Americas Cup

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higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,710
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
As I understand it:

1. The vessel type has not yet been established yet both teams have developed multi million dollar cats to cover themselves.

2. There will be only one challenger

3. It is legal to use diesel engines to power the hydraulic systems.

4. Computers are trimming the sails
 
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
My take on it

I am no longer going to pay much attention to the "Americas Cup". It is now all about who has the most dollars, the best lawyers and the hottest hired guns. These guys have basically nothing to do with the boat, or the sailing of the boat. They just sign the checks, and all they want is the bragging rights. The Wednesday night beer can races hold more interest for me.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,196
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Higgs.... the deed of gift allows any qualifying yacht club to challenge the defending club. Oracle challenged Allinghi.... the'll race in february, best 2 out of 3 races on course layouts defined by the deed of gift. There is basically no restriction on yacht design in this format. In 1988, New Zealander Michael Fay's huge, winged monohull challenged San Diego Yacht club after Dennis Conner brought the cup home from Australia. The American's defended with a 60 foot catamaran and kicked their ass.

Larry Ellison has used the same format to bring the cup to San Francisco. At this point, Challenger and Defender will be sailing 90 foot multihull's. Allinghini has a cat, Oracle is currently on a trimaran. Oracle recently unveiled a solid wing sail. If you recall, Stars and Stripes built a winged cat in addition to the conventionally powered model which they ended up using in the DOG match.

As I said, the DOG allows them to enter just about any thing as long as they stay with it once the race series starts.

I think economically, the regatta format which stages many match races among multiple challengers.... and defenders.... is favored by international yacht big wigs and the club that holds the cup. I like that system because it means more racing to watch. Unlike Nice and Easy, I truly enjoy this level of racing.... so his choice is to just not participate or watch... because his opinion is not going to influence me in any way.
 
Oct 29, 2005
2,362
Hunter Marine 326 303 Singapore
when too much technology gets into race, it gets meaningless. might as well put in computerise remote control and remove all crew.
 
Apr 22, 2009
342
Pearson P-31 Quantico
As I understand it: . . .

3. It is legal to use diesel engines to power the hydraulic systems.
I would not say "legal." Rather, a judge ruled that you can use an auxillery power source to run, I think it was sail trim.

I want to see the race and then see if I can use the new rules to bring the cup to Quantico, Virginia.

I have friend with a trawler. We could use his diesel motor to drive a hydraulic system that would beat the snot out of all these guys. I just need to find a another judge to determine that the first judges ruling, in a smuch as it did not prohibit a hydraulic outdrive, will rule that it is fine to use.
 
Oct 14, 2005
2,191
1983 Hunter H34 North East, MD
Higgs...

you mean the "Lawyer's Cup", formerly known as "The America's Cup"?
 

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,710
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
I have heard that Alighini, as deed holder, has limited challenges to only BMW/Oracle.
 
Jan 10, 2009
590
PDQ 32 Deale, MD
Really, there are 3 kinds of racing...

One design. The sailor takes it.

Open class, including AC. It is about technology, not so much ability, because the crews at top-level should be very close. An engineer's race. Being rich helps. We all learn from it.

Bowling. I never understood handycap racing; there are just too many ways to game the system, and I have seen a few.

If I ever get the itch to race again, it will be one-design again. No excuses when you lose. If you don't thing handicap racing, with new laminated sails every year and weekly bottom scrubs is $$ competition, you're nuts.
 
Oct 14, 2005
2,191
1983 Hunter H34 North East, MD
Catsailor...

we watched what we call "checkbook racing" begin at our club a half dozen years ago one one guy got fed up being beaten every week by newer boats and went and bought himself a nice new set of mylar sails. Next thing you know, half the fleet was outfitting with new sails. PRHF ratings began to drop.

Many are now bottom scrubbing before each race. On our boat the water's too cold in the spring to bother and the air temp is not hot enough on early fall morning to want to. We race in spinaker class and usually come in last due to being the smallest cruising boat, but boy do we have fun with the kite when it's up!
 

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
The America's cup has always been about technology and the guys who have the most money. It has had lawyers involved for over a hundred years deciding many issues.
 

Tom

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Sep 25, 2008
73
Lancer 28 T Great Lakes
Remember when

It was those big beautiful over built 12 meter boats? You know, before
the layers & courts. The best crew on the best boat would win.
Thanks Dennis.

Tom
s/v GAIA
 
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Benny

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Sep 27, 2008
1,149
Hunter 320 Tampa, FL
No need to be racing square riggers in this day and age. Let them go all out with the available technology. I respect it is their money and they have the right to use it as they please. I'm going to watch the races as sailing is sailing. I wonder what the sailors of old would have thought of multi speed winches, composite masts, exotic material sails and electronic instruments. Perhaps these races will bring some innovations to sailing that may become standard equipment for cruisers in the future.
 
Jan 10, 2009
590
PDQ 32 Deale, MD
Hey, I was half trying to get folks going.

we watched what we call "checkbook racing" begin at our club a half dozen years ago one one guy got fed up being beaten every week by newer boats and went and bought himself a nice new set of mylar sails. Next thing you know, half the fleet was outfitting with new sails. PRHF ratings began to drop.

Many are now bottom scrubbing before each race. On our boat the water's too cold in the spring to bother and the air temp is not hot enough on early fall morning to want to. We race in spinaker class and usually come in last due to being the smallest cruising boat, but boy do we have fun with the kite when it's up!
Any racing is good that's fun. Everyone should do it a few times, just for the education, even dedicated cruisers.
 
Jun 4, 2004
844
Hunter 28.5 Tolchester, MD
America's Cup Benefits

In the last 30 years the America's Cup technology has benefited production boats, sails and equipment by being a separately funded source of new high tech ideas. Think of all the production boats that benefited from shallower draft wing keels. The sail makers have moved from horizontal panel Dacron Sails to bi-radial and tri-radial and tape drive; Mylar, Kevlar and Spectra and even more high tech sail cloth materials. The multi-speed winches and lightweight high strength, low stretch lines, etc, the list is impressive of what has been spread to recreational sailing and cruising.
 
May 31, 2004
858
Catalina 28 Branford
Anyone who pines for "the good old days" of America's Cup racing has on some rose-colored glasses. Syndicates, lawyers, autocrats and professional sailors (in all but name) have been involved in force since at least the 12 meter days. I know it isn't nice to remember, but in the many years the NYYC held the Cup, they stacked the rules so that was virtually impossible for the Challenger to prevail. And when Australia II showed up in Newport with her winged keel, the howl from NYYC and Dennis Conner about "cheating" was deafening. Never mind that Liberty had bent the rules herself by getting two ratings certificates, allowing her to shift and adjust ballast into different configurations based on the sea conditions expected for that race. Even before the era of the 12's, the Cup was in the hands of millionaire egoists. Check out "Temple to the Wind", a book about the 1903 race, and the NYYC's decision to build the cup defender "Reliance". One of the most chilling and disturbing stories is how the NYYC got Charlie Barr, then the pre-eminent professional racing skipper, to come out of retirement for the race. My point being that the America's Cup has never had anything to do with your average Wednesday night or weekend racer. The technology may eventually trickle down, but the races themselves have always been about rich guys exercising their egos. The current battle between Paul Allen and Ernesto Berterelli is different only in that they have diametrically different ideas about what the Cup should be in the future: Allen seems to want to bring it back to where it was before New Zealand won: races between sydicates of millionaires, symbollically fronted by Yacht Clubs. Berterelli's model seems to be Formula 1 racing: a circuit of races all around the world (but focused in Europe) with teams sponsored by corporations.
 

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
Good points Mike and a great book. I am currently reading it.

Another point was that Charlie Barr was a Scottish immigrant.
 
Oct 14, 2005
2,191
1983 Hunter H34 North East, MD
Mike, you're right...

about the corporate model in F1 racing. For those that don't follow it, the past couple of years have been filled with scandals, espionage, double dealing, favoratism, owner revolts, sudden team ownership changes and driver shuffles--all based on the corporate model of what driver can bring with him how many millions of sponsorship dollars.

Yep, leave the Cup to the rich egotists, I can't even afford the trickle down such as it is!
 

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,710
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
There was a time when I could relate to the A Cup. The 12 meter boats were a high tech version of my boat. Diesel engines to drive systems, computers to trim sails - I can't relate to that. I could care less about the A Cup anymore.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
Personally, I think the Americas Cup should have the rules changed so that the Cup becomes about the sailing, and not about the lawyers or the budgets... Each year they should pick a production boat and that will be the vessel used for both teams—stock and identically outfitted.... and let the team that can coax the best performance out of it win.
 
Dec 4, 2008
264
Other people's boats - Milford, CT
Personally, I think the Americas Cup should have the rules changed so that the Cup becomes about the sailing, and not about the lawyers or the budgets... Each year they should pick a production boat and that will be the vessel used for both teams—stock and identically outfitted.... and let the team that can coax the best performance out of it win.
There are a lot of good match racing regatta's that are exactly that. Try looking at http://www.usmatchracing.com/ for a schedule. In fact the US match champs are being sailed right now.

The America's Cup is what it is.
 
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