Aeolus - the god of all winds
- Thread starter jon hansen
- Start date
doc, as you may of noticed, i'm a huge fan of the bethwaite clan, and the books frank wrote. i'm a huge student of the wind. i'm hoping to learn more.
it's not just the first chapter doc, in his HPS book the first 12 chapters, 146 pages are about the wind. half the book really.
i've given copies to all that crew for me. i've worn out two copies from all my rereading. i have personal copies on the boats and in my houses. when racing or cruising the crew, team needs to use the same recipe i feel.
we can't see it, the wind but it's the most important component of these wind toys.
it's not just the first chapter doc, in his HPS book the first 12 chapters, 146 pages are about the wind. half the book really.
i've given copies to all that crew for me. i've worn out two copies from all my rereading. i have personal copies on the boats and in my houses. when racing or cruising the crew, team needs to use the same recipe i feel.
we can't see it, the wind but it's the most important component of these wind toys.
capta, my teacher is as real world as one can get. pilot, glider pilot, champion long distance glider pilot, champion RC glider distance flyer, job, flying boat from sydney to tahiti, meteorologist, olympic team meteorologist, champion sailboat racer all over the globe, olympic gold medals, class champion. capta, i respect you the most. i think more than most you would enjoy reading HPS by frank bethwaite. many others will too. and then, start studying his kids , jon
The effect of wind on the surface of the water tells you a lot about currents.
Surface Wind speed is usually defined and measured relative to the ground. To explain whitecaps you have to look at the difference between the speed of the wind and the water at their interface. So you have to account for currents.
WhEn there is a current going in the opposite direction as the wind , white caps appear more prevalent at lower (ground) wind speeds.
The visual difference on the surface of the water can help you find edges of currents, eddies, etc. In tidal waters, where currents are always changing over time, the prevalence of whitecaps and chop tells you where to find favorable currents and gives clues how to minimize or avoid unfavorable currents.
I would bet that Capta (and many other experienced sailors) already glean this information and more from “reading” the water.
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i agree with everything the doc just wrote. reading the surface for current and wind plays huge for tactics, but that's only half of the story
Since boats are in the water and the force of the wind drives them, the difference between air and water velocities are what count. A current can help you sail or hinder you by virtue of its ability to add or subtract from your apparent wind vector. Most of the time a sailor has somewhere to go related to ground position. This makes for some very complex problems to work out.
-Will (Dragonfly)
-Will (Dragonfly)
The wind...only a month away. The boat needs to see water first. Six months in a parking lot over the winter is not right and unfair to my 2nd love. Had to keep my first love warm all winter. Today showed me we’re near...then I heard this on the radio and I’m good to go, wind or no wind. Gonna sail away, sun lights another day.
Come on May!
Come on May!
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Jon, your passion for understanding the weather and the effects on the wind makes for wonderful reading, you express yourself very well and I appreciate the time you take for doing so.
We have been getting alarms from the temperature inversion traveling offshore in depths over a thousand feet. I expect its somewhat due to the surface water moving subject to the wind and the bigger current beneath doing its big current thing. (I need some back-up singers, too)
Doc said "The effect of wind on the surface of the water tells you a lot about currents.
how to minimize or avoid unfavorable current."
before the start of any race i will sail past a line buoy and throw an apple in the water then sail out and back to read any current affecting the race. apples have no windage.
i'll try and steer this thread back to the original concept understanding the wind
we can't see it, we can feel it, it powers our toys.
understanding what the drag of the surface as the wind passes by. this is where our sails are. this is the wind we power up with. this area where pilots, find, what they call ground affects.
as the wind increases the ground affects start getting washed out. the way we set are sails changes. wind is linear, wind is swirly, wind tumbles as it interacts with the surface. sails give lift but also give drag. drag's a loser.
how to minimize or avoid unfavorable current."
before the start of any race i will sail past a line buoy and throw an apple in the water then sail out and back to read any current affecting the race. apples have no windage.
i'll try and steer this thread back to the original concept
understanding the wind we can't see it, we can feel it, it powers our toys.
understanding what the drag of the surface as the wind passes by. this is where our sails are. this is the wind we power up with. this area where pilots, find, what they call ground affects.
as the wind increases the ground affects start getting washed out. the way we set are sails changes. wind is linear, wind is swirly, wind tumbles as it interacts with the surface. sails give lift but also give drag. drag's a loser.
wind near clouds, wind near shore. warm water/cold water variations. sailing the oscillations, thermal excitations from the sun, channelling winds, and much more ......
some skiers prefer to ease down the middle of the groomed green runs. great!!!
some like the excitement of different pitch on variable terrain while in and out of the glades.
i think the playing the wind options are similar. just fun.
some skiers prefer to ease down the middle of the groomed green runs. great!!!
some like the excitement of different pitch on variable terrain while in and out of the glades.
i think the playing the wind options are similar. just fun.
highs are domes, lows are vortexes ish, lows move along the low pressure trough between the high domes.
i love playing the prefrontal winds that swoop across the great lakes.
i love playing the prefrontal winds that swoop across the great lakes.
in the summer time on northern lake michigan we get hot ssw winds in front of a trough that will be 25 to 30 range off shore coupled with getting far enough out to get away from the summer thermocline, to get these beautiful 12 to 14 ft swells that are just a hoot to frolic in
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ten feet of base, 4 t0 5 ft of champagne powder on top. loads of skiers will struggle, most prolly. but me, that is the best ride down a mountain ever. it's my favorite. floating in the fluff.
....... back in the day
well. for me sailing the the wind are the powder days. every day sailing for me is another powder day.
the wind will funnel between two ridges on land. the wind will funnel between inverted ridges created by the next layer of air in the atmosphere. the layes of atmosphere are very rugged. but you can't see air. but there are signs to read that show us the different winds to be found on deck.
....... back in the day
well. for me sailing the the wind are the powder days. every day sailing for me is another powder day.
the wind will funnel between two ridges on land. the wind will funnel between inverted ridges created by the next layer of air in the atmosphere. the layes of atmosphere are very rugged. but you can't see air. but there are signs to read that show us the different winds to be found on deck.
between atmospheres there are wind waves. they can and usually do affect the wind on the deck. the drag of the deck affects the air we sail in.
all the low clouds affect the wind speed on the deck. up and down with the puffs and lulls. up and down with the hourly patterns, working the highs and the lows. oscillating patterns can be noted.
the master sailor need to keep "his head out of the boat" ...... you can feel the sail/rig working, .... you can feel the hull ...
the master sailor need to keep "his head out of the boat" ...... you can feel the sail/rig working, .... you can feel the hull ...
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100 years ago, pre electronics, commercial sailing captains were all their own wind forecaster. time was money, finding the best winds meant more money. they read the sky. they kept wind records and share with each other. they sailed the waters and wind efficiently. barometers were high tech.
Jon, have you ever read Joseph Conrad's 'Typhoon'? One of my favorite stories. About and old captain sailing a group of Chinese workers home from India with a fresh young academy graduate onboard as his first officer. They have an disagreement about how to respond to the new fangled weather predicting tools that call for a big typhoon approaching.
One of the fundamental paradoxes in social evolution. What do you do when you have to justify your actions to a group who doesn't understand what you do?
-Will (Dragonfly)