roger, Could you chime in? I would like to hear your $0.02.

What kind of boat was it anyway? It looked pretty small. My 310 has a 25HP diesel, so I can't imagine this was much bigger.
Click to expand
Much would depend upon how the line was restrained and how much shaft was exposed.
With a free line it could wrap around the shaft and build a ball of line of such size as the friction would load the engine to the point of stalling. But if either end of the line was restrained then the load could build until either the line broke or something else did. Consider if the anchor had set when the rode fouled the prop with the boat moving at speed. Now the strut serves as the cleat to hold the boat against the anchor and the engine still pulls on the rode.
 
MrBee

MrBee

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Dec 30, 2008
425
Irwin 34 Citation Middle River, Md.
Some good stufff to think about here .

The Anchor was still on the bow where it is tied down, The chain was not secure and that fell over the side with the weight then pulling the Rode out of the hole and out of the Anchor locker and over the side. Tie down the anchor and don't forget to tie off the Rode also.

I'm sure the Prop stopping wasn't very gradual , Line was being wound up with a slight slowing then when it got to the end and became taught....That sudden stop caused the crack / brake .

I did wonder why there "Appears" to be no Electric bilge pump working !!

Is the boat a Com-pac , or a small IP ? Looks like a nice boat.

We do tie / cleat off our Rode so that can't happen but this is a nice reminder of what can happen, just unfortunet that we learn or are reminded by mistakes or accident.

Bilge pumps... I have been wanting to change the way mine are set. Read before about placing a small pump on at the lowest point, one that will keep the water down to almost nothing, then make a shelf just above that to place the high volume pump, with the alarm. Such as Franklin said.
Also, we do have a manualy operated gusher that can be reached from the Helm but have not tried it since buying the boat in May this year...guess it's time to check it out !!

Brian
 
D

Drew240

And by the way...

..."His extensive training and experience no doubt played a pivotal
role in making all come out well."

Not to be snarky, but extensive training and experience usually preclude being underway with a line in the water, attached to your own vessel, in relative calm and daylight.
 
shemandr

shemandr

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Jan 1, 2006
7,476
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
I'm interested in those 1,000 and 2,000 GPH pumps. I look on the Defender site and found nothing near that capacity. Where do you get them? I assume they are 12V. They must draw a lot of amps. Do you have them permenantly mounted or are they movable?
 
Roger Long

Roger Long

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Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
rpwillia said:
Roger, Could you chime in? I would like to hear your $0.02.
Click to expand
Ever noticed how people these things happen to are almost always "very experienced"?

A friend of mine, prior to becoming "very experienced", had a dock line coiled on the after deck go over the side and into the prop. It wrapped around the shaft in a neat spiral and the leverage of it filling up the space between the prop and strut created enough force to break the adapter plate that mounted the transmission to the flywheel housing and pull the transmission right off the engine.

From the video, I would guess that the engine was on flexible mounts and pulled back far enough that the coupling pressed on the flexible stuffing box or shaft seal and split the hose or bellows. Might have broken his engine mounts as well.
 
Chris Burti

Chris Burti

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Dec 2, 2003
480
Catalina C-320 Washington, NC
Going out the first time, you become 'experienced'.

Roger Long said:
Ever noticed how people these things happen to are almost always "very experienced"?
Click to expand
Will Rogers: "Good judgement comes from experience; and experience, well, that comes from bad judgement."
 
MrBee

MrBee

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Dec 30, 2008
425
Irwin 34 Citation Middle River, Md.
Shemandr...

shemandr said:
I'm interested in those 1,000 and 2,000 GPH pumps. I look on the Defender site and found nothing near that capacity. Where do you get them? I assume they are 12V. They must draw a lot of amps. Do you have them permenantly mounted or are they movable?
Click to expand

Not sure why you couldn't find them, just go to Defenders home, click on "Plumbing", click on "Pumps", click on "Bilge Pumps", click on "Rule"..... there they are..

Brian
 
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