America’s Cup

Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,679
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
After a few days of New Zealand COVID delays the America’s Cup match will start this coming Wednesday (just after 10 PM Tuesday night Eastern).

In the US it looks like NBC SN will carry the first day on a tape delay, starting at 11:30 EST. Outside the US (or with offshore VPN) coverage should be live from 36th America's Cup presented by PRADA.

They’ll skip Thursday, then continue 2 races per day until someone wins 7.
 
jibes138

jibes138

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Jan 27, 2008
3,086
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
I just watched the first race on youtube. New Zealand blew away the Italian boat. The Distance between the boats at one point was over 1300M so a 3/4 mile lead. It was an embarrassment for the Italians. New Zealand has some kind of magic sauce to get the kind of speed they displayed. The announcers at one point noted no gain on a leg and suggested NZ was sandbagging so as not to show too much too soon.
 
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Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

.
May 17, 2004
5,679
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
jibes138 said:
I just watched the first race on youtube. New Zealand blew away the Italian boat. The Distance between the boats at one point was over 1300M so a 3/4 mile lead. It was an embarrassment for the Italians. New Zealand has some kind of magic sauce to get the kind of speed they displayed. The announcers at one point noted no gain on a leg and suggested NZ was sandbagging so as not to show too much too soon.
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Racing hasn’t started yet. I presume you saw one of the races from the Americas Cup World Series in December.

Italy has made significant speed gains since then. New Zealand presumably has too, but the relative gains are an unknown at this point. New Zealand is favored, but until we see the latest versions of the boats face to face it’s hard to say what will happen.
 
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Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

.
May 17, 2004
5,679
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
That was pretty good. Very even boat speed in both races. The boat in the lead has an edge in being able to control the course, but neither boat is fast enough to extend hundreds of meters at a time. Should be more good races to come.

Looking forward to day 2 on Thursday night.
 
Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,679
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Nearly half way through the match now. The series itself is very competitive, tied at 3-3. The boats seem quite evenly matched. New Zealand is definitely a faster boat in a straight line, but their VMG is sometimes less. Seems like neither boat has enough speed to overcome wind shadows and pass the other. When New Zealand is ahead they can extend significantly. When Italy is ahead they are able to hold on. The starts and first tacks have made all the difference, so the rest of the races haven't been too exciting, but I'm captivated by the series at a macro scale.
 
danstanford

danstanford

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Aug 2, 2010
528
J-Boat J/88 Cobourg
It seems that the only way to lose is to make a mistake. It is impressive how well the the teams are sailing in what seems to be challenging conditions. We virtually never see a mistake once they get going when today there was always a chance of falling off the foils if you got something wrong.
I wouldn't mind seeing some passing but not at the expense of the excellence they are displaying.
 
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higgs

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,710
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
Watching four of the first six races it seems like the race is really over at the start.
 
Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,679
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
higgs said:
Watching four of the first six races it seems like the race is really over at the start.
Click to expand
Yeah, it’s even more severe than the round robins where there actually were lead changes. The dirty air thrown by these boats puts the trailing boat at such a huge disadvantage, and sailing downwind at higher VMG than true wind speed means the back boat can’t cast a wind shadow on the leader.

Hopefully now that the NZ COVID restrictions are reduced they’ll be able to use the more inshore courses with more wind shifts. Maybe that’ll foster more lead changes.

If they use this same class for the next Cup it’ll be interesting to see if they’re able to make any tweaks to fix the problem.
 
Michael Davis

Michael Davis

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Jan 5, 2017
2,390
Beneteau First 38 Lyall Harbour Saturna Island
To me the problem with match racing is that if you win the start you have complete control of the coarse. Imagine fleet racing in those boats, six or eight on the coarse at once. Or would that be too much like Demolition Derby?
 
DArcy

DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,769
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
Michael Davis said:
Or would that be too much like Demolition Derby?
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Yes, it probably would. They seem to be a lot more cautious about mixing it up than in the old and slow days. For good reason, a collision at those speeds would be disastrous. It's not the most exciting sailing on the course, other than the speed.
My favorite part part is certainly the start. After that, the Kiwis seem to have a slight speed advantage but not enough to pass. The only way anyone can pass is by an error on the opposing team. The Kiwis seem to sail a more conservative race once they get a bit of space, relying on boat speed. The first race was very interesting with the Italians trying to force an error or draw a penalty right off the start. It was almost as though they were feeling out the competition, looking for cracks.
I thought the Kiwi start for day 3 race 2 was brilliant. They went high which gave them more options in the light wind, the Italian boat wasn't able to climb up to the start line when the wind went light. In these AC75s, reaching off builds speed and wind quickly.
 
Michael Davis

Michael Davis

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Jan 5, 2017
2,390
Beneteau First 38 Lyall Harbour Saturna Island
DArcy said:
I thought the Kiwi start for day 3 race 2 was brilliant.
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Yes, and it was the first race that they sailed a shorter distance than Luna Rosa, fewer tacks and gybes and were constantly quicker.
 
Michael Davis

Michael Davis

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Jan 5, 2017
2,390
Beneteau First 38 Lyall Harbour Saturna Island
6 to 3 for New Zealand. Nice to see some passing and some tactical mistakes making lead changes possible. Those black holes with no wind must be very frustrating. May wrap up tonight.
 
jssailem

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,143
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
At that level it is seems to be all about the mistakes. There were some of the Parda Cup races that had tacking duels and speed variations leading to what appeared to be more competitive entertainment.

There is so much money and technology in the boats, that it feels like you watch to see a train wreck.

Did they ever identify why the USA boat crashed? Was it a technical failure?
 
DArcy

DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,769
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
jssailem said:
At that level it is seems to be all about the mistakes.
Click to expand
Not so different from club level racing. In fact it was really interesting to listen to the onboard communications, really similar to some of the discussions we have on our Tuesday night beer can races. The level of skill is way beyond anything I have experienced personally, but the general concepts are not so different. The technology is astounding, certainly not somethin any of us will ever experience personally. Like comparing an F1 car to my Toyota. I'm not looking for a train wreck personally, but I really did enjoy the lead changes. Before that I was mostly interested in the starts.
 
jssailem

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,143
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
DArcy said:
The technology is astounding, certainly not somethin any of us will ever experience personally.
Click to expand
Last December I visited Key West. They had a replica of "America II" on the dock. The crew were selling rides on her.
IMG_1069.jpg

In San Diego you can book a cruise on Stars and Stripes.
www.sailusa11.com

Sailing San Diego Bay | Stars & Stripes USA-11 Sailing

Stars & Stripes USA-11 offers sailing tours, private sailing charters & team-building activities on an authentic America's Cup racing yacht in San Diego bay.
www.sailusa11.com www.sailusa11.com

Do you think there will be a time when these high tech speed demons, sailing multiple times faster then the wind, will be sporting rides in San Francisco Bay?
 
Michael Davis

Michael Davis

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Jan 5, 2017
2,390
Beneteau First 38 Lyall Harbour Saturna Island
jssailem said:
Did they ever identify why the USA boat crashed? Was it a technical failure?
Click to expand
I heard it was a wind gust at an inappropriate time but who knows. I believe you may get a chance to sail on one of these new boats in a few years. There are 12metre boats all over the place that you can hire a ride on these days.
 
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jssailem

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,143
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
The video of the event talked about a problem with a stay, saying the main could not be released. They talked about the maneuver after the gate as being a dangerous maneuver. The gust appeared to amplify the event. Then with the mainsail not releasing it was all over is a second.

I admired all the boats that came to rescue. Never had that sort of support on dinghy races in San Diego Bay. :(
 
PaulK

PaulK

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Dec 1, 2009
1,408
Sabre 402 Southport, CT
jssailem said:
I admired all the boats that came to rescue. Never had that sort of support on dinghy races in San Diego Bay. :(
Click to expand
Talk Larry into paying for support boats on the Bay for non AC events. He's bound to leap at the chance.
 
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