All is right with one little corner of the world.

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Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
I'm now sure that the engine is running properly and my faith in it is restored. This afternoon, Mike returned from jury selection and his name wasn't one of those pulled out of the hat so he is off the hook and we can do some more sailing this month before he heads back to college.
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
Do you mind if I move my boat over to that corner while you're away? I need a break.
All U Get
 
Dec 8, 2006
1,085
Oday 26 Starr, SC
I sat reading all this ...

I'm now sure
that the engine is running properly and my
faith in it is restored. This afternoon, Mike
returned from jury selection and his name
wasn't one of those pulled out of the hat
so he is off the hook and we can do some
more sailing this month before he heads
back to college.
- - - - - - - - - // - - - - - - - - -

I sat reading all these postings
about engine problems and
somewhere it was suggested that
many great voyages were done
without motors.

And sailing without motors continues
into modern times. Just read about
the long wooden oars to move the boat.

All this from one who claims to
be naval architect? He has limited
his designs in later years to highly
technical vessels.

He has forgotten KISS
- keep it simple stupid.

Here we have a man fully capable
of designing a vessel that could
function under sail or oar. It could
be built using the cold molded method
of construction.

There are several examples of boats
that have done the above. Pardeys first
boat? A Liberty 28 ordered without
motor and sailing the Caribbean for
over 20 years.

A motor is not necessary. Maybe it
would require a step up in sailing
skills and work?

Quibble, Quack, ...

Ed K
 

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Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
A motor is not necessary.
I'm really a powerboater. I just have a boat with sails so I can hang out with a nicer class of people.

Actually, it do enjoy sailing more and the sails are set whenever it's enjoyable. I like running under power nearly as much though and am not one to sit with the rig slatting at under 2 knots.

Sure, there is all sorts of boating I could do without an engine. My double paddle canoe cruises years ago were some of the most enjoyable cruising I've ever done. I could also take up skydiving or just go back to flying. However, after spending most of my professional career with powerboats, I love having a boat that is just as good a powerboat as it is a sailboat and the kind of cruising I like to do is a lot more enjoyable with a good engine.

Right now, my plans center around another trip south. Whether you go inside or outside, that is not a trip you can do without a reliable engine that you use a lot.
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,956
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 28400 Portland OR
Confession Time........

I'm really a powerboater. I just have a boat with sails so I can hang out with a nicer class of people.

Actually, it do enjoy sailing more and the sails are set whenever it's enjoyable. I like running under power nearly as much though and am not one to sit with the rig slatting at under 2 knots.

Sure, there is all sorts of boating I could do without an engine. My double paddle canoe cruises years ago were some of the most enjoyable cruising I've ever done. I could also take up skydiving or just go back to flying. However, after spending most of my professional career with powerboats, I love having a boat that is just as good a powerboat as it is a sailboat and the kind of cruising I like to do is a lot more enjoyable with a good engine.

Right now, my plans center around another trip south. Whether you go inside or outside, that is not a trip you can do without a reliable engine that you use a lot.
Aint it the Truth!
:)
 

Jimm

.
Jan 22, 2008
372
Hunter 33.5 Bodkin Creek - Bodkin YC
I'm now sure that the engine is running properly and my faith in it is restored. This afternoon, Mike returned from jury selection and his name wasn't one of those pulled out of the hat so he is off the hook and we can do some more sailing this month before he heads back to college.
All great news! Hope that means we'll see you on the Chesapeake this Fall........:)
 
Dec 8, 2006
1,085
Oday 26 Starr, SC
diesel engines for sail boats

I'm really a powerboater. I just have a boat with sails so I can hang out with a nicer class of people.

Actually, it do enjoy sailing more and the sails are set whenever it's enjoyable. I like running under power nearly as much though and am not one to sit with the rig slatting at under 2 knots.

Sure, there is all sorts of boating I could do without an engine. My double paddle canoe cruises years ago were some of the most enjoyable cruising I've ever done. I could also take up skydiving or just go back to flying. However, after spending most of my professional career with powerboats, I love having a boat that is just as good a powerboat as it is a sailboat and the kind of cruising I like to do is a lot more enjoyable with a good engine.

Right now, my plans center around another trip south. Whether you go inside or outside, that is not a trip you can do without a reliable engine that you use a lot.
- - - - // - - - -

Sail boat diesel engines? Consider a Beta Marine 20?

details: http://www.betamarinenc.com/bd722_atomic.html

Cost FOB - Arapohoe, North Carolina New $$7800.00

Now all you have to do is get Phil to give you a dollar for every hit you get and you can repower with a new engine!

But you say your boat is 30 years old? Well look here:

http://www.ericgreeneassociates.com/images/Boat_Longevity.pdf

Just posting the above for discussion. But a new engine would allow you to go where?

Ed K


 

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Jan 27, 2008
3,045
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
Shoal, that Beta will cost a lot more than that installed. First the cost of removal, and cleaning the now empty space. Then there is the question of the motor mounts and whether it fits and if modifications are needed. Of course since all kinds of stuff is now accessible you might as well fix it all while the engine is out. Then installation of the new motor and wiring and fuel lines and on and on and..... pretty soon you're up to 20 or 25K. Maybe a young guy like you can do a lot yourself but us old guys all crippled up with arthritis have a hard time crawling around in tiny little spaces in contorted positions.
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
Shoal, that Beta will cost a lot more than that installed.
Isn't it the truth? After four decades in the boat business and six years of major upgrades on my boat, I am convinced that the best rule of thumb for budgeting something like an engine re-power is that the component is 50% of the cost. You'll probably do a bit better than that when the project is done but you had better have access to at least that much money to be sure you can complete the project.

BTW that Beta is not a 20 hp engine in the same way that my 2QM20H is. My current engine produces an honest 20 hp at 2600 RPM.



That Beta is only producing 20 hp at nearly 1000 RPM more and way past the peak of its torque curve. I would really miss the wonderful sound of my heavy, high torque diesel. My 2QM20H is right about at the peak of its torque curve at 2600.



The Beta is producing about 14 hp at the peak of its torque curve and 2600 RPM. I would need to buy a new prop as well, even if I could live with the loss of 6 hp.

I would want the next size Beta which increases the cost. Getting these modern, fast turning, diesels to run at the optimum 80% hp in cruise is hard since they are set up to produce these high horsepowers and high RPM for marketing reasons. The reduction gears to get the prop speeds down into a usable range are not easily available in small sizes except by special order in which case they can cost as much as the engine. I also need a down angle gear which drives the cost even higher.

I'm burning joss sticks to the engine gods that my Yanmar appears to be still running in its prime.
 
Dec 8, 2006
1,085
Oday 26 Starr, SC
Reply to both previous posts

Isn't it the truth? After four decades in the boat business and six years of major upgrades on my boat, I am convinced that the best rule of thumb for budgeting something like an engine re-power is that the component is 50% of the cost. You'll probably do a bit better than that when the project is done but you had better have access to at least that much money to be sure you can complete the project.

BTW that Beta is not a 20 hp engine in the same way that my 2QM20H is. My current engine produces an honest 20 hp at 2600 RPM.



That Beta is only producing 20 hp at nearly 1000 RPM more and way past the peak of its torque curve. I would really miss the wonderful sound of my heavy, high torque diesel. My 2QM20H is right about at the peak of its torque curve at 2600.



The Beta is producing about 14 hp at the peak of its torque curve and 2600 RPM. I would need to buy a new prop as well, even if I could live with the loss of 6 hp.

I would want the next size Beta which increases the cost. Getting these modern, fast turning, diesels to run at the optimum 80% hp in cruise is hard since they are set up to produce these high horsepowers and high RPM for marketing reasons. The reduction gears to get the prop speeds down into a usable range are not easily available in small sizes except by special order in which case they can cost as much as the engine. I also need a down angle gear which drives the cost even higher.

I'm burning joss sticks to the engine gods that my Yanmar appears to be still running in its prime.
- - - -- - -- - // - - - -- - -

Let me reply to both posts. I submitted them
for discussion and Roger gave the reply I was
looking for. He technically tore apart the
Kubota ... That was why I included the site
with the technical details.

As to age? I know that I am several years
older than Roger from his comments.

My boat has an equally ancient Westerbeke 21
(not 21A).

I submitted the comments for discussion
to keep Roger from just throwing away an
otherwise good boat. How about
Greene's article?

And I know of a guy who just spent about
$9,000 on rebuilding his diesel for a 30
foot boat. I believe that he was taken big
time, by the local Yanmar dealer.

Factors causing such is overhead in
maintaining a full service marina and its
service department. And, keeping qualified
and competent mechanics. And then
some marina owners believe that they
deserve that six figure income.

Thanks to Roger, we now know of a couple
of better marinas and mechanics.

As to costs of taking motor out, I figured
that could be done by Roger, assuming he
got a hoist of some kind. And he could
invite us all to the installation party...

In his travels did he ever get a windlass?

Addenda

Cape Cod Oyster

There was an old sea side restaurant that advertised, that if a person could eat their soup of the day and one oyster, the restaurant would award that person by giving them fifty dollars... A man went into the restaurant and asked, "what is the soup of the day? The owner said "it is Clam Chowder". "Clam Chowder" exclaimed the man, "I love Clam Chowder... and Oysters! This is going to be a cinch." So the man asked for the Chowder first. He knew that if he could eat the Chowder, he could easily down one single Oyster. So the owner brought him a big bowl... big... I mean a huge bowl of the Clam Chowder. The man took a bite and thought " This must be the best Clam Chowder I've ever eaten", and he continued to eat until he ate every bit and morsel. He then said to the owner, "I'm pretty full, but I think I still have room for one oyster." in which the owner brought out to him, This was no ordinary oyster, it had to be the mother of all oysters, I am talking about a very, very large Oyster... baseball size. The man gawked at it for a second, then proceeded to swallowed it down... He did so without even batting an eye. "Well," the man said to the owner, rather stuffed, "Looks like I won your fifty bucks." The owner said, "I guess you're right... and you should be very proud... you are the first person to keep 'that' Oyster down today!"







 
Jan 27, 2008
3,045
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
Article was good but all it really did was state the obvious from emperical evidence all around us. I would think a rebuild of Rogers motor would be in the cards before a repower, but since it is raw water cooled the condition of the water jacket would determine remaining life. Any old boat can be restored given enough time and money. Elisabeth Myer did a nice job on Endeavour with about $12Million.
 
Jun 28, 2005
440
Hunter H33 2004 Mumford Cove,CT & Block Island
A newer engine has some advantages in reducing pucker factor.

Cruising the ditch, doesn't involve a lot of sail time, a reliable engine that can push the boat to hull speed can be useful. Newer engines are not raw water cooled, which is desirable when on salt water.

Probably Roger could use a Yanmar 3YM20, it is one of the newer designed diesels, can be had for ~$8k with transmission. It weighs 265lbs versus the 2QM20H's 419lbs.

No doubt it would add peace of mind, so Roger, consult for a month, it will pay for a new engine. That is my 2 cents, (before taxes).
 

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Dec 8, 2006
1,085
Oday 26 Starr, SC
A newer engine has some advantages in reducing pucker factor.

Cruising the ditch, doesn't involve a lot of sail time, a reliable engine that can push the boat to hull speed can be useful. Newer engines are not raw water cooled, which is desirable when on salt water.

Probably Roger could use a Yanmar 3YM20, it is one of the newer designed diesels, can be had for ~$8k with transmission. It weighs 265lbs versus the 2QM20H's 419lbs.

No doubt it would add peace of mind, so Roger, consult for a month, it will pay for a new engine. That is my 2 cents, (before taxes).
- - - - - // - - - --

Sea Casper,

Thank you for input. I would add that
select seller of motor with great care
after seeing what happened to another
guy at my marina.

That is where Roger's comments on his
experience come in handy. Even if you
have to sail 500 miles to the right guys.

And, as I read your post, that means two
less thru hulls.

I sit waiting for more good comments on

As to Roger's thinking that he would sail
south, he wrote of his stop in Washington,
NC but he missed a great piece of history
in Beaufort, NC. What could that be?

http://www.ncmaritimemuseums.com/

In Beaufort it is not obstreperous, but worth
a couple of hours.

Ed K






 
Jun 28, 2005
440
Hunter H33 2004 Mumford Cove,CT & Block Island
- - - - - // - - - --


And, as I read your post, that means two
less thru hulls.
Should be same, 1 for raw water in and 1 for exhaust.

Raw water circulates in heat exchanger, and exits via mixing elbow through exhaust.

Engine has two water pumps, one for raw water and one for engine coolant.

I meant raw water does not circulate in the engine block cooling passages.
 
Last edited:
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
he missed a great piece of history
in Beaufort, NC. What could that be?
I was pretty sure at the time that I would be back and am today. Last time down was a scouting trip and not a once in a lifetime event so I didn't feel like I needed to see everything. The Beaufort anchorage was full to overflowing and I was in a mood to keep moving north.

I'm pretty sure at this point that my current engine has a few more ICW trips left in it. It runs as well as a new engine. This last excitement was just a brain fade on my part. I've been distracted by a lot of non-boating issues recently.

After an adult lifetime spent professionally around boats, I've seen enough problems with new engine installations not to feel that spending all my cash reserve on a repower with one running as well as this one is makes a lot of sense.
 
Dec 8, 2006
1,085
Oday 26 Starr, SC
sculling oar

I was pretty sure at the time that I would be back and am today. Last time down was a scouting trip and not a once in a lifetime event so I didn't feel like I needed to see everything. The Beaufort anchorage was full to overflowing and I was in a mood to keep moving north.

I'm pretty sure at this point that my current engine has a few more ICW trips left in it. It runs as well as a new engine. This last excitement was just a brain fade on my part. I've been distracted by a lot of non-boating issues recently.

After an adult lifetime spent professionally around boats, I've seen enough problems with new engine installations not to feel that spending all my cash reserve on a repower with one running as well as this one is makes a lot of sense.
- - - - - // - - - - -

Have you considered adding 'sculling oar' to your equipment inventory?

http://www.shawandtenney.com/specialty-oars.htm

And from all places, Maine!

As to Beaufort, Towncreek Marina, is one of
those honest mechanic places. Two brothers
run the place. And they had a good restaurant
upstairs.

http://www.towncreekmarina.com/

But you really need not to make the trips solo.

We are waiting for pictures of the coast of Maine
and Nova Scotia? And not just crab and lobster
trap buoys.

Ed K
Little River, South Carolina, USA



 

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