America's cup going back to monohull

[Capt Robbie]

How do my fellow sailors feel about the America's cup going back to monohull design with the AC75.

1). Do you think this will be good or bad for the sport?
2). Do you think it will spark more interest due to the fact that monohull are the most common type of sailboats manufactured?
3). Will this bring back match racing as opposed to catamaran drag racing?
4). Will this bring sailing skills back, radical designs, and possible even faster safer boats?
5). How much new technology will filter down to the regular sailing industry?

Will be interesting to see what the challengers and defenders come up with.
Hopefully it doesn't come to who spends the most money and we get to see some really amazing things.

Looking forward to what you all think.

 

[JimInPB]

I'm a fan of going back to mono designs. I think that it is a step in the right direction. It at least pay some homage to the heritage of the sport.

I'm hopeful that foil designs might come out of this that would be applicable to a lot of existing boats as a retrofit. I think that retractable/deployable external foils are a largely untapped design concept that could play well to a wide audience.

 

[Capt Robbie]

I agree that there's something magical about the heritage of the monohull design.

When I was younger in the mid 80's I was fortunate enough to get a personal tour on one of the US 12 meters in Newport RI that was in the running to defend the cup.

A few years ago I got the opportunity to actually crew on one of the old 12 meters. I new one of the team crew members that got me on the boat for one of the races. That was an awesome experience that I will never forget. After the race was over the skipper let me take the helm while we headed back to port. Although we weren't racing anymore it was still an adrenaline rush! Those old 12 meters just slip through the water so gracefully, nothing on earth like it.

What an amazing job the crew has to go sailing all day.

 

[Benny17441]

Sorry, all I see in development as mono hulls is just a cheaper version of the current drag racers. The use of foils to get the hull out of the water negates any distinction between mono hulls and catamarans. For any contest to be interesting the results have to be close, if the boats are that fast any luck in catching some wind or the result of a small mistake can decide a race well in advance of the finish line then the interest is lost. I was in San Francisco for one of the races and I was very impressed by the speed of the boats but the competition was lack luster. Boat handling ability looked sloppy; the crew seemed more to be hanging on than sailing the boat. Sailing was never a spectator sport but TV coverage and commentaries made it one. The ways to enhance the sport is by improving TV coverage and the competition. Make the sailors and not the boats the stars of the show.

 

[Michael Davis]

Make the sailors and not the boats the stars of the show

That's what I like about the Volvo Ocean Race. One design, same sets of sails. It's all about the sailors.

 

[Rick486]

Yawn. In my view the AC is gone forever as a one design sailing event for sportsmen.

 

[Joe]

They killed it when the event was taken out of the home country and held in Bermuda.... Tell me that wasn't political. If anyone can spark some life back into it... the kiwi's can... at least there will be a lot of spectators and proper TV coverage.
The Kiwi's want to put the sailor back into sailing... yet they were the one's with the bicycle powered hydraulic winches....
At first, the foiling multi hull concept was fun to watch in a stadium environment like San Diego and SF bays... but after you got used to seeing the boat technology... the races were over so fast there was little else to enjoy.

My opinion to improve the America's cup is to downsize the boats to Aussie 18 foot skiffs and make it an open competition.... three man teams on the wildest boats, regatta style.

 

[The Shadow Knows]

Being a traditionalist, I was abit disappointed & unprepared to watch
crews wearing crash helmets while riding bicycles.

On the other hand, it was exciting to watch these boats fly at high speeds.
The races were great for spectators to watch up close while sipping on spirits.
I thus feel that the Cup should have two classes of boats. One high performance & one
for traditional mono/catamaran boats.

I would bring the traditional race course closer to shore for spectators & maybe shortening the course.
This would serve for more televised events & be lucrative for advertisers & TV stations both.

Be it new-style or traditional, all interested parties would be served.
And, we'd get to watch more races.

 

[DougM]

I was a big fan of cup racing until the transition to hot rod catamarans.
Personally, I think much more interest would be generated, at least in the sailing community, by a return to more traditional monohull design. A rule set would need to be created which would allow for design innovation that could eventually benefit one design and cruising sailers without breaking the bank.
The cup has always been a contest dominated by competitors with access to buckets of money, and a mentality of “he who has the most money wins”.
I have had the opportunity to sail on an older cup racer, and had a great time. I could never picture myself attempting to sail one of the current dragsters.

 

[Will Gilmore]

We all seem to be forgetting the history of the Cup. It all started out as an English race in England with the queen as a spectator (spectator sport). The America was a guest given a position in the race as a courtesy. The English didn't think she stood a chance. There was no one design, no rules about sail or draft or hull.
When the America won, the queen asked, "Who is in second?" The answer was, "There is no second, my queen." Because the America was so far ahead. After that, the trophy became known as the America's Cup and the only rule was, you raced where the cup was, and you had to sail your entry to it from your home port (That's why the Cup was so hard to take from the Americans).

The multi-hull racers have had a positive impact on sailing and those giant hulls reaching high in the air are exciting to watch. I'm a mono-hull fan because I'm a cruiser and I like the space layout and the price. There are some great multi-hulled cruisers out there because of the AC.

I can't see foils, unless they are completely retractable, as a practice cruising option, but for AC racing, it should just have to sail from their home port to the race and be competitive. Why not let foil and multi-hull race against each other? What the sport needs is an "upset" victory like the Perth win that took the cup out of American waters for the first time. Or, some seriously ridiculous controversy like the use of a keel wing, that no one thought would work, taking the cup from those who thought they deserved a fighting chance.

I certainly wouldn't like to watch a Super Bowl style event. I know others would though.

- Will (JMHO, Dragonfly)

 

[Scott T-Bird]

When national pride was involved, America's Cup was king in sailing. It didn't really matter that it was the rich guys always upping the ante, nationalism still made it relevant and there was continuity. The event was every 4 years, the boats were recognizable, and the yacht club that won the previous event hosted the next event. It just so happened to be New York Yacht Club hosting in Newport RI for about 100 years continuously. Naturally, there was a lot of national pride at stake and drama when Newport finally yielded to Perth, Australia.
Now, it is all about the richest corporate CEO's feeding their ego. It always was, but nationalism and tradition kept that fact hidden. Now that nationalism and tradition has been thrown out, there is nothing left on display except the ego and the corporate symbols. When Ted Turner captained his yachts, we looked at him as a sailor who wore his nationalist sympathy on his sleeve, not as a rich corporatist, orchestrating the event to serve his ego. What's your view of Larry Ellison?
The boats are a factor, and I'd admit that there was a lot of excitement in San Francisco. But the nature of the boats really is immaterial to this discussion. It's the tradition that is lacking and the reason why there is so little interest.

 

[Rick D]

Well, from observation, the foiling cats brought (bring) a lot more non-sailing and even non-boating people into the pool of interested followers. That may or may not have been intended. Same for the video enhancements. I don't see any return to tradition having the same result as this sort-of stadium racing. Whether I relate to it is immaterial.
I don't believe the return from two hulls to one makes much difference. It's still a wing sail foiling craft and I don't see that populating our waters any time soon. They are still Gran Prix racers and that's fine. I do think the nationality requirements and direct-human powered rig (if I understood the rules) could be adding some substance. But, as can be seen on the thread, opinions differ.

 

[Jackdaw]

The new rule will I think be good for the game. The pure foiling cats got too far from what 99% of people think of when someone says 'sailing'

Most of this discussed last month.

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/the-new-ac-boat.188975

 

[Pirate Dave]

Bring back the monohulls. The cats are like watching go carts race. To prove my point go watch the documentary where Ted Turner defends the cup. Great footage onboard the boat with Gary Jobson and Robbie Doyle on board. Love it when the NYYC is forced to let Turner be the defender, even after North and Hood sails refused to sell him new sails. Robbie ends up recutting them and Doyle Sails is started

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Well, from observation, the foiling cats brought (bring) a lot more non-sailing and even non-boating people into the pool of interested followers. That may or may not have been intended. Same for the video enhancements. I don't see any return to tradition having the same result as this sort-of stadium racing. Whether I relate to it is immaterial.

Sailing just isn't a spectator-driven sport. I agree that a spectacle, such as they managed to pull off in San Francisco, is temporarily entertaining to a non-sailing pool of followers. But there has to be something more to maintain interest and without any source of identity, people won't care from one event to the next. Even among sailors, we see a significant lack of interest and I think that is what this thread is about. How do sailors view Americas Cup? It's pretty dismal, I think.
There is a difference between a temporary spectacle and sporting events that become a part of our identity. I haven't thrown a baseball in years, yet, I scarcely live a day when I don't know what the Cubs have done in the past few days, year round. I can't help it. I was born on the north side and there must be something in my blood that draws me to my team. Without conscious thought, I seek out knowledge and information about my team. It's all about identity and affiliation. The players change, and their abilities change all the time. They still play in the same park in the same city. It has been corporate ownership, now it's an ultra-rich real estate family that owns the team. It makes no difference. The owners know who it is that really care, and they are careful not to change the reason why.

 

[JimInPB]

I thus feel that the Cup should have two classes of boats. One high performance & one
for traditional mono/catamaran boats.

I'm very much on board with this idea. When the AC first went to cats, I suggested splitting the race into the Americas Cup & the AC Masters Cat Cup, as sister events. At that time, my idea got no traction. The train had already left the station, so to speak.

 

[AlastairLC]

direct-human powered rig (if I understood the rules) could be adding some substance

According to a recent YouTube vid, the foils are too heavy to be managed by direct human muscle power.

 

[Jackdaw]

I thus feel that the Cup should have two classes of boats. One high performance & one
for traditional mono/catamaran boats.

Thats kinda silly. The AC has always been the pinnacle of the sport, both from a technology and sailors perspective. No way any sailor or sponsor who has aspirations to win the 'Americas Cup' is going to sign up for the J.V. version.

 

[Jackdaw]

Not sure who started it, but now all the major races (AC, Volvo, Clipper, etc) CHARGE host cities to stop there, kinda a tribute to the event for generating local revenue. Indeed, the current AC defender is putting the screws to Auckland right now, but I'm pretty sure that just so they get an OK deal. Its kinda crappy.

The only one that know does not charge is the Vendee Globe, which thankfully is in love with its home host town.

 

[Jackdaw]

Yawn. In my view the AC is gone forever as a one design sailing event for sportsmen.

It never ever was a One Design race.