Anchor Rode - Double braid vs 3 strand

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NYSail

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Jan 6, 2006
3,136
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
Hello all.... More questions as I continue outfitting

Getting new anchor rode and considering 5/8 double braid. It has a breaking strength of 14,800lbs vs 3 strand at 11,133lbs. I dont see double braid that often as an anchor rode... what are the pros / cons not considering the cost difference.

I am going to be connecting this to 3/8 chain (50 ft) and a 35# Mason Supreme.

Thanks again....
Greg
 

Phil Herring

Alien
Mar 25, 1997
4,922
- - Bainbridge Island
Double braid doesn't stretch as much, and you want stretch in an anchor rode. It helps keep your anchor set when under stress.
 
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
Big Phil is correct

Added stretch eliminates stress at all points in the entire system, and if things get a little snotty out will more than make up for the difference in strength. Not to mention a somewhat more comfortable ride.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
It actually stretches slightly more if you use NovaBraid's Nova Gold. I have been using this now for about 6 years and it performs flawlessly, stretches just the right amount and does not hockle like a three strand does. NovaBraid in Nova Scotia is the onlky company making a double braid to these specs that I know of. Ours has held up a lot better than our Brait and NER three strand ever did. See the link below..

Anchor Rode Choices (LINK)
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
i have seen many boats break loose from moorings when using double braid--it just snaps. use 3 strand, please.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
i have seen many boats break loose from moorings when using double braid--it just snaps. use 3 strand, please.
You need to use the right double braid for the job. Perhaps the best and strongest mooring pendants made today are a double braid made by Yale Cordage and called Yale Polydyne Pendants.. Failures of Yale pendants in storms here in Falmouth, ME, with over 1100 moored vessels, has been next to nil yet three strand, lots of failures. Like the one below on my neighbors boat. In ten years monitoring Falmouth storms I have yet to see a Yale Polydyne pendant failure and they've bee put through the ringer..





You could not pay me enough to replace my Yale Polydyne pendants (double braid - polyester cover nylon core) with three strand. Yale does LOTS of destructive testing of used pendants and they've yet to see any used three strand fail in the test jig at anywhere close to used Yale Polydyne. I have discussed this at length with one of the owners of Yale Cordage as he's a member of our club.

I am actually working with him to get some custom Spectra storm pendants made. They would be short and only used to pass through the bow chocks where the Polydyne pendants would then take up the duty with their stretch characteristics. The Spectra is very highly abrasion resistant and they would consist of a Spectra core and Spectra chafe sleeve these are about as close to chain in abrasion resistance as you can get..

This is what only 40 knots does to our mooring field.. Three strand, no way, not for our boat....
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
my 3 strand did 90+kts regularly without fail, whereas the double braid lines from mooring co snapped in 41 kts and we watched 3 boats leave their moorings one single night. my double braid mooring lines were 1 1/4 and 1 inch --i used 2, and longer than the prescribed ones given by mooring co for steep fees. my 3strand was 3/4 in nylon and i am still able to use those for other jobs now.
maine-- i would love to see how this system you are making holds up-- we get a lot of high wind stuff here in mazatlan, and i think i will mebbe need some reinforcement of lines by sept......
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,577
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
Rode vs. Pendant

MaineSail, why are the requirements for a pendant anything like a rode?
 

CarlN

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Jan 4, 2009
603
Ketch 55 Bristol, RI
This is an area where there's a lot of opinion based on very little testing.

There's a lot of cheap "no name" anchor line out there - both three strand and braid. The major manufacturers not only use better quality raw materials but they add lubricants that reduce internal strength and increases "wet strength" - Nylon rope loses 10-20% of it's strength when wet.

The major manufacturers (New England Ropes, Yale, Samson) all seem to agree that their double braid nylon is stronger than their 3 strand nylon. In commercial use, 3 strand has pretty much gone away. Tug towing hawsers (when not steel) are always braid these days.

And too much stretch can be as bad as not enough. A 150 ft anchor line can stretch 30 or more feet letting the bow fall way off. As the boat gets sideways it increases the load on the whole anchor system.

A little off topic, but Steve Dashew wrote an interesting piece when he decided that polyester was a better anchor line than nylon. He makes some pretty good arguments:

http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/dashew-right-rode.pdf

Carl
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
MaineSail, why are the requirements for a pendant anything like a rode?
They are similar but don't have the same needs. A mooring pendant goes over the chock in the same place for months or years on end while an anchor rode may only ever sit on the chock in that location a few times over its life. In this regard chafe protection is one of the most important aspects of a mooring pendant. It must also be stretchy and have a tight angled braid which allows for this stretch. Most moorings are all chain at a 2:1-3:1 scope ratio and the pendants 12-20 feet long, though most should be longer. You are dependent upon the stretch in that 12 - 20 feet of line to prevent shock loading of your deck, cleats and chocks. So pendants need to be highly abrasion resistant, stretchy, resistant to UV, a double braid helps protect the inner core in this regard, and strong.

For anchoring the idea that you "must" use three strand in a rope rode, due to its stretch, is somewhat misleading as their are now a number of options such as Brait, mega plait and Nova Gold as well as some others that equal or have greater stretch characteristics and also flake better and don't hockle or unlay.. I personally feel that the stretch characteristics of many "anchor specific" rodes is a little too much when used in an all rope situation so finding the right combination of rope to chain was the best middle ground for us..

Folks have anchored successfully using all chain and a 15 +/- foot snubbers for years & years on end. No matter how stretchy your snubber is 6-10% of 15 feet is not a hell of a lot of stretch. NER 5/8" three strand stretches about 6% at 10% of tensile strength. 6% of 12,200 is over 1200 pounds of holding power. That is damn near hurricane strength and the chain would be drawn near bar tight and the snubber would stretch less than a foot. So is all that stretch absolutely necessary, when anchoring with basically no stretch, has been done for years and years and years by boaters who use all chain and relatively short snubbers? In storm conditions, where you really need your system to perform, any caternary is effectively diminished to a point of no impact on the system, in both chain and rope rodes.

Contrast that to the guy who has 200 feet of three strand rope rode in that same hurricane. His rode at 6% stretch would be stretching about 12 feet! Both situations work but one guy has less than a foot of stretch and one guy has 12 feet. I would suspect that the guy with 12 feet of stretch would have some rebound and would wind up sideways to the wind more so than the guy with less stretch.

As has been noted not all three strands are created equal and some of them a pure junk so you need to be careful. Double braids are the same and also have lots of quality variables. The big guys like Yale, Samson, NER and Nova are all reputable.

As for mooring pendants the outer jacket on a double braided line is mostly superficial and can serve to protect the inner core of the line from both UV and abrasion which is where the strength is. Good mooring pendants are not a nylon cover over a nylon core they are a polyester jacket over a nylon core. Don't expect to find this polyester/nylon double braid at your local chandlery on a roll. Don't trust your local mooring installer to buy and install the appropriate double braid for the job. If you want the right pendants ask for Yale Polydyne by name. These are made only by Yale and each pendant has a serial number. They take this stuff very seriously. Many installers will buy what ever they can get the cheapest and will ignore stretch and construction characteristics.

Polyester is significantly more abrasion resistant than nylon and MIT specifically studied this a number of years ago as related to mooring pendants. Three strand has no protective outer jacket, no polyester jacket and relies on the user to install chafe gear which is often of the incorrect type. Due to this any chock abrasion is directly impacting the strength of the rope where a double braid can have some jacket wear and still be at or near full rated strength.

The biggest problem with pendants is heat. Nylon begins to lose considerable strength above about 300F. For this reason chafe gear that breathes and is NOT water proof is better suited than leather, fire hose or rubber tubing. I have seen a number of solid hard spots in nylon pendants after storms. These hard spots are brittle and lead to failure far faster. With a three strand line this is harder to detect as the entire line is rather hard and stiff after use or after a storm. A good double braid can be kneaded between your fingers along it's length, especially where it went over the chocks, and inspected for hard lumps or hard spots and retired if necessary. Because of the nature of the braid inside a double braided line identifying hard spots is much easier. I do this after every storm and it takes about 5 minutes.

This was a hard spot I detected after a Nor' Easter her in Falmouth, ME.

I needed to really poke at it to tell as it is very tough to see visually. That entire lay is toast yet I can almost guarantee the owner would have never identified it so I left a note and marked it with a Sharpie marker...

When these lumps occur in the middle of the line it is all but impossible to tell.



My findings after studying mooring failures for a good part of my adult life.

#1 - 2 pendants of un-equal length
#2 - Chafe protection should be woven type
#3 - The longer the better. A steep angle off the chock leads to increased wear and heat.
#4 - Use a swivel
#5 - REMOVE YOUR ANCHOR IN A STORM

I actually got to capture this mooring pendant failure ON FILM!!!

Both Pendants Still Intact:


And DOWN:


And up & SNAP!


Easier to see the snapped pendant in this shot:
 
Jan 27, 2008
3,086
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
Mainsail makes a good point, I went through a hurricane on a mooring and afterward there were clear signs of the nylon pennant actually melted from the friction. If you look at the recommendation for a series drogue it uses double braid and this is a situation where you do want some stretch as loading along the cones changes and the boat is subject to all kinds of crazy shock loading trying to pitchpole you.
What I believe is more important is redundancy, in an anchoring situation in storm conditions or worse more than one anchor should be well set, ideally three. For a mooring there should always be a backup pennant slightly longer so if the main one fails you stay connected. The other problem with moorings of course is storm surge as scope is often insufficient as they try to pack too many boats in a given area. A storm surge of 15 feet requires 105 feet of extra scope from the original amount. Not many moorings can accomodate this.
 
May 20, 2004
151
C&C 26 Ghost Lake, Alberta
On my mooring I use double braid. I have 2 with snubbers attached to a "D" shackle bolted to the stem. I also have a backup through the buoy and to a cleat on deck - always left slack.
in my anchor locker I have 3 strand.
 
Apr 15, 2009
302
C&C 30 Annapolis
Anchor windlasses with combination rope chain gypsy's tend to grab and hold the three stand better than they do double braid.
 
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