Alternators

Feb 18, 2022
440
Catalina 36 Port Orchard
Ok so my starter issue is solved. I found a brand new for a buck and some change. Good to go, hopefully it will be here next week. But you didn’t come here for starters.

the alternator I have is well loved. Somebody has been inside it before as well, and their soldering skills were not good. I’m not sure if my alternator is any good or not, I’m in the process of cleaning and rebuilding it at the moment. In saying that, I know my armature is worn pretty good, and my brush pack was adjusted all the way forward so there isn’t much left of them. I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say I’m going to need a new alternator here soon.

I know it was a very short limb.

So where is a good source for an alternator. My electrical is 12v with one starting battery, and 2 6v in series. I will have a charge relay and my battery charger is a Sterling 30a. I’m not looking to spend $500 on a fancy alternator with a phone app and all that, I just want something that will be basic good and reliable. when the time comes to repower Luna with a Yanmar I will look into fancy then.
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,848
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
If you are close to repowering, first consider a Beta over a Yanmar, less expensive to install and less expensive to maintain. But that is another thread.

When repowering the engine companies do not give you much choice, I know this to be the case with Yanmar. You take what they provide or you void the warrantee.

The cheapest option might be to take the alternator to a rebuild shop and have them rebuild it. Or they might have a suitable rebuilt alternator.
 
Feb 18, 2022
440
Catalina 36 Port Orchard
If you are close to repowering, first consider a Beta over a Yanmar, less expensive to install and less expensive to maintain. But that is another thread.

When repowering the engine companies do not give you much choice, I know this to be the case with Yanmar. You take what they provide or you void the warrantee.

The cheapest option might be to take the alternator to a rebuild shop and have them rebuild it. Or they might have a suitable rebuilt alternator.
Repowering is years down the road or when the 5411 gives up the ghost which ever comes first. That being said…

There is no longer a rebuild shop near me. The owner retired back in the 90’s and no one wanted to buy before he closed doors. I used him a few times when I was a teen fixing my cars and truck, but the local auto part stores started offering lifetime warranties for less $$$ than his which was only 6 mo.

So I know there are options for alternators, but I don’t know where. When I Google marine alternators I get oddball cheaply made websites that I’m not sure I trust, or eBay ads, or even Walmart ads claiming to have marine alternators. This is why I am asking you good people where I can find a good replacement. I also already know that automotive alternators are not built heavy enough to be used for charging batteries, they are only good for maintaining.
 
Feb 18, 2022
440
Catalina 36 Port Orchard
I’m hoping this one will work for me. It’s 51 amps and says it’s a direct fit for my engine. But it’s not wired the same.


Since I am building a new control panel and rewiring the engine anyway I don’t much mind the differences in the wiring. By looking I’m guessing the EXC port is the exciter which should be tied to the IGN side of the ignition switch, the voltage sense should be tied to the battery + and then there is the standard high amp battery lead which in my case will go to the charge relay or 12B switch (can’t remember offhand which devise is first, I need to go back to Stu’s schematics).
 
Feb 18, 2022
440
Catalina 36 Port Orchard
Mike, I've suggested this to you before, IIRC:

Electrical Systems 101 Electrical Systems 101
Yes, that was the stuff I was referring to but couldn’t remember off the top of my head while I was typing that all out. I didn’t put that information to memory, because it was in a handy location. When I do start the wiring process, I will be drawing out a schematic as it will help me not have to memorize everything and any future owner know what’s going on when I’m not there.

I still need a new alternator… and as much as I would love a Balmar system my pockets are not that deep at the moment.
 

RoyS

.
Jun 3, 2012
1,742
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
I bought a replacement alternator for my Yanmar (which used to be a Hitachi) from DB Electrical on line. It is an auto parts quality level alternator, no doubt made in China. May not last but was certainly cheap enough. Over the years I have bought cheap replacement alternators for my various ancient cars and never had an issue. My thought is if I run my Yanmar less than 100 hours a year even a cheap alternator should last at least a decade. Not for everyone but works for me.
Just looked up the cost: $72 which included shipping. Operated it all last season without issue. At $72 could have bought a spare.
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,256
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
You have a good shore power charger and if the bulk of your charging is going to be from shore power, then you can easily get by with a less expensive alternator, I think. Your option seems reasonable. If you don't spend a lot of time motoring, you won't be charging off the alternator very much anyway. I'd look at it this way ... the more dependent you are on motoring for battery charging, the more money you will need to spend on a good alternator and external regulator. If you rely more on shore power charging, the less you need an alternator and a stock item with internal regulator should be fine.
 

LloydB

.
Jan 15, 2006
927
Macgregor 22 Silverton
While we're on the subject can someone enlighten me a bit for better understanding. My car has an automotive generator it has been running constantly well over the 100,000 miles that I've driven this PO car while it replaces the nonmarine electricity that has been used. Voiding the warranty doesn't make sense to me because Yanmar does not supply the prop or other attachments that might be connected to the diesel motor. That could be a whole new thread in small print but just asking.
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,321
Catalina 1999 C36 MKII #1787 Coyote Point Marina, CA.
Marine alternators are special, they do not produce sparks that may cause explosion.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,018
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Yes, that was the stuff I was referring to but couldn’t remember off the top of my head while I was typing that all out. I didn’t put that information to memory, because it was in a handy location. When I do start the wiring process, I will be drawing out a schematic as it will help me not have to memorize everything and any future owner know what’s going on when I’m not there.

I still need a new alternator… and as much as I would love a Balmar system my pockets are not that deep at the moment.
Mike, inside that Elec Sys 101 thread are a couple of alternator sources. Just have patience and read thru it all. ASE is one. Also Google or DuckDuckGo Leece Neville.
 
Feb 18, 2022
440
Catalina 36 Port Orchard
While we're on the subject can someone enlighten me a bit for better understanding. My car has an automotive generator it has been running constantly well over the 100,000 miles that I've driven this PO car while it replaces the nonmarine electricity that has been used. Voiding the warranty doesn't make sense to me because Yanmar does not supply the prop or other attachments that might be connected to the diesel motor. That could be a whole new thread in small print but just asking.
So automotive alternators are fairly weak. Yes they produce 200+ amps now, but they are not designed for heavy lifting, so to speak. Any car with an alternator runs off the battery at all times. The alternator keeps the battery topped up at all times. This is in contrast to older vehicles with a generator, where the generator supplied the needed power, and the battery came in as a supplemental source of power. Automotive alternators have a light duty cycle. Marine alternators have a heavy duty cycle, which means they will be called upon to do more work. They will keep your starting battery topped up, just like in a car, but they will also charge the house bank. This creates a lot of heat and is hard on lightly built alternators like those found in cars usually (yes there are some exceptions but those are heavy/severe duty vehicles). So your alternator in your car will last you until the brushes are worn out, so long as you keep a healthy battery in the vehicle and avoid electrical surges from jump starting or battery removal while the engine is running.

Speaking of battery removal while the engine is running… this will kill an alternator in your car or truck, or boat. Now back in the 60’s when your early alternators were regulated by a pair of relays that cycled the field and stator on and off to produce power, you could get away with this. Those relay type regulators were robust and hard to kill. This was a carry over test from the days of generators, where the vehicle WAS powered by the generator, and pulling the battery was a valid test. Let’s fast forward to today. There are 2 main ways an alternator fails usually. The diode pack partially or fully fails, and the regulator fails. When the regulator fails, this is the easiest to test, you never get the normal 14v at the battery, it usually goes to battery voltage (open regulator). A shorted regulator will produce more than 14v and the average alternator can produce over 30v if not regulated. That will fry your electronics. The second most common type of alternator failure is diode failure. This is much harder to detect, as you need to observe the ripple current to determine failure. When the diodes fail the battery becomes the diode, by sacrificing some of its charge to keep the current to the rest of the vehicle DC. Now let’s say you decide to “test” your alternator by pulling the battery cable (or flipping the 12B switch) if your diodes have failed as soon as the circuit to the battery is lost (open) then you introduce AC current to the DC system. To save space and cost most electronics in your expensive car or boat are not hardened against this. You suddenly get -14v where +14v is expected. Basically the same as plugging the battery in backwards. Lastly if you remove the load from an alternator you suddenly get full current flow through the regulator which will cause it’s demise. This full current inrush doesn’t always kill the regulator the first time you do it (yes it can but not always), what it will do is damage the transistors that are working to keep everything happy. This damage makes them weak, unable to handle the rated loads and this will cause more heat, which will cause shorter lifespans. So don’t do it! Car, truck, boat, helicopter, airplane, or whatever you have that uses an alternator DON’T REMOVE THE BATTERY WHILE ITS WORKING.

Marine alternators also have spark arresters built in. It’s not so much of a big on a Diesel engine but critical for a gas engine. In the case of the alternator I removed, the brush area was sealed completely with a gasket preventing fumes from getting in and sparks from getting out. This is the easiest way to prevent sparks.
 
Jan 5, 2017
2,349
Beneteau First 38 Lyall Harbour Saturna Island
Repowering is years down the road or when the 5411 gives up the ghost which ever comes first.

when the time comes, the 5411 (Kubota Z-500) is a real easy rebuild. I opted to have my alternator rebuilt by a local shop, very reasonable cost
 
Feb 18, 2022
440
Catalina 36 Port Orchard
No local shops near me, but I did find one that should work available at my local auto part store made by Wilson. If that doesn’t work there is an online source as well, for the factory type unit.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,703
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
For a C-30 stick with a genuine Leece-Neville. Be careful there are piles of Chinese counterfeit/knock offs that use the same part numbers as Leece-Neville in an effort to try and scam you out of your money..
 
Jun 9, 2008
1,801
- -- -Bayfield
Usually there is some shop that rebuilds alternators, starters and other 12v motors. I've always brought them in and in a few days (if lucky) you will have a better than new product.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,003
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
If you don't spend a lot of time motoring, you won't be charging off the alternator very much anyway.
Over the past 7 years exploring the Salish Sea and Puget Sound, if you focus on getting from marina to intended location, then the iron genny will get a workout. Your time and focus are the factors that come into play. You can get days when the winds will let you sail out of your slip in the South Sound all the way to Canada. Then there are the days, no matter what point of the compass you use the wind is straight on your nose and the currents let you travel faster backwards than forwards.

With your current battery bank as decent 75 amp alternator would generate 35-45 amps of power to recharge your batteries and keep you going. A 4-5 hours charge should bring your batteries back to a state that will allow you to spend a night on the hook. That would be like leaving Seattle and settling in at Port Ludlow to enjoy the sunset and make an early escape the next AM to the San Juans.
 
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Feb 6, 1998
11,703
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I’m hoping this one will work for me. It’s 51 amps and says it’s a direct fit for my engine. But it’s not wired the same.


Since I am building a new control panel and rewiring the engine anyway I don’t much mind the differences in the wiring. By looking I’m guessing the EXC port is the exciter which should be tied to the IGN side of the ignition switch, the voltage sense should be tied to the battery + and then there is the standard high amp battery lead which in my case will go to the charge relay or 12B switch (can’t remember offhand which devise is first, I need to go back to Stu’s schematics).
I don't understand why you would pay that much money for a disposable Chinese alt (you don't even want to know what wholesale cost is on that Chinese alt...when you can buy a far superior genuine 90A Leece-Neville for $206.00
 
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