An A-Frame Question

[...3TacksontheWater]

After confirming that I should no longer raise and lower the mast without help I turned to the C-22 Tech Manual and cobbled together Dick King's write up of George Gilson's A-Frame. I did modify the adapters for the lower eyebolt to match Jim's suggestions for an articulating connector:

The mast is currently up so, the first test of the A-Frame will be lowering the mast. Since I've never used an A-Frame, is there anything that I need to watch for or, is this going to be as simple as the various videos make it out to be?

A second question is that even with a "mast up" (in my case the Rudder Craft version) getting the mast up all the way up is a bear. How low can you have the mast above the transom and still be able to raise the mast using the A-Frame? Thank you in advance for your suggestions.

George

 

[Daveinet]

My opinion is this is WAAAY over complicated. When you arrive at the ramp, you need a very simple quick easy way to get the mast up. I've pulled up to the doc and had my boat ready to back into the water before the guy next to me even had his mast ready to raise.
First off, forget the rigging mess to the baby stays. Install a couple of U-bolts to your cabin roof. These should be as wide as possible for stability. They should be in line with the pivot point of the mast step. Install quick disconnects on your baby stays, so they can quickly positioned to the U-bolts. I use a single gin pole with cables for stability that also clip to the same U-bolts. The forestay lays across the top of the gin pole. I use the main sheet and fiddle blocks to attach between the forestay and its fastening point on the bow. Using the main sheet and fiddle blocks means I can stop at any point and untangle lines that may catch on something. Once the mast is up as far as the main sheet will raise it, it is stable enough to release the baby stays and cleat them to their normal position. I use the line for raising the jib to raise the mast the final few inches (cleated to another bracket on the bow). Install the forestay and we are good install the boom and sails. It shouldn't take more than ten minutes to have the mast from transport position to sailing position. Develope a routine, so you don't forget anything, and are minimizing the number of times you have to go from inside the cabin to get stuff, to the bow to attach.

To answer your last question, I have made a PVC pipe with a V-wheel to cradle the mast. This pipe sits on the rudder and is held in place by tie straps. Standing on the transom, the mast rests as about head height. This is the position for raising the mast as well as the transport position. I do not see the need to have the mast down and level for transport. Its not hurting anything. Again, reduce the number of steps required to get you from transport to sailing. (I guess I should clarify, yes the base of the mast is run forward for transport, but the height at the transom is the same.)

 

[morbidfollower]

I just use a remote controlled winch on my trailer hitch to help raise the mast. Easiest method by far, I stand on the cabin top and just keep it straight as I run it up.

 

[JoeWhite]

Here is my solution on my H25 1984.

Hunter-25.5-1984 | Catalina 36 MKII Album | Sail La Vie Home

mei1970.org

Visit this album and view the images. It is self explanatory and includes a diagram.
I hope this helps.

 

[...3TacksontheWater]

Thank you all for your replies.

Full disclosure - this is my second Catalina 22. My first, was a 1974 with the lighter mast and forty-six years ago, raising and lowering the mast was no problem. Mast ups and various crutches did not exist yet. It was a throw cushion on the bow pulpit and the coachhouse for towing the boat. Today, I’m twice the age that I was in 1978 and raising the mast of a second generation C-22 unassisted is unsafe and foolhardy. Keeping it simple is desirable but keeping it safe is paramount.

Daveinet:

I gather that what you’re describing for how far the mast is off of the transom is about 3 +/- feet. I stand 6” 4” tall and when I look up with the mast on the mast up roller, I am wondering how high it can go when I extend the mast crutch to its highest position. It’s a struggle for me to get the mast up to the highest position. It would definitely be easier if I can let the winch do more of the work and only raise the mast three (3) or four (4) feet above the transom. I also would not want to trailer the boat with the mast as high as possible due to the fact that the “mast crutch” is not fixed and pivots in the gudgeons. Thoughts?

morbidfollower: What winch are you using and is it a direct replacement on the trailer for the supplied winch? I have as four pin adapter to my seven pin plug on the vehicle. How have you wired your winch and is it wired separately from your trailer? I do like the idea of being able to monitor and correct raising and lowering issues from anywhere on or near the boat.

JoeWhite: I loved the album. Great pictures. I think my pivot point on the bridle is just a tiny bit behind the pivot point bolt. Do you think I can get away with this or do I need to redo the bridles? If it helps good or bad, the bridles I’ve made should match each other and even though “Jim’s Little Boat” video states the the stanchions are not aligned, on the 1988 models, the toe rails have fixed locations for the stanchions so everything should be aligned.

Thank you all for your help!

George

 

[morbidfollower]

morbidfollower: What winch are you using and is it a direct replacement on the trailer for the supplied winch? I have as four pin adapter to my seven pin plug on the vehicle. How have you wired your winch and is it wired separately from your trailer? I do like the idea of being able to monitor and correct raising and lowering issues from anywhere on or near the boat.



I use the dinghy trolling motor battery (12v Deep cycle) in the bed of my truck when I run the winch. It's a standalone winch I found on amazon. Has a remote to run it in and out. The trailer hitch mount I also got on amazon. rated for 5000lbs. I also use this same setup to retrieve my dingy's out of the water even tho they only weigh a couple hundred pounds. Works great for the Catalina 22 mast Here is a picture of the setup:

 

[Gene Neill]

I would really love to see how exactly you do that, @morbidfollower. At what sort of angle is the winch pulling on the stick, at the beginning of the lift?

It's something I have thought about.

 

[morbidfollower]

I would really love to see how exactly you do that, @morbidfollower. At what sort of angle is the winch pulling on the stick, at the beginning of the lift?

It's something I have thought about.

Im pulling the boat out of the marina in a couple weeks, I'll try to film the process. I used to have the wife use the trailer winch which was at a pretty tough angle, I found it better with this hitch location and it is smooth as butter. I do have the tongue extension in place which helps, but I use it anyways so I don't bury my truck.

 

[Daveinet]

I gather that what you’re describing for how far the mast is off of the transom is about 3 +/- feet. I stand 6” 4” tall and when I look up with the mast on the mast up roller, I am wondering how high it can go when I extend the mast crutch to its highest position. It’s a struggle for me to get the mast up to the highest position. It would definitely be easier if I can let the winch do more of the work and only raise the mast three (3) or four (4) feet above the transom. I also would not want to trailer the boat with the mast as high as possible due to the fact that the “mast crutch” is not fixed and pivots in the gudgeons. Thoughts?
...

Here is a photo of someone who transports the mast on the crutch in the ready to raise height.

This does add an extra step, as you would need to install the rudder afterword. I would try to come up with a mast crutch that can sit on the transom - something U-shaped. Fore/aft stability provided by the stern rail. That doesn't have to be strong, as when under transport, the mast will hold it fore/aft. Athwartship stability can be provided by straps. This also holds the crutch down over the edge of the transom.
For mine, I screwed a couple of handles near the top. This gives me points to connect the straps. It also makes it easier to handle lifting it on and off. It also gives me a point to strap the mast down. This is a picture of mine. It is difficult to see the straps that hold the crutch down into place.

 

[JoeWhite]

It is not an exact science. The lines on the left and right hand side are to prevent the mast from swinging out of control. I used dock lines as they are designed to stretch. The pivoted point should be in line with the mast pin at the bottom of the mast. If it is a bit off, it will work just fine.

 

[...3TacksontheWater]

Thank you all for your replies. We lowerd the mast today. It was easy peasy, the A-Frame and trailer mounted winch worked as advertised. The mast did swing to port a bit on the way down (I was not manning the winch) so we used the backstay to get ‘er back in line with the ‘mast up’ crutch and tomorrow I get to tidy everything up for travel and, weather permitting head to the lake. Based on how smoothly the mast came down, I expect (hope) that the mast raising will be just as easy. I am still a bit confuddled as to why the mast swung to port on the way down, my bridles and “baby stays” should have prevented that from happening. While on the “hard” the boat has always felt straight and level and perhaps I simply did not have the bridles cinched tight (hard enough) to prevent movement. Again, thank you all for your comments and suggestions. They‘re greatly appreciated!

George