Where can I find the entire ABYC standards either in hard copy or posted on the net somewhere? I have been asked to checkout a boat(65 ft ketch) for a friend and I would like to at least have read/looked through the standards as the boat has just undergone a major refit including electical and mechanical. It has been surveyed but I would still like to find and read through the standards.
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Tell your friend to hire a surveyor
ABYC does not publish standards for free. You can buy them, but unless you're a surveyor who'd need them on an ongoing basis, the cost to do so would not be justified. The entire set costs far more than the price of a survey. But there's an even better reason to hire a surveyor: not only are GOOD surveyors thoroughly grounded in, not only ABYC standards, but UL, NFPA, CG and other marine standards, but experienced ones are aware of known issues on makes/models/years of almost every boat, and therefore know where to poke and prod for things that aren't covered by any standards. In fact, I've yet to know of a survey by a truly competent and EXPERIENCED surveyor that didn't find enough that needed correction--at the seller's expense--to at least cover the cost the survey. It takes years of training and experience to become a competent surveyor. Even if you bought the complete set of standards, you couldn't possibly learn enough by just reading 'em to know what MUST be corrected and what prob'ly oughta be, but isn't critical. At best, you MIGHT learn just barely enough to be dangerous--and possibly discourage your friend from buying a boat he should have bought.
ABYC does not publish standards for free. You can buy them, but unless you're a surveyor who'd need them on an ongoing basis, the cost to do so would not be justified. The entire set costs far more than the price of a survey. But there's an even better reason to hire a surveyor: not only are GOOD surveyors thoroughly grounded in, not only ABYC standards, but UL, NFPA, CG and other marine standards, but experienced ones are aware of known issues on makes/models/years of almost every boat, and therefore know where to poke and prod for things that aren't covered by any standards. In fact, I've yet to know of a survey by a truly competent and EXPERIENCED surveyor that didn't find enough that needed correction--at the seller's expense--to at least cover the cost the survey. It takes years of training and experience to become a competent surveyor. Even if you bought the complete set of standards, you couldn't possibly learn enough by just reading 'em to know what MUST be corrected and what prob'ly oughta be, but isn't critical. At best, you MIGHT learn just barely enough to be dangerous--and possibly discourage your friend from buying a boat he should have bought.
Here's some of the electrical specs...
I think you have to buy the full specs from ABYC. The link below should take you to part of the electrical specs from a manufacturers website. As you can see they get VERY detailed (and that's just the electrical section!) http://www.bluesea.com/abyc.htm
I think you have to buy the full specs from ABYC. The link below should take you to part of the electrical specs from a manufacturers website. As you can see they get VERY detailed (and that's just the electrical section!) http://www.bluesea.com/abyc.htm
General Spec...Tabber sheets...
Hello... http://www.abycinc.org/Publication/Publications/complian.htm ... http://www.nmma.org/index.asp?bhcp=1 ... http://www.sname.org/ ... SH.
Hello... http://www.abycinc.org/Publication/Publications/complian.htm ... http://www.nmma.org/index.asp?bhcp=1 ... http://www.sname.org/ ... SH.
Thanks
Thanks for the quick responces. Peggie.... The boat had a survey before the work began, survey during the refit and now is on the hard again for a third survey prior to selling. I know my limitations and I use and respect the word of profesional surveyors, but I still like to be informed. Miles. This was the link that I remember being posted awhile back and could not find in the archives but did not think to look under bluesea....Thanks Mark Price S/V Wendy Lee
Thanks for the quick responces. Peggie.... The boat had a survey before the work began, survey during the refit and now is on the hard again for a third survey prior to selling. I know my limitations and I use and respect the word of profesional surveyors, but I still like to be informed. Miles. This was the link that I remember being posted awhile back and could not find in the archives but did not think to look under bluesea....Thanks Mark Price S/V Wendy Lee
Who's paying for the surveyr--seller or buyer
Hopefully, it's the buyer...'cuz a seller's survey isn't worth a nickel, much less the cost of the survey. There's only one reason for an owner to hire a surveyor: to make sure that repairs and/or refitting are done to standards for his OWN satisfaction and peace of mind...never in preparation to sell a boat. The whole purpose of a prepurchase survey is for the buyer's benefit...'cuz it's the buyer who'll be stuck with any problems the boat may have. The only thing the seller will be "stuck with" after the sale is the buyer's money. Therefore, since the surveyor works for the person who hires him/her, the buyer should hire his own surveyor. So if he's doing the work to satisfy a buyer's surveyor, butt out and let the buyer rely on the surveyor's competence or lack of it. If he's doing it for himself, he seems to have a competent surveyor, and you won't learn enough just by reading the standards to second-guess him. If he's doing it prior to putting the boat on the market, it's good that he wants to make sure everything is done right--but again...he seems to have a competent surveyor and it's unlikely you can learn enough by reading to standards to second guess him.
Hopefully, it's the buyer...'cuz a seller's survey isn't worth a nickel, much less the cost of the survey. There's only one reason for an owner to hire a surveyor: to make sure that repairs and/or refitting are done to standards for his OWN satisfaction and peace of mind...never in preparation to sell a boat. The whole purpose of a prepurchase survey is for the buyer's benefit...'cuz it's the buyer who'll be stuck with any problems the boat may have. The only thing the seller will be "stuck with" after the sale is the buyer's money. Therefore, since the surveyor works for the person who hires him/her, the buyer should hire his own surveyor. So if he's doing the work to satisfy a buyer's surveyor, butt out and let the buyer rely on the surveyor's competence or lack of it. If he's doing it for himself, he seems to have a competent surveyor, and you won't learn enough just by reading the standards to second-guess him. If he's doing it prior to putting the boat on the market, it's good that he wants to make sure everything is done right--but again...he seems to have a competent surveyor and it's unlikely you can learn enough by reading to standards to second guess him.
NFPA Pleasure and Commercial Motor Craft,
For electrical items NFPA does a really elcellent job. Because they also produce the National Electrical Code they are really knowledgeable about electrical items. This is a link to purchase the 1998 edition but I think it is revised every three years so I'm puzzeled why this is on their web site - so maybe they don't have a newer one? http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/product.asp?pid=30298&src=nfpa&MSCSProfile=95385A1F52DEA1A229D5B375420544648052E7FC8E62FC4116B24D115A30D1CBFD76CF9B96F06B117E4637935BD27E732CF52194FFCE844B89ED19E75D5058A8955A02C7A475164AE95BD5DB508F0843252098586C73A23AB4F782A1AA49E9EF4A6C3C6CC6B7B6D616CCADB8609827162273AFBD42086E3462A2EE18CD31D9F1DD839B3D0BADB1E8&cookie%5Ftest=1
For electrical items NFPA does a really elcellent job. Because they also produce the National Electrical Code they are really knowledgeable about electrical items. This is a link to purchase the 1998 edition but I think it is revised every three years so I'm puzzeled why this is on their web site - so maybe they don't have a newer one? http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/product.asp?pid=30298&src=nfpa&MSCSProfile=95385A1F52DEA1A229D5B375420544648052E7FC8E62FC4116B24D115A30D1CBFD76CF9B96F06B117E4637935BD27E732CF52194FFCE844B89ED19E75D5058A8955A02C7A475164AE95BD5DB508F0843252098586C73A23AB4F782A1AA49E9EF4A6C3C6CC6B7B6D616CCADB8609827162273AFBD42086E3462A2EE18CD31D9F1DD839B3D0BADB1E8&cookie%5Ftest=1
John, NFPA and UL marine standards
aren't quite the same as the standards for building wiring. One difference that comes to mind off the top of my head is acceptable wire types for marine applications. Another has to do with splices and connections--for instance, caps are a no-no on boats. So be careful not to apply the wrong standards...'cuz faulty electrical wiring is the #1 cause of boat fires.
aren't quite the same as the standards for building wiring. One difference that comes to mind off the top of my head is acceptable wire types for marine applications. Another has to do with splices and connections--for instance, caps are a no-no on boats. So be careful not to apply the wrong standards...'cuz faulty electrical wiring is the #1 cause of boat fires.
Didn't Intend to Infer Using NEC
After re-reading my post it does look like it could be implied that one use the NEC but that isn't what I meant. What I meant was NFPA is really knowledgeable about electrical items and therefore their other codes, such as the referenced "302 Fire Protection Standard for Pleasure and Commercial Motor Craft", would be more meaningful. If I recall, there is some material in NFPA 302 that covers or is related to electrical. To quote from their web site: "NFPA 302 provides fire prevention and fire extinguishing guidance for pleasure craft and commercial vessels that are less than 300 tons gross. (60 pp., 1998)" Also, people should realize that ABYC doesn't have a "lock" on boat-related codes. Having said that, neither does NFPA have a lock on the electrical code with the NEC. There are many areas in the country that use another electrical code but in my area we use the NEC so that's what I'm familiar with. Also the Navy uses NEC. Peggy is correct, Don't use the NEC for your boat wireing!!! Its for buildings!
After re-reading my post it does look like it could be implied that one use the NEC but that isn't what I meant. What I meant was NFPA is really knowledgeable about electrical items and therefore their other codes, such as the referenced "302 Fire Protection Standard for Pleasure and Commercial Motor Craft", would be more meaningful. If I recall, there is some material in NFPA 302 that covers or is related to electrical. To quote from their web site: "NFPA 302 provides fire prevention and fire extinguishing guidance for pleasure craft and commercial vessels that are less than 300 tons gross. (60 pp., 1998)" Also, people should realize that ABYC doesn't have a "lock" on boat-related codes. Having said that, neither does NFPA have a lock on the electrical code with the NEC. There are many areas in the country that use another electrical code but in my area we use the NEC so that's what I'm familiar with. Also the Navy uses NEC. Peggy is correct, Don't use the NEC for your boat wireing!!! Its for buildings!
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